Hypothetical: What if everyone knew the total cost of the medical care they would need in their lifetime?

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Vic
Positive liberty (such as the "right" to healthcare) is inherently authoritarian, which is evidenced by the fact that you equate freedom with restraint, and become offended when others insist on breaking that restraint. Isaiah Berlin said that what makes positive liberty in a social democracy so dangerously authoritarian was that the state, represented by the majority, would force upon the people a certain way of way because the way that it would choose would be considered the only rational choice. Now what if we don't want your way of life? Tough, right? Kindly don't lecture about freedom anymore, ok?

Ok, your point? By these (correct, imho) standards, no one on earth is free. The debate here is how do we deal with these problems as they exist within our established society. I am unsure myself. Back to the issue at hand, what do you think should be done, if anything, about health care in the US?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Agent11
No.

You have no idea what freedom is, and your idea of a free exchange of ideas is placating the conscience of other sick people who harbor destructive beliefs that would bring back the gilded age.
If you had your way this country would be a democracy in name only. The rich would be the only ones with medical care and there would be no middle class.
Aristocracy.

You are not worth arguing with, because you do not listen. Hopefully life will teach you exactly how wrong you are, but I am not going to try.
/Have fun this thread can kiss my ass

As I said, you're afraid of ideas. You don't even like the thought of somebody thinking differently than you. You're like a child holding your hands over and yours ears, screaming "La la la la la la la I can't hear you." The mere thought of anybody disagreeing with your preconceived notions makes you sick. You're a fascist, and make ME sick.

I also notice you failed to give an exact dollar figure that every human life is worth. Why dodge the question? Afraid you'll be proven a fool? Oh that's right, you've ducked out of this thread before actually discussing the topic, because you're afraid of free thought.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Who hacked Infohawk's account?

I was thinking the same thing.......

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Vic
Positive liberty (such as the "right" to healthcare) is inherently authoritarian, which is evidenced by the fact that you equate freedom with restraint, and become offended when others insist on breaking that restraint. Isaiah Berlin said that what makes positive liberty in a social democracy so dangerously authoritarian was that the state, represented by the majority, would force upon the people a certain way of way because the way that it would choose would be considered the only rational choice. Now what if we don't want your way of life? Tough, right? Kindly don't lecture about freedom anymore, ok?

Ok, your point? By these (correct, imho) standards, no one on earth is free. The debate here is how do we deal with these problems as they exist within our established society. I am unsure myself. Back to the issue at hand, what do you think should be done, if anything, about health care in the US?

Obviously, the minimum amount of coercion yields the maximum amount of freedom.

Agent11's position is not much different than that of a drug warrior, pro-lifer, anti-gay, proselytizing missionary, etc. (though he's probably shocked to hear that). He's looking to force his own personal agenda of what he thinks is best for society, whether we like it or not, because IN HIS OPINION that's the greater good. The whole idea of the "greater good" is an individual opinion, not a common reality. The only way the various greater good fighters can rectify the fact that everyone has a different view of how to achieve the greater good is by fooling themselves into believing that those with widely different views are "evil." Of course, that's a bunch of bullsh!t, but it's what wars are fought over. By confused human beings trying to fix themselves by trying to force everyone else to fix themselves to their liking.

 

[judasmachine]

republican health plan: don't get sick. we've been over this a thousand times.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
republican health plan: don't get sick. we've been over this a thousand times.

How does that contrast with the Democrat's health plan? Isn't that why they're banning smoking?

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: judasmachine
republican health plan: don't get sick. (yeah yeah yeah) we've been over this a thousand times.

How does that contrast with the Democrat's health plan? Isn't that why they're banning smoking?

You're right, neither of the idiots have a plan. Edited to show my true feelings on the subject. Besides man, aren't you the resident libertarian?

 

[Agent11]

Actually the Clintons had a health care plan that would have covered all Americans.

But it was demonized and never passed the republican congress.

Also I always find it odd that people always say 'both parties don't know what they are doing'.
People can make a difference and you would be surprised how many people have views simular to your own, in fact in some areas the local democrat/republican parties are so small that if you just got together with some like minded people you could have a major influence in local matters.

Representative government is only as good as those that choose to get involved, stop bitching and do something.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Agent11
Actually the Clintons had a health care plan that would have covered all Americans.

But it was demonized and never passed the republican congress.

Also I always find it odd that people always say 'both parties don't know what they are doing'.
People can make a difference and you would be surprised how many people have views simular to your own, in fact in some areas the local democrat/republican parties are so small that if you just got together with some like minded people you could have a major influence in local matters.

Representative government is only as good as those that choose to get involved, stop bitching and do something.

LOL! What are you doing here besides bitching? I hardly consider "involvement" being other people's money.

And BTW the Clinton healthcare plan was rejected by the Democratic Congress prior to the '94 election (where the Republicans took over).

 

[Agent11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan

It was in serious trouble before the republicans gained the house, and they killed it.

And as for the bitching, I was referring to the mentality that both parties are useless... Bitching about individual issues is healthy for the system, while the former bitching is harmful for both the system and the individual doing the bitching.

Also, who said anything about other peoples money.
If you would go to your local party with a group of like minded people you can make change for what you consider the better. You and your 'coalition' or 'group' could even effectively run the show.
And if you are successful and your community is the better for it you can move up and or influence higher forms of the party and get more significant things done.

Money is important in politics however on the local level it is not nearly AS important.