Hypothetical War Question

envy me

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Nov 5, 2005
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Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??


 

Polish3d

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Jul 6, 2005
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lol


If a small group of Americans started blowing up the rest of us who were trying to hold together our democracy by voting and such, I bet THOSE FEW would be called terrorists


You are painting an inaccurate parallel that is not equal but favorable to the direction you want the argument to take.

I like how you are attempting to come up with an argument to support the terrorists ... more of the same from you guys.
 

mOeeOm

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2004
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Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.
 

envy me

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Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: Frackal
lol


If a small group of Americans started blowing up the rest of us who were trying to hold together our democracy by voting and such, I bet THOSE FEW would be called terrorists


You are painting an inaccurate parallel that is not equal but favorable to the direction you want the argument to take.

I like how you are attempting to come up with an argument to support the terrorists ... more of the same from you guys.

I'm not supporting terrorist... I'm just trying to make a point to everyone that thinks every muslim in the middle east has a hidden agenda against America. Every country has terrorists, and not all terrorists are muslims. Alot of people don't seem to realize this.

 

envy me

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Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.

So during the war, before Saddam was captured, there were no terrorists in Iraq. And now because there is a different government anyone who opposes it is considered terrorist?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)

And which wars would those be? Certainly not Iraq, since the U.S. Congress passed a resolution authorizing force and the U.N. has no statutory authority (real or imagined) to declare a war "legal" or "illegal."

Nice mental masturbation "hypothetical" question though. I'm sure you'll get lots of moral support in your fantasy however.
 

envy me

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: glenn1
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)

And which wars would those be? Certainly not Iraq, since the U.S. Congress passed a resolution authorizing force and the U.N. has no statutory authority (real or imagined) to declare a war "legal" or "illegal."

Nice mental masturbation "hypothetical" question though. I'm sure you'll get lots of moral support in your fantasy however.

... Say Russian PM annoouces to the world that the US is a terrorist state for any other valid reason...


The reason could be anything, hence hypothetical.
 

mOeeOm

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Dec 27, 2004
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Thats basically the jist of it. Before 9/11 blaming everything on terrorists would have made you look crazy, but now after 9/11 and Iraq the media has painted a portrait that the boogeyman terrorist is behind every corner trying to get you.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
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Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.

So during the war, before Saddam was captured, there were no terrorists in Iraq. And now because there is a different government anyone who opposes it is considered terrorist?

No. Opposition doesn't make you a terrorist. We have pleanty of that in this country. Indiscrimantly targeting and murdering as many civilians as possible makes you a terrorist.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: glenn1
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)

And which wars would those be? Certainly not Iraq, since the U.S. Congress passed a resolution authorizing force and the U.N. has no statutory authority (real or imagined) to declare a war "legal" or "illegal."

Nice mental masturbation "hypothetical" question though. I'm sure you'll get lots of moral support in your fantasy however.

... Say Russian PM annoouces to the world that the US is a terrorist state for any other valid reason...


The reason could be anything, hence hypothetical.

Then Russia would be crushed, there would be no need to take up arms against Russia, they have neither the means or the will to invade America. We have many allies that would defend us if we were attacked by Russia anyway.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.

So during the war, before Saddam was captured, there were no terrorists in Iraq. And now because there is a different government anyone who opposes it is considered terrorist?

No. Opposition doesn't make you a terrorist. We have pleanty of that in this country. Indiscrimantly targeting and murdering as many civilians as possible makes you a terrorist.

 

mOeeOm

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2004
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: glenn1
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)

And which wars would those be? Certainly not Iraq, since the U.S. Congress passed a resolution authorizing force and the U.N. has no statutory authority (real or imagined) to declare a war "legal" or "illegal."

Nice mental masturbation "hypothetical" question though. I'm sure you'll get lots of moral support in your fantasy however.

... Say Russian PM annoouces to the world that the US is a terrorist state for any other valid reason...


The reason could be anything, hence hypothetical.

Then Russia would be crushed, there would be no need to take up arms against Russia, they have neither the means or the will to invade America. We have many allies that would defend us if we were attacked by Russia anyway.

Completely missed the point of the thread? Its a hypothetical world where its a 1v1 fight between Russia and America, and where Russia is equal in power.
 

envy me

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: glenn1
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)

And which wars would those be? Certainly not Iraq, since the U.S. Congress passed a resolution authorizing force and the U.N. has no statutory authority (real or imagined) to declare a war "legal" or "illegal."

Nice mental masturbation "hypothetical" question though. I'm sure you'll get lots of moral support in your fantasy however.

... Say Russian PM annoouces to the world that the US is a terrorist state for any other valid reason...


The reason could be anything, hence hypothetical.

Then Russia would be crushed, there would be no need to take up arms against Russia, they have neither the means or the will to invade America. We have many allies that would defend us if we were attacked by Russia anyway.

They dont have the will.. but they do have the means. You think that America could fend off an attack by Russia right now with all the military recruiting problems they have right now and being stuck in another war?

 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
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Your main goal is to argue that the actions of what we call "insurgents" or "terrorists" in Iraq is morally acceptable, but you fundamentally misunderstand and misrepresent what those actions are in your hypothetical, making it invalid.
 

dmcanally

Member
Oct 25, 2005
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I could care less who is a terrorist. If I ever see foreign military on my street; my SKS and I are going to have a field day.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Completely missed the point of the thread? Its a hypothetical world where its a 1v1 fight between Russia and America, and where Russia is equal in power.

Sure. While we're at it maybe we can get Ireland and Iceland to fight in the undercard for the middleweight class title.
 

envy me

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.

So during the war, before Saddam was captured, there were no terrorists in Iraq. And now because there is a different government anyone who opposes it is considered terrorist?

No. Opposition doesn't make you a terrorist. We have pleanty of that in this country. Indiscrimantly targeting and murdering as many civilians as possible makes you a terrorist.

So by your logic, by defending your country against a foreign invader (killing no civilians, just foreign military) would not make you a terrorist correct?
 

mOeeOm

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2004
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Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.

So during the war, before Saddam was captured, there were no terrorists in Iraq. And now because there is a different government anyone who opposes it is considered terrorist?

No. Opposition doesn't make you a terrorist. We have pleanty of that in this country. Indiscrimantly targeting and murdering as many civilians as possible makes you a terrorist.

So by your logic, by defending your country against a foreign invader (killing no civilians, just foreign military) would not make you a terrorist correct?


Except the media decides that :).
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: Frackal
Your main goal is to argue that the actions of what we call "insurgents" or "terrorists" in Iraq is morally acceptable, but you fundamentally misunderstand and misrepresent what those actions are in your hypothetical, making it invalid.

And one who considers the actions of these "insurgents" or "terrorists" to be acceptable (morally or otherwise) deserves a first-class ticket to the nearest IED in Baghdad.

Some here prefer to call them "freedom fighters", even.
 

envy me

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Frackal
Your main goal is to argue that the actions of what we call "insurgents" or "terrorists" in Iraq is morally acceptable, but you fundamentally misunderstand and misrepresent what those actions are in your hypothetical, making it invalid.

And one who considers the actions of these "insurgents" or "terrorists" to be acceptable (morally or otherwise) deserves a first-class ticket to the nearest IED in Baghdad.

Some here prefer to call them "freedom fighters", even.


Everyone has a right to defend themselves, their family, and their country. And if you don't agree with that I hope someone in your family has enough balls to protect everyone else should anything like that ever happen here.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: envy me
Everyone has a right to defend themselves, their family, and their country. And if you don't agree with that I hope someone in your family has enough balls to protect everyone else should anything like that ever happen here.

Right, so I'll arm up with a few RPGs and a trunk full of IEDs. That'll teach 'em!

Have liberals really gone THAT far off the map?

 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
1
61
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: envy me
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: envy me

Imagine the following hyptothetical situation:

Bush decides to invade Iran.
Russian PM Putin announces to the world that the US is a terrorist state (for engaging in 2 illegal wars)
A war between Russia and America commence.


If american citizens took up arms to defend themselves, their families, and their cities against the Russians, would / should they be considered terrorists/insurgents to the rest of the world??

It depends, if the gov't + the people are fighting Russia then no, it is just the people defending itself. If Russia takes over and claims they want peace, but the people defend themselves, then the media will portray the Americans as terrorists/insurgents.

Its all about if the whole country joins in.

So during the war, before Saddam was captured, there were no terrorists in Iraq. And now because there is a different government anyone who opposes it is considered terrorist?

No. Opposition doesn't make you a terrorist. We have pleanty of that in this country. Indiscrimantly targeting and murdering as many civilians as possible makes you a terrorist.

So by your logic, by defending your country against a foreign invader (killing no civilians, just foreign military) would not make you a terrorist correct?

Against a foreign invader no.

Your descriptions of a Russian invasion are quite different than the situation in Iraq though. (That is where you are going with this right?) If the Russians invaded us and overthrew our democratically elected government and tried to impose new leadership we would have every right to kill as many of them as we could in an effort to get our country back.

But that is a far cry from what is happening in Iraq today.

Iraq was not a democracy. We did not overthrow an elected government. Iraq was a dictatorship that brutalized its people. When given the opportunity to elect their own representatives Iraqis did so... enthusiastically and in tremendous numbers. At this time our presence in Iraq is with the blessing of the new, democratically elected government. With that in mind the terrorists are more akin to your description of the invading Russians as they are attempting, through the use of terror and violence, to thwart the will of the people.

At this point they are fighting against their own coutnry (assuming they are actually Iraqis and not Iranians or Syrians)

 

bdude

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: envy me
Everyone has a right to defend themselves, their family, and their country. And if you don't agree with that I hope someone in your family has enough balls to protect everyone else should anything like that ever happen here.

Right, so I'll arm up with a few RPGs and a trunk full of IEDs. That'll teach 'em!

Have liberals really gone THAT far off the map?

Yes, one person's opinions means that liberals are f'in nuts. :)