Hypothetical- Trump shoots Comey. Reps don't impeach. Trump can't be touched

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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,632
4,685
136
I'd be willing to bet Trump would make a call out to his supporters and have them surround the White House to prevent that very thing.

Its already current policy a sitting President can't be charged with a crime. Even if Republicans grew a pair It would probably take 3-4 weeks for impeachment and removal. Can't arrest until then. Them's the rules.

This is the stupidest thing I have heard in quite some time. Thanks I needed a laugh. Dude you have quite a delusion going on in that head of yours.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
You are just being obtuse.

Comey doesn't and would not have the power to impeach anyone.

The article is about his lawyer saying exactly what I said.

“In no case can he be subpoenaed or indicted,” Rudy Giuliani told Huff Post Sunday, claiming a president’s constitutional powers are that broad. “I don’t know how you can indict while he’s in office. No matter what it is.”

Giuliani said impeachment was the initial remedy for a president’s illegal behavior ― even in the extreme hypothetical case of Trump having shot former FBI Director James Comey to end the Russia investigation rather than just firing him.

If he shot James Comey, he’d be impeached the next day,” Giuliani said. “Impeach him, and then you can do whatever you want to do to him.”

I meant Congress, not Comey. The logic that says he could kill Comey without being indicted holds true for killing Congress as well. And remember this is his reasoning, not mine.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
This is the stupidest thing I have heard in quite some time. Thanks I needed a laugh. Dude you have quite a delusion going on in that head of yours.
I think there are a couple of delusions going on. I think liberals are so much more aware of what a danger Trump is to the nation they are crazy with fear. They are, in short, acting like conservatives, unable to trust that if Trump does anything like the horrors they imagine him doing, he won't get impeached. I think you are right. That's just crazy talking. But there is an additional problem I think you fail for the same reason to see, and that while liberals are reacting like nut cases, their estimation of how dangerous Trump is to the nation is real. He is a demigod and is doing real and long lasting huge damage to the nation. He is actively seeking to destroy the rule of law. The fact that you seem to fail to see this and aren't screaming for his removal at the top of your lungs, just tells me you have a craziness larger than they do. Trump should have never been elected and he needs to be impeached yesterday. Try to understand that liberals aren't trained in the art of genuflection to authority like conservatives are, and cherish the rule of law that protects us from tyrannical psychopaths like Trump.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
Does anybody really believe that he wouldn't be impeached and then prosecuted for murder?
Really?
Imagine the press briefing: In a closed meeting between the president and Mr. Comey an attempt was made on the presidents life. With extraordinary skill and super human agility the president managed to disarm Comey and shoot him with his own gun...blablabla some rethoric liken Erdogan after the coup attempt in Turkey.
SURE yea I can imagine that NO problem but for one fact.. I cant for the life of me see Cadet Bone Spurs handle a gun much less hit anything..
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,632
4,685
136
I meant Congress, not Comey. The logic that says he could kill Comey without being indicted holds true for killing Congress as well. And remember this is his reasoning, not mine.

Well I guess we should all worry that Trump is going to wipe out congress now.

Do you really think this is something that deserves even a minute of thought?

If so you may need to go talk with a professional.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,632
4,685
136
Imagine the press briefing: In a closed meeting between the president and Mr. Comey an attempt was made on the presidents life. With extraordinary skill and super human agility the president managed to disarm Comey and shoot him with his own gun...blablabla some rethoric liken Erdogan after the coup attempt in Turkey.
SURE yea I can imagine that NO problem but for one fact.. I cant for the life of me see Cadet Bone Spurs handle a gun much less hit anything..


OMG, You are loosing it.

Just imagine... Ancient Aliens. :rolleyes:
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
Well I guess we should all worry that Trump is going to wipe out congress now.

Do you really think this is something that deserves even a minute of thought?

If so you may need to go talk with a professional.

Like I said it’s not about what I think is likely, it’s what Trump is claiming he has the power to do.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,634
8,522
136
I have wondered about the system of Presidential pardons and the reliance on impeachment as the only means to deal with law-breaking Presidents.

Could a sitting President either massacre Congress personally (and pardon himself) or have his minions do it, and then pardon them? And then every time a replacement Congress tries to impeach him for it, he could shoot them all again before they get to do it. Would it be constitutionally allowable for this to continue indefinitely? I guess it would be a repeated race as to whether the impeachment process could be completed before the President can reload and shoot everyone again. Once impeached I guess he'd no longer be President and so couldn't pardon himself or his minions and so could be arrested in the normal manner. And he'd eventually reach the end of his term and would be a spot of bother at that point (though with the American electorate in the mood that it seems to be in, who knows?)

Clearly there would be a few practical difficulties, and in reality he'd be arrested or shot, constitutional- or-not but would it be theoretically workable scheme under the strict terms of the Constitution? To me it's more a reducto-ad-absurdum type argument of the Presidential pardon power than about Trump specifically (but Trump does constantly raise questions about the Constitution and how the system is supposed to work...it's like a stress test).
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I'd be willing to bet he would be out of office and arrested immediately.

If an impeachment is required then no. It is a bureaucratic process and the logistics of that take time- a defense and prosecution prepared and so on. He would not be out of office. In the meantime normal legal processes do not apply.

What I think would happen is that there would be a warrant for Trump, he'd be arrested, and he would be indicted independently of any impeachment process. The indictment case would be the subject of an emergency SCOTUS hearing. I think there would be zero support for the idea that the Constitution and Founders intended a Caligula to come to power.

But Trump isn't likely to shoot anyone, note likely because the degree of removal from reality is unprecedented. But Rudy went with an extreme to say "The President can murder someone and is immune from consequences until impeachment, therefore he is immune from lesser crimes or legal actions as well. The President cannot obstruct (btw legal councel selected the wrong law as a basis for that). Self pardon? SCOTUS will say no. No person is above the law. That is something the Founders held dearly.

Trump can be subpoenaed, he can refuse, it goes to the SCOTUS who will be forced to choose between him and the nation. My money is not on Trump.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
This is the stupidest thing I have heard in quite some time. Thanks I needed a laugh. Dude you have quite a delusion going on in that head of yours.
You may think this is funny but Trump has crossed almost all lines of decency and standards. I can easily see him making an appeal to his followers if not literally, figuratively surround him to protect him from justice. Mark my words.

Interesting how you find the fact that I agreed that he is capable problematic but have zero concern that Trump and his people originally suggested it on multiple occasions.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
You say so, but boomerang is the sort who enthusiastically believes every single lie from Trump and Fox News, to the point where he lives in an alternate universe.
Not just him but a large percentage of the population. That's why the country is in trouble.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
136
we've never tried to indict a sitting president so until it happens, but the constitution does not say you can't.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
14,484
146
Does he use a shotgun, pistol or AR-15? The reaction here will be very different depending on what type of firearm is used.

Love and Relationships is that way -> https://forums.anandtech.com/forums/love-and-relationships.32/

We don’t need to hear about what gets you off in P&N.
BLOW5do.png
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
Wonder if Mueller can goto SCOTUS in advance and get an express decision on these questions. Is it constitutional for a sitting POTUS

to be indicted for a crime committed while in office?
to be indicted for a crime committed before taking office?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
From a functional POV Giuliani is correct wrt federal prosecution. Trump can fire anybody who tries to prosecute him at which point they would lack standing in the courts. Former federal prosecutors can't prosecute anybody. The only way around that is removal from office or expiration of the term of office.

"I could shoot somebody" is a metaphor.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
I have wondered about the system of Presidential pardons and the reliance on impeachment as the only means to deal with law-breaking Presidents.

Could a sitting President either massacre Congress personally (and pardon himself) or have his minions do it, and then pardon them? And then every time a replacement Congress tries to impeach him for it, he could shoot them all again before they get to do it. Would it be constitutionally allowable for this to continue indefinitely? I guess it would be a repeated race as to whether the impeachment process could be completed before the President can reload and shoot everyone again. Once impeached I guess he'd no longer be President and so couldn't pardon himself or his minions and so could be arrested in the normal manner. And he'd eventually reach the end of his term and would be a spot of bother at that point (though with the American electorate in the mood that it seems to be in, who knows?)

Clearly there would be a few practical difficulties, and in reality he'd be arrested or shot, constitutional- or-not but would it be theoretically workable scheme under the strict terms of the Constitution? To me it's more a reducto-ad-absurdum type argument of the Presidential pardon power than about Trump specifically (but Trump does constantly raise questions about the Constitution and how the system is supposed to work...it's like a stress test).

It is a somewhat absurd example as I agree the police/military would likely simply refuse his orders. Then again it’s not completely absurd as it’s not like this sort of thing hasn’t happened many times in history.

Regardless, the point was to showcase just how insane the assertion of power here is. Obviously if you can murder the head of the FBI and not be held criminally accountable while in power there’s no law that applies to you other than politics. That’s a mighty scary assertion.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
From a functional POV Giuliani is correct wrt federal prosecution. Trump can fire anybody who tries to prosecute him at which point they would lack standing in the courts. Former federal prosecutors can't prosecute anybody. The only way around that is removal from office or expiration of the term of office.

"I could shoot somebody" is a metaphor.
I guess "grab 'em by the pussy" is also a metaphor?? Have you read Trump's English? He doesn't do metaphors
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
It is a somewhat absurd example as I agree the police/military would likely simply refuse his orders. Then again it’s not completely absurd as it’s not like this sort of thing hasn’t happened many times in history.

Regardless, the point was to showcase just how insane the assertion of power here is. Obviously if you can murder the head of the FBI and not be held criminally accountable while in power there’s no law that applies to you other than politics. That’s a mighty scary assertion.
I don't think they can because until he is removed him giving the orders is legal. Chaos would ensue. Some in the military would follow orders and some wouldn't.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
From a functional POV Giuliani is correct wrt federal prosecution. Trump can fire anybody who tries to prosecute him at which point they would lack standing in the courts. Former federal prosecutors can't prosecute anybody. The only way around that is removal from office or expiration of the term of office.

"I could shoot somebody" is a metaphor.

That is your speculation and has no standing in law. Besides firing an individual does not end a prosecution. The SCOTUS would not go with that any more than NIxon was in his claims of "it's not illegal if the President does it".

While it may have been metaphor you argue that Trump could shoot people every hour until impeached and not suffer legal consequences. Again the SCOTUS has some idea about what the Constitution means and what was intended.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I guess "grab 'em by the pussy" is also a metaphor?? Have you read Trump's English? He doesn't do metaphors

Actually, that too is a metaphor.

Get a grip, OK? The structure of our Constitutional govt is such that Giuliani is correct. It's been that way all along.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Actually, that too is a metaphor.

Get a grip, OK? The structure of our Constitutional govt is such that Giuliani is correct. It's been that way all along.

Said with absolutely no basis in law. Gorsuch alone would rip a new one in Trump and he was appointed by Donnie. Might read up on references that the SCOTUS has used for generations. Do you know that happens and what they are? Perhaps not.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Well I guess we should all worry that Trump is going to wipe out congress now.

Do you really think this is something that deserves even a minute of thought?

If so you may need to go talk with a professional.
Do you agree with the President that he can pardon himself?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
Actually, that too is a metaphor.

Get a grip, OK? The structure of our Constitutional govt is such that Giuliani is correct. It's been that way all along.
Really? You know Trump is being sued for that so called metaphor.