Hypothetical - secession or war?

[Craig234]

Let's say the south wanted to secede from the US. They were willing to go to war to do so. They didn't want war, they wanted to be a peaceful neighbor, but to secede.

Question: if the choices for this issue were to be decided by you in a vote - let them secede, or prevent it by war and preserve the union, which would you choose?

Assume we could know now with confidence the North would eventually win, after heavy casualties on both side - the same percent of the population, 6.5 million people today.

We're so used to looking at the civil war and agreeing - yes, it was nice to preserve the union, the casualties sound less bad when they're in a history book.

 

[dmcowen674]

Let's say the south wanted to secede from the US. They were willing to go to war to do so. They didn't want war, they wanted to be a peaceful neighbor, but to secede.

Question: if the choices for this issue were to be decided by you in a vote - let them secede, or prevent it by war and preserve the union, which would you choose?

No, you do not let the resources of the south leave.

 

[wuliheron]

Lets all join hands and sing kumbaya and then imagine the world as a nicer place where slave owners can rape and whip their slaves all day long.

 

[JSt0rm]

Lets all join hands and sing kumbaya and then imagine the world as a nicer place where slave owners can rape and whip their slaves all day long.

I think he is talking about present day.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

The union must stay.

 

[DominionSeraph]

What are the casualties to just keep Texas?
While they may be Fundie, they at least pay their way. The rest of the South is useless.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let them leave. That should always be an option.

 

[wuliheron]

I think he is talking about present day.

The South couldn't afford to succeed from the union so its a total fantasy. At least before the civil war they had cotton money, but now they've got nothing. The four poorest states in the union per capita are:

Louisiana – $16,912
Arkansas – $16,904
West Virginia – $16,477
Mississippi – $15,853

Its the third world in America and increasingly so with all the illegal immigrants. If the South succeeded most tax paying Yankees would thank them profusely and most tax paying southerns would immigrate north.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The South couldn't afford to succeed from the union so its a total fantasy. At least before the civil war they had cotton money, but now they've got nothing. The four poorest states in the union per capita are:

Louisiana – $16,912
Arkansas – $16,904
West Virginia – $16,477
Mississippi – $15,853

Its the third world in America and increasingly so with all the illegal immigrants. If the South succeeded most tax paying Yankees would thank them profusely and most tax paying southerns would immigrate north.

No state or group of states would be allowed to leave. The Feds would slaughter them first so being able to afford to leave wouldn't matter. To preserve its power there is no price in blood it would not extract. There will never be another revolution.

 

[Freshgeardude]

keep the union. we are stronger as one country.

 

[PrinceofWands]

It was wrong then, it would be wrong now. Fighting secession that is.

EDIT: OMG, I wrote that exactly backwards from what I meant. Sry. Corrected now.

 

[Zebo]

I believe in right to revolution TJ talked about in declaration of Independence. Those conditions would have to be met though.

 

[dali71]

Southern states secede, essentially becoming a red nation.

Northern states keep their blue ideology.

People who want to live off of others migrate North.

People who want to enjoy the fruits of their labor move South.

Hilarity ensues.

 

[Red Dawn]

It depends on which Southern states. The Coastal and GoM States due to their ports would hurt the US if they were to succeed but the inland Southern States succeeding probably wouldn't hurt that much as they have less to offer economically and usually are recipients of much more Fed money than they pay in. In addition, the exodus of people not wishing to succeed from the US would even further exacerbate their already tenuous situation economically

 

[Anarchist420]

The South couldn't afford to succeed from the union so its a total fantasy. At least before the civil war they had cotton money, but now they've got nothing. The four poorest states in the union per capita are:

Louisiana – $16,912
Arkansas – $16,904
West Virginia – $16,477
Mississippi – $15,853

Its the third world in America and increasingly so with all the illegal immigrants. If the South succeeded most tax paying Yankees would thank them profusely and most tax paying southerns would immigrate north.

wrong. Back then the South paid 90% of all monies used to finance federal works projects outside of the South all while unwillingly protecting northern industry.

 

[matt0611]

The union was created by the states, not the other way around. If a state no longer wants to be part of the union it should be free to leave.

I vote for peace.

 

[Sinsear]

Too bad; i thought this would be about California. Well at least we can still hope for SF to fall into the ocean.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I vote for peace.

This, both would be stronger as one country in the long run, but the cost is far too high and forcing someone to stay against their will is undemocratic.

 

[sao123]

The only state we should let seccede is california, then bomb them back to the stone age.

 

[Schadenfroh]

The only state we should let seccede is california, then bomb them back to the stone age.

Better to keep California, let the 10th amendment do its thing and people move in / out of there, then take their money via federal income tax / mandated social welfare programs.

Kinda ironic that the same states that push mandated social welfare programs also complain about money flowing out of their states due to those same programs...

 

[nageov3t]

Southern states secede, essentially becoming a red nation.

Northern states keep their blue ideology.

People who want to live off of others migrate North.

People who want to enjoy the fruits of their labor move South.

Hilarity ensues.

it's funny because it's Southern states that are, by and large, welfare states, sucking federal tax dollars from blue states.

good riddance I say.

 

[Jaskalas]

Let them leave peacefully, but instead of such a terrible thing how about go with the option of enticing them to stay.

Champion state's rights, let this Union of ours be true to its name. If the people who wanted to leave were given more leverage over their lives then they would not feel so repressed to the point of violent confrontation or dramatic separation.

310 million people need their space. The one shoe fits all federal government isn't giving it to them via its expansionist policy of invading every last aspect of our lives. If there is need to act on our civil divisions, it is only because we are being pushed by either side. Stop pushing each other and learn to live together in peace.

 

[MovingTarget]

TBH, I am not sure. Since I am from the South, we likely wouldn't have any choice in the matter about war once secession had been decided. We would not want war, but it most certainly would be thrust upon us in that situation. That worked really well the last time, too. I do believe that we are stronger as a whole, but some Northerners need to pull their head out of their ass when it comes to assumptions about the South and its people today.

 

[wuliheron]

it's funny because it's Southern states that are, by and large, welfare states, sucking federal tax dollars from blue states.

good riddance I say.

Welfare states using illegal Mexicans for labor and complaining about socialism. No doubt they'd legalize Mexican labor and set up something similar to pre-civil war slavery all over again in the name of "free enterprise".

 

[shira]

Let's say the south wanted to secede from the US. They were willing to go to war to do so. They didn't want war, they wanted to be a peaceful neighbor, but to secede.

Question: if the choices for this issue were to be decided by you in a vote - let them secede, or prevent it by war and preserve the union, which would you choose?

Assume we could know now with confidence the North would eventually win, after heavy casualties on both side - the same percent of the population, 6.5 million people today.

We're so used to looking at the civil war and agreeing - yes, it was nice to preserve the union, the casualties sound less bad when they're in a history book.

Let's see:

The policies of the country that remained would no longer be affected by a region that's disproportionately inhabited by right-wing, red-neck, anti-abortion, anti-same-sex marriage, MMCC-denying, fundamentalist Christian, anti-science, gun-toting, tea-partying, homophobic morons.

Hmmmm. Let's pay them to secede.