It's inherently political because it is a debate over a legal issue, and it always belongs in P&N because it is always bitter back and forths with no chance that either said will change their mind.
Every thread is just a provocation, and an excuse for an argument. That is the only outcome of abortion threads.
- Nov 30, 2005
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I'm not going to divulge whether I'm pro-life, pro-choice, or somewhere in the middle, but I do have to say coming from the point of view of someone who is pro-choice (you), your argument is well put and a fair argument.
However, I still must disagree and say that the population I describe is larger than you think.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
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mebbe when it resembles a human, not a chicken? somewhere around the 3rd month. or so ive heard. ive never seen this so-called zygote, so im not even sure it exists.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
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How about we all just let other make their own choices in life and stop trying to impose your views on them?
Or we can go barbaric and just say that the point of conception is delivery. Anytime while it is still in the womans body is ok to abort. I dont like this idea but maybe it will get some people to drop the subject and let other live their own lives.
Or we can go barbaric and just say that the point of conception is delivery. Anytime while it is still in the womans body is ok to abort. I dont like this idea but maybe it will get some people to drop the subject and let other live their own lives.
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
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I completely agree with that idea. Delivery is the moment it is a baby, and at no other time.
Considering how many times does someone get excited they are having a baby, and then in the last few weeks, it dies and is stillborn... a baby is not a guarantee until it is actually born, and from there, other factors take place. If its in the womb, the mother has full control over it imho.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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well, that is what pro-choice people advocate. No one with any rationality supports abortion as simply a method of birth control. This is not the pro-choice stance, and it is despicable that conflicting interests groups lump that sentiment into the pro-choice camp.
The pro-choice is argument is one that advocates freedom of individual choice, First and foremost, and rejects federal attempts to restrict the ability of the individual to make informed, conscious decisions regarding their own, personal health.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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yet..in your own words:
again, care to back up your argument that a fetus/zygote is always human? You continue to dodge this assertion of yours, or you simply forget that you've made this statement.
The problem with many pro-lifers, is they have a nasty habit of misreading scientific data and perverting it to their own needs. This is not a practice acceptable within the scientific community when it comes to peer-reviewed research, and it is not considered appropriate of interests groups to misrepresent published scientific research in a false manner.
If you're still confused, there is no scientific research that shows a fertilized embryo is always human. Making such a statement at this time can only be considered one of personal opinion, or perhaps faith. Yet, you've suggested there is a hard truth that your perspective is the proper one.
....from were do you draw you truth? Do you consider the source of your truth a valid enough source to shape public policy and limit individual freedoms?
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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Amazingly (though not surprisingly), you disregard the intent of my response and ignore the issue that I am addressing with your comment. I guess quoting me out of context is one manner of your attack, a method of confusing the issue and distorting general perception.
Here is your comment that I am responding to:
now, looking at my response that you quoted, how does my response seem relevant in regard to time of life? I'm responding to your confusion over the values of pro choice, versus the perverted interpretation of that issue into one of pro-abortion.
again, learn to read, contextualize, and you might be worthwhile in a debate. You certainly aren't at this point.
so, to re-clarify: There is no pro-abortion opinion; at least not in liberal, pro-choice circles. PRO-CHOICE /= PRO-ABORTION[/b]
Do you honestly think that the majority of women who choose abortions do so happily? That they will continue to abort fetuses because they derive so much pleasure?
You can waste as much time as you want claiming that "so many women use abortion as birth control," without ever backing up this worthless opinion, then responding to calls to present your data with "can't prove a negative, nah nah nah nah boo boo."
Of course, you would probably never realize that claiming such an activity is prevalent and statistically significant puts the burden of proof on you to back up this claim. Otherwise, the argument is invalid and unworthy of debate, much less support for policy.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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1: OP doesn't consider AT the definitive source of general consensus of opinion on abortion
--yet, OP continues to troll
2: met with a volley of descent regarding his trollish behavior, OP claims not enough women have commented, thus negating any attacks against him.
3: OP continues to ignore the fact that he posts on AT (even though he considers the forum irrelevant to his question), while demanding female opinion the only valid one (hey, I agree here)
3a: Repeat: OP posts on AT searching for the FEMALE opinion.
3ab: Repeat: OP posts on AT searching for the FEMALE opinion.
...has anything gotten through?
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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Wait...really? Fine if you've never seen a zygote, but there are plenty of options available to see such a thing. Either way...even though it's common knowledge, part of our consensus of human understood reality, you still doubt its existence?
I'm not even sure you should have an opinion on this issue in the first place, as you clearly aren't educated concerning the issues involved.
Not meant as a personal attack, as I see such admissions frequently; and it's a common concern, I Think, that far too many people invest themselves in sensitive issues even though they remain largely ignorant (quantifiably so) over the actual facts regarding the core of the issue.
- Nov 30, 2005
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Regs
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2002
- 16,666
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Look at it this way, if both were illigal, they'll still do it.
Also:
Roe v. Wade is the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that recognized that a woman has a constitutional right to decide whether to continue her pregnancy. The Court also ruled, however, that after fetal viability (that is, the point at which the fetus is able to live outside the woman?s body, with or without artificial aid), states may restrict abortions or ban them entirely, except when necessary to protect the woman?s life or health.
What people are fighting over now is when a baby is considered a living object. Catholics believe it's the point of conception (penis + vagina + baby batter = screwed). Others believe that killiing something that does not even have heart beat yet, is not killing at all.
Also:
Roe v. Wade is the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that recognized that a woman has a constitutional right to decide whether to continue her pregnancy. The Court also ruled, however, that after fetal viability (that is, the point at which the fetus is able to live outside the woman?s body, with or without artificial aid), states may restrict abortions or ban them entirely, except when necessary to protect the woman?s life or health.
What people are fighting over now is when a baby is considered a living object. Catholics believe it's the point of conception (penis + vagina + baby batter = screwed). Others believe that killiing something that does not even have heart beat yet, is not killing at all.
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