Hypothetical: Pollution from across the Pacific starts killing US citizens. How do you fix it?

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I heard something on the radio the other day about something like 30% of air pollution on the western states comes from countries across the Pacific, in particular China.

For hypothetical purposes lets say China is making 100% of the pollution floating over. Through whatever process they are using for industrial uses or energy production, it has serious health side effects, including death to some people (be it cancer, respiratory problems, etc.).

How could the US handle this? During our industrial revolution we were dumping stuff into the atmosphere, does China get a pass since it's their comeuppance?

As an option, can the US use air strikes to destroy these facilities without it being an act of war? Killing workers and putting millions out of electric power?

I figure even if we were to give them the technologies to produce cleaner emissions, it would be years to implement. Or perhaps they would refuse out of cost. Would the US be willing to bare the cost of paying to upgrade another country's facilities when they are the ones causing the problem?

Or do the west coasters just give up and move inward?

I really can't come up with a solution I would be willing to carry out, good thing I'm not The Great Decider.

 

[Mxylplyx]

We got one big weapon against China, and that is access to our markets. We could live without China's crap, while they on the other hand could not live without selling us their crap. We just start penalizing them through tariff's and trade restrictions until they clean up their act.

 

[theeedude]

What are we doing about the other 70% of pollution? I am in LA now, and the air here stinks.
Oh, yeah, striking another country is an act of war, no matter what reason or excuse you have or think you have.

 

[Kwaipie]

We make the last of the world power communist nations a Most Favored Nation. Regardless of their crimes against humanity and Tibet and selling arms to dangerous nations.

America is Of, By and For The Corporation. The Corporation needs China's workforce.

Pollution Schmollution.

 

[StageLeft]

Attack with a couple hundred thousand troops and then surge when that doesn't work.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
We make the last of the world power communist nations a Most Favored Nation. Regardless of their crimes against humanity and Tibet and selling arms to dangerous nations.

So these arms, are they better quality than the Chinese junk in Walmart? Better than Chinese pet food? Selling dangerous arms to dangerous countries may actually be doing the rest of us a favor.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
We make the last of the world power communist nations a Most Favored Nation. Regardless of their crimes against humanity and Tibet and selling arms to dangerous nations.

So these arms, are they better quality than the Chinese junk in Walmart? Better than Chinese pet food? Selling dangerous arms to dangerous countries may actually be doing the rest of us a favor.

Well supposedly some of these arms are trickling into Iraq by way of Iran so yes it does matter and no it's not doing our troops any favors.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Topic Title: Pollution from across the Pacific starts killing US citizens.

How do you fix it?

You don't. Population control FTW :thumbsup:

 

[The Green Bean]

And then the Americans claim they are a peaceful people. Threats of war for every other petty matter!

 

[piasabird]

We borrow most of our money from China. . . . The Money they make off the interest we pay them fuels their economy. We are polluting ourselves by doing business with China.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
-snip-

How could the US handle this?

-snip-

Easy, purchase some carbon credits from Al Gore's company.



But we already know that any pollution gets into everybody's air. Chernobyl was a good example, radioactive pollution spread around the Northern Hemisphere etc.

We need to "green-up" the planet; trees "eat" CO2.

Fern

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: senseamp
What are we doing about the other 70% of pollution? I am in LA now, and the air here stinks.
Oh, yeah, striking another country is an act of war, no matter what reason or excuse you have or think you have.

Hang on, I thought everyone over there drove only Prius's and used only one sheet of TP.

 

[piasabird]

Lets see we could ask for a tariff against all Chinese goods till they lower their emissions and adopt the same emission standards as Europe and/or the USA. Maybe we should do that with all countries we trade with. Hmm . . . Maybe we would have to stop trading with China, every nation in South America, Thailand, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indo-China, all of Africa, USSR, Slovakia, and a few other countries here and there.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Topic Title: Pollution from across the Pacific starts killing US citizens.

How do you fix it?

You don't. Population control FTW :thumbsup:

*edit

I must have misread what you said... I apologize.

 

[piasabird]

How can we be for lower emissions if we import everything from countries like China???

 

[CycloWizard]

We could fix this the same way we should look at the entire environmental issue: make a global regulation with economic penalties for those who don't meet the regulations.

 

[babylon5]

Americans are doing pretty good job killing ourselves with eating junk food and getting heart attacks.

Who do we bomb to stop it? McDonalds and KFCs?

 

[Oric]

The reason why China seem to be the polluter because Americans EXPORTED all polluting industries to China decades ago. You guys dont produce those stuff in your country because it pollutes too near where you live. Now a sniff of those pollutants irritate you ? Bad luck ... Try blocking out China, where will you buy cheap plastics etc ?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Oric
The reason why China seem to be the polluter because Americans EXPORTED all polluting industries to China decades ago. You guys dont produce those stuff in your country because it pollutes too near where you live. Now a sniff of those pollutants irritate you ? Bad luck ... Try blocking out China, where will you buy cheap plastics etc ?

This is exactly it. Countries couldn't pollute here due to tough standards, so they went somewhere else where the standards were less to reduce costs. Surprise surprise - they're polluting there now! China has no economic incentive to regulate emissions and every economic incentive to not regulate them. We had the same choice and chose the opposite, now it's time to use our economic leverage to strongly suggest that they do the same.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: Fern
We need to "green-up" the planet; trees "eat" CO2.
Fern

Popular misconception.

For photosynthesis to occur conditions have to be just right (the tree can't be shaded, for this reason grass works better than forests), have to have the right soil nutrients, water, etc.
If conditions aren't all right, or if it is night time, trees consume oxygen & produce CO2 just like people.

In fact, since they are at least producing CO2 at night, AND they are producing CO2 when other things are wrong, trees produce more CO2 than they consume overall.

So you might be wondering, how is there any oxygen left on the planet? The majority of the oxygen in the air is actually produced by electrolysis from lightning strikes over the ocean.

 

[lefenzy]

Originally posted by: glugglug

Originally posted by: Fern
We need to "green-up" the planet; trees "eat" CO2.
Fern

Popular misconception.

For photosynthesis to occur conditions have to be just right (the tree can't be shaded, for this reason grass works better than forests), have to have the right soil nutrients, water, etc.
If conditions aren't all right, or if it is night time, trees consume oxygen & produce CO2 just like people.

In fact, since they are at least producing CO2 at night, AND they are producing CO2 when other things are wrong, trees produce more CO2 than they consume overall.

So you might be wondering, how is there any oxygen left on the planet? The majority of the oxygen in the air is actually produced by electrolysis from lightning strikes over the ocean.

That seems difficult to believe.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: senseamp
What are we doing about the other 70% of pollution? I am in LA now, and the air here stinks.
Oh, yeah, striking another country is an act of war, no matter what reason or excuse you have or think you have.

Hang on, I thought everyone over there drove only Prius's and used only one sheet of TP.

Nah. Actually, the cars driven here seem similar to those in the bay area where I live, but the air seems very stagnant, so even if I go running at night, the streets still reek of gas because the smog is just hovering around.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
For hypothetical purposes lets say China is making 100% of the pollution floating over. Through whatever process they are using for industrial uses or energy production, it has serious health side effects, including death to some people (be it cancer, respiratory problems, etc.).

How could the US handle this? ...
Or do the west coasters just give up and move inward?

I really can't come up with a solution I would be willing to carry out, good thing I'm not The Great Decider.

No problem. You reduce taxes and give KBR/Halliburton an open-ended no-bid contract which is paid with social security trust fund monies. The objective is to build giant fans across the Pacific to divert the dirty air to Mexico and Central America.

As a secondary benefit the polluted air helps to reduce illegal immigration. It also furthers the Con Agenda by expediting the insolvency of SS.

And finally it feathers Dick's nest with a golden parachute and provides working capital for Halliburton's new office tower for the corporate headquarters in Dubai.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Well interesting to see no one jumping to bomb them

Then read this a few minutes ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/mon...08/07/bcnchina107a.xml

Seems like even if we were to enforce an embargo or tariff, that it may backfire.

China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 1:48am BST 08/08/2007

The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.

Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress. Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.

Described as China's "nuclear option" in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.
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It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

Xia Bin, finance chief at the Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what now appears to be government policy with a comment last week that Beijing's foreign reserves should be used as a "bargaining chip" in talks with the US.

"Of course, China doesn't want any undesirable phenomenon in the global financial order," he added.

He Fan, an official at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, went even further today, letting it be known that Beijing had the power to set off a dollar collapse if it choose to do so.

"China has accumulated a large sum of US dollars. Such a big sum, of which a considerable portion is in US treasury bonds, contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency. Russia, Switzerland, and several other countries have reduced the their dollar holdings.

"China is unlikely to follow suit as long as the yuan's exchange rate is stable against the dollar. The Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars once the yuan appreciated dramatically, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar," he told China Daily.

The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being "held hostage to economic decicions being made in Beijing, Shanghai, or Tokyo".

She said foreign control over 44pc of the US national debt had left America acutely vulnerable.

Simon Derrick, a currency strategist at the Bank of New York Mellon, said the comments were a message to the US Senate as Capitol Hill prepares legislation for the Autumn session.

"The words are alarming and unambiguous. This carries a clear political threat and could have very serious consequences at a time when the credit markets are already afraid of contagion from the subprime troubles," he said.

A bill drafted by a group of US senators, and backed by the Senate Finance Committee, calls for trade tariffs against Chinese goods as retaliation for alleged currency manipulation.

The yuan has appreciated 9pc against the dollar over the last two years under a crawling peg but it has failed to halt the rise of China's trade surplus, which reached $26.9bn in June.

Henry Paulson, the US Tresury Secretary, said any such sanctions would undermine American authority and "could trigger a global cycle of protectionist legislation".

Mr Paulson is a China expert from his days as head of Goldman Sachs. He has opted for a softer form of diplomacy, but appeared to win few concession from Beijing on a unscheduled trip to China last week aimed at calming the waters.

Granted it could just be fud on by China

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: glugglug

Originally posted by: Fern
We need to "green-up" the planet; trees "eat" CO2.
Fern

Popular misconception.

For photosynthesis to occur conditions have to be just right (the tree can't be shaded, for this reason grass works better than forests), have to have the right soil nutrients, water, etc.
If conditions aren't all right, or if it is night time, trees consume oxygen & produce CO2 just like people.

In fact, since they are at least producing CO2 at night, AND they are producing CO2 when other things are wrong, trees produce more CO2 than they consume overall.

So you might be wondering, how is there any oxygen left on the planet? The majority of the oxygen in the air is actually produced by electrolysis from lightning strikes over the ocean.

Wrong. Growing forests are net consumers of CO2.