Hybrid car owners wonder: Where's the mileage?

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tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: Daaavo
Originally posted by: maluckey

So where's the savings atwith the new hybrids? The mileage is average, the production costs and materials are more expensive, and the life expectancy of the batteries is short......I don't see any benefits except to say that you have one. A curiosity of sorts, nothing more.


I was in buying a couple oil filters at the local Toyota dealer last week and I asked the parts guy what the price of the main battery on the Prius cost. His first response was, "Ooooh, they are expensive!". He mentioned that on the first generation Prius the price was $8,000, but he thought the price of the latest version was a bit cheaper. After a little digging in his computer, he found it: $4,800 for the main battery on the 2004 Prius.
Toyota estimates the Prius battery will need to be replaced in 8-10 years. At that time, they expect the price to be down to $1000, and reconditioned battery packs will also be available. One of my car magazines had an article on it this month and they calculated that under those conditions the cost per mile of a Prius still dominates most gasoline cars even with the battery replacement factored in.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Daaavo
Originally posted by: maluckey

So where's the savings atwith the new hybrids? The mileage is average, the production costs and materials are more expensive, and the life expectancy of the batteries is short......I don't see any benefits except to say that you have one. A curiosity of sorts, nothing more.


I was in buying a couple oil filters at the local Toyota dealer last week and I asked the parts guy what the price of the main battery on the Prius cost. His first response was, "Ooooh, they are expensive!". He mentioned that on the first generation Prius the price was $8,000, but he thought the price of the latest version was a bit cheaper. After a little digging in his computer, he found it: $4,800 for the main battery on the 2004 Prius.
Not bad, the Battery is expected to last 8 years.

Sounds like when you factor in yearly maintenance of a 8 mpg guzzler compared to the once every 8 year Battery replacement, doing quite well. I bet you could find that Battery a lot cheaper than "Dealer" cost too.


 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,409
189
106
I saw a show where they ran a Civic and a hybrid from coast to coast at the same time together to simulate real world driving.

Once it was over, in combination driving the %'s were exactely what they were supposed to be with the Hybrid definately better on gas.
Some situations had the hybrid the equal of the Civic but most times it was better.
Neither came up to the sticker MPG ratings though but they didn't expect them to.

 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
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Dave, for the record, I have a few cars, and the one in question is a Daimler Chrysler vehicle. I don't like any current or past honda branded automotive product, at any price.

Every eight years expect to replace batteries at a projected price of over a thousand per battery!!!!? There are multiple batteries in this car. That would be more than the residual value of the car itself!!!!! Absurd to think that anyone would think this to be economical. That's designed obsolescence. My nine year old car, get similar mileage, and every eight years needs new carpet, and an alternator, and maybe a set of ball joints. The hybrids still use oil, gas, and all the other normal car parts at the same rate. Just now they add the uber-expensive batteries and special tires to the mix. Until the battery price falls below 500 dollars projected, it's not saving anyone a penny in my opinion.
 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
12,686
2
81
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
ugh, duh, the civic is the least efficient of the lot.
my 01 civic would get 29MPG (EPA rated 38MPG) on the highway.
granted, that was on an interstate trip running ~78MPH.

funny thing is, next year, I could buy a Buick LaCrosse that would get the same highway mileage and the emissions would be less...and I would have ample passing power
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: maluckey
Dave, for the record, I have a few cars, and the one in question is a Daimler Chrysler vehicle. I don't like any current or past honda branded automotive product, at any price.

Every eight years expect to replace batteries at a projected price of over a thousand per battery!!!!? There are multiple batteries in this car. That would be more than the residual value of the car itself!!!!! Absurd to think that anyone would think this to be economical. That's designed obsolescence. My nine year old car, get similar mileage, and every eight years needs new carpet, and an alternator, and maybe a set of ball joints. The hybrids still use oil, gas, and all the other normal car parts at the same rate. Just now they add the uber-expensive batteries and special tires to the mix. Until the battery price falls below 500 dollars projected, it's not saving anyone a penny in my opinion.

That's $1000 projected for the entire battery pack. Thier is only 1 Hybrid battery pack.

It is still a new technology and is in need of refinement. Hybrid is a stopgap until for example Fuel Cells become practical. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried and developed however.
 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
12,686
2
81
Where I used to work, we tested different battery types. We actually went in and purchased a Toyota Prius battery pack (38 ~7.2V modules to a pack) from a toyota dealer. The ran around $4000. When it was all said and done, I think we ended up purchasing ~30 of the packs from the local dealership (the parts counter guy LOVED me) and I think the cheapest I saw then get was $3600

this was in 2001-2002
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: maluckey
Dave, for the record, I have a few cars, and the one in question is a Daimler Chrysler vehicle. I don't like any current or past honda branded automotive product, at any price.

Every eight years expect to replace batteries at a projected price of over a thousand per battery!!!!? There are multiple batteries in this car. That would be more than the residual value of the car itself!!!!! Absurd to think that anyone would think this to be economical. That's designed obsolescence. My nine year old car, get similar mileage, and every eight years needs new carpet, and an alternator, and maybe a set of ball joints. The hybrids still use oil, gas, and all the other normal car parts at the same rate. Just now they add the uber-expensive batteries and special tires to the mix. Until the battery price falls below 500 dollars projected, it's not saving anyone a penny in my opinion.
Wow, I don't think my wife's Neon 4 cyclinder get 32 mpg. You got a gem there.

All new cars are designed for obsolescence after 5 years anyway.

I'm sure the Batteries can be had for a lot cheaper than these Dealer prices. Hell If I had one I would recycle the battery Modules and put together my own Battery pack. I do that with my 84 Amp UPS.

 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
maybe the hybrid owners need to stop flooring it everywhere they go? or perhaps they need to not speed [from most of the cars ive owned, 65 MPH is the ideal speed to get optimal gas mileage, go any faster and mileage starts to slip.]
 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
12,686
2
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: maluckey
Dave, for the record, I have a few cars, and the one in question is a Daimler Chrysler vehicle. I don't like any current or past honda branded automotive product, at any price.

Every eight years expect to replace batteries at a projected price of over a thousand per battery!!!!? There are multiple batteries in this car. That would be more than the residual value of the car itself!!!!! Absurd to think that anyone would think this to be economical. That's designed obsolescence. My nine year old car, get similar mileage, and every eight years needs new carpet, and an alternator, and maybe a set of ball joints. The hybrids still use oil, gas, and all the other normal car parts at the same rate. Just now they add the uber-expensive batteries and special tires to the mix. Until the battery price falls below 500 dollars projected, it's not saving anyone a penny in my opinion.
Wow, I don't think my wife's Neon 4 cyclinder get 32 mpg. You got a gem there.

All new cars are designed for obsolescence after 5 years anyway.

I'm sure the Batteries can be had for a lot cheaper than these Dealer prices. Hell If I had one I would recycle the battery Modules and put together my own Battery pack. I do that with my 84 Amp UPS.
Hate to break your heart, but it's a proprietary battery design. So, you'd either have to buy it from Toyota or spend alot more and get Panasonic to sell to you in mass quantities ;)
 

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