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Hybrid = Bad?

NaOH

Diamond Member
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March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ?green car? is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius?s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn?t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ?dead zone? around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius? battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist?s nightmare.

?The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,? said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn?t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ?nickel foam.? From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven?t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius?s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called ?Dust to Dust,? the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
 
This doesn't surprise me.

The Hybrid fanaticism and hipocracy is only outdone by the Global Warming fanatiscism and hipocracy..
 
Hybrid = good for environment no?

Does it mean good for me? Not directly. The Camry Hybrid costs over $30k and I'm not about to spend $10k more when I can get an LE for $20,500 out the door. Yes there's a 26k hybrid version but you can't really find that as it constitutes to 3% of Toyota's production whereas the 30k hybrid, is something like 25% of production

Shelling out 10k more up front doesn't translate to gas benefits for something like 10 years. Sure I save the environment, but at such a huge cost? Nah. Let's wait.
 
So....for the same amount of energy, you can get a Prius, or an ugly H3...

Both will last a long time (that "hummer will last 3x as long" statement is bad)
One will use LESS gasoline
One uses stopping (a loss of energy) to store energy to start moving again

talking about hybrids/cars is MORE then just how good MPG they get, or how much energy is used to make them, etc.
 
I posted that article probably a year ago now, all the Hybrid fans didn't want to hear it. Not because the article is so far off, but because they can't take the idea that they aren't better then the average person by driving the hybrid, they just didnt' want to hear it. Driving a hybrid saves you money in gas, I'm not convinced that you're actually doing anything special for the environment though, even though so many hybrid owners want to look down on you like they are and this makes them better then others.

*Edit - The article I posted probably isn't that exact article, but basically says the same thing... that when you taken into account the specialty parts that need to be produced, batteries that wear out and need to be replaced, they don't really do anything for the environment.
 
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I posted that article probably a year ago now, all the Hybrid fans didn't want to hear it. Not because the article is so far off, but because they can't take the idea that they aren't better then the average person by driving the hybrid, they just didnt' want to hear it. Driving a hybrid saves you money in gas, I'm not convinced that you're actually doing anything special for the environment though, even though so many hybrid owners want to look down on you like they are and this makes them better then others.

How come it's dated 2007?
 
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hybrid=Good!

Yup.

Besides, it doesn't matter...as long as it gets me attention 🙂

honestly, you kind of weigh the factors of "damage" to the environment. the writer of the article seems to have a lot of logic. and logic is highly important in order to understand many of the mathematical factors involved in environmental control and it's combination with the economy.

but you gotta be 'real' - I mean, are you telling me that this article is really going to convince Americans that they should stop buying Hybrids, or that they need to immediately ban Toyota's name from efficient advertising here in America?

what so many people actually fail to understand, is that, politically, the government needs people who have the right mind for the environment, and that business need to think the same. research will yield more environment-friendly cars eventually, but to embrace the change is not by the company alone, but from the people.

weigh out profit and people. if they can afford it, great. but if there is a car with more features than what the hybrid has to offer (toyota's hybrid has tons of stuff many car owners can only dream of right now), then of course there is going to be a target market that wants their car. you can't expect everyone to think the same about the hybrid in an environmental way, they just want a cool looking car that gets them around town for crying out loud, lol
 
Originally posted by: CPA
This doesn't surprise me.

The Hybrid fanaticism and hipocracy is only outdone by the Global Warming fanatiscism and hipocracy..

How about those who bury their heads in the sand and completely dismiss any notion that humans impact the environment or those who ignore our depleting oil reserves because they like the commanding view of the road their canyonero affords? How do you feel about them?
 
Originally posted by: NaOH
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I posted that article probably a year ago now, all the Hybrid fans didn't want to hear it. Not because the article is so far off, but because they can't take the idea that they aren't better then the average person by driving the hybrid, they just didnt' want to hear it. Driving a hybrid saves you money in gas, I'm not convinced that you're actually doing anything special for the environment though, even though so many hybrid owners want to look down on you like they are and this makes them better then others.

How come it's dated 2007?

See my edit.

*Edit - Here is the info I posted about a year ago in a thread:

http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoin.../doubts-cast-on-hybrid-efficiency.html

You can find the exact article if you search for CNW Marketing Research and hybrid.
 
Originally posted by: NaOH
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I posted that article probably a year ago now, all the Hybrid fans didn't want to hear it. Not because the article is so far off, but because they can't take the idea that they aren't better then the average person by driving the hybrid, they just didnt' want to hear it. Driving a hybrid saves you money in gas, I'm not convinced that you're actually doing anything special for the environment though, even though so many hybrid owners want to look down on you like they are and this makes them better then others.

How come it's dated 2007?

nvm
 
reposted over and over man...

based on a rather questionable study by hired gun marketing research company that used absurd assumptions in its "study" to come up with those results.

 
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