Hurricane Gustav = Talking Points for Obama

[jpeyton]

Current models predict it will hit west of New Orleans, making landfall with approximately 130MPH winds on Monday.

 

[Lemon law]

This decision may not be too smart if Gustav looks to be going somewhere else and then hooks back to New Orleans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...siIrMI9NLRolxf0qis0NUE

Locking the superdome when it may be needed by some who do not evacuate? Its not just the winds, its the rains that can do the damage.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
This decision may not be too smart if Gustav looks to be going somewhere else and then hooks back to New Orleans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...siIrMI9NLRolxf0qis0NUE

Locking the superdome when it may be needed by some who do not evacuate? Its not just the winds, its the rains that can do the damage.

Because it worked so well the last time?

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: kabob983
Shhh, don't let everyone know that all this is caused by Bush's weather machine...

lol - I think that horse has already left the gate.

Katrina = God's Wrath

Some tooth fairy sent the storm over because he/she/it didn't like homo's.


I wonder what pathetic excuse the religious right will dream up this time?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: ericlp
I wonder what pathetic excuse the religious right will dream up this time?

Conky, you want to chime in on this one?

 

[HomerJS]

The right wing findies prayed for rain in Denver during the Democratic convention. Oh the irony.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: SlingXShot
If the weather folks say what they say and goes into the gulf and hitting new orleans.

Obama will have two talking points.

1. Gas prices will probably go up. All those oil rigs...are offshore drilling. Obama can bring up how dangerous it is to have offshore drilling.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

When people are paying even higher prices they really wanna hear about how bad more drilling is.

Oh, and don't worry about Louisianna. They've got a Repub governor now instead of that incompetent bimbo Dem loser. IIRC, it's still the same mayor but maybe he can get it right this time.

Fern

Yes, so it was a good thing that there was a strong Republican federal government to swoop in and save Louisiana from Democratic bungling during Katrina. No...wait...

 

[crisscross]

Category 4 now.. New Orleans evacuations begin as Gustav menaces

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87
Katrina was bigger than this thing and we didnt see any meaningful damage to the rigs in the Gulf.

I would expect the same from this storm.

What?

There should be a law against posting without data to back up garbage:

8-28-2008 Gulf oil rigs face storm test

With Tropical Storm Gustav setting its sights on the Gulf of Mexico, oil facilities in the region are facing their first major threat since 2005,

when Hurricanes Rita and Katrina knocked out nearly every barrel of oil production and sent prices soaring to then-record levels.

At 1.3 million barrels a day, the Gulf is home to over a quarter of the oil produced in the United States, according to the Energy Information Administration. Plus, it accounts for over 10% of the country's natural gas production.

When Hurricane Katrina roared through as a Category 5 storm in late August 2005, it ripped up pipelines and battered production platforms through out most of the Gulf.

But more than offshore oil platforms are at risk.

Upon making landfall, even as a Category 3, Katrina caused considerable damage to the many refineries in the region. It also disrupted crude imports - the Gulf of Mexico houses the country's only deep water port for imported oil.

As a result of all the disruptions, gasoline prices surged.

Gas went from a national average of $2.62 a gallon at the end of August to over $3.08 a gallon week later, a nearly 18% jump.

A similar surge now would send gas prices to nearly $4.40 a gallon, well past the previous record of $4.11 a gallon set in July and erasing all the declines seen over the last few weeks as traders talked of falling demand and a slowing economy.

But this time around, if Gustav intensifies and heads into the Gulf as expected, experts say reinforcements have made production far less vulnerable than it was three years ago.

Drilling rigs and production platforms moored to sea floor in the Gulf had been attached with eight lines, and are now required to be moored with 12 to 16 lines.

New rigs were built higher above the water, and old rigs were strengthened, according to Andy Radford, a policy advisor at the American Petroleum Institute.

And pipelines, which carry most of the oil and gas from the production platforms to the shore, now have to be buried deeper beneath the sea floor, said Barbara Shook, a Houston-based analyst with the Energy Intelligence Group.

"The industry is probably in the best shape it's ever been in because of what they've learned over the last few years," said Shook.

Anyone who buys gasoline better hope so.

Yes, it damaged a handful of older production platforms and pipelines. You need to put it in perspective though. Take a look at how many platforms/rigs/miles of pipelines there are in the region that got hit. A very very small percentage took significant damage.

Funny thing is, still no one is talking about the very real threat of the biggest crisis we have seen in a LONG time. The forecasted track isn't far from Port Fourchon. If Port Fourchon sustains significant damage then we will be wild and truly fucked.

Port Fourchon is where we receive the vast majority of the deep water oil tankers that export oil/petrochemicals to the US. We don't have a replacement. NONE. So if it goes down we lose roughly 18% of our imported oil and no telling how much of our domestic production is transported and serviced through there. We are not talking about $10 a gallon gas we are talking about insanely serious gas shortages.

Sadly, it seems no one else wants to listen to us scream about exactly how vulnerable the country is. I hope that we don't find out but if we do, it will be a very very hard lesson.

Actually the deep water port is LOOP (Louisiana Offshore Oil Port) which is about 18-20 miles offshore. This is where all the very large oil tankers offload all or part of their cargo.

Port Fourchon only has a pumping station (booster) for the pipeline which leads to the storage facility.

Damage to the pumping station would affect loops operation but there are alternates to handling large oil tankers in the gulf.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
This decision may not be too smart if Gustav looks to be going somewhere else and then hooks back to New Orleans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...siIrMI9NLRolxf0qis0NUE

Locking the superdome when it may be needed by some who do not evacuate? Its not just the winds, its the rains that can do the damage.

Perhaps it is meant to further motivate people to leave.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Well when Nagan was asked what he thought of Roe vs. Wade, he said he didn't care, just as long as people got out.

 

[Red Dawn]

It's a shame they aren't having the RNC there next week.

 

[Overgloc]

It's a SHAME NOBAMA is Not Fishing in the GULF Right NOW!!

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It's a shame they aren't having the RNC there next week.

It's a shame that the Democrats are already making plans to make political hay out of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

 

[ProfJohn]

How Gustav helps the Republicans.

1. Illustrates our need to diversify our drilling and oil production.
2. There is now a Republican governor in charge who can illustrate the proper way to respond to a disaster.
3. We get to remind everyone that the state and local officials in charge during the disaster were Democrats who performed horribly.
4. We get to talk about how much waste and fraud came out of the relief spending thus reminding America that big government programs (which Obama favors) are filled with waste and corruption.
5. Best yet, if it is a huge storm and the Federal government responds well this time the story line will be how much better the Feds responded this time around.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How Gustav helps the Republicans.

1. Illustrates our need to diversify our drilling and oil production.
2. There is now a Republican governor in charge who can illustrate the proper way to respond to a disaster.
3. We get to remind everyone that the state and local officials in charge during the disaster were Democrats who performed horribly.
4. We get to talk about how much waste and fraud came out of the relief spending thus reminding America that big government programs (which Obama favors) are filled with waste and corruption.
5. Best yet, if it is a huge storm and the Federal government responds well this time the story line will be how much better the Feds responded this time around.

Yeah nobody will remember how the Republican Administration failed horribly with Katrina.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: HomerJS
The right wing findies prayed for rain in Denver during the Democratic convention. Oh the irony.

Similar to how the left-wing fundies are acting as if Gustav is some sort of retribution for the GOP convention, which is nowhere close to NOLA.

Clearly both sides have their fervent religious beliefs.

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How Gustav helps the Republicans.

1. Illustrates our need to diversify our drilling and oil production.
2. There is now a Republican governor in charge who can illustrate the proper way to respond to a disaster.
3. We get to remind everyone that the state and local officials in charge during the disaster were Democrats who performed horribly.
4. We get to talk about how much waste and fraud came out of the relief spending thus reminding America that big government programs (which Obama favors) are filled with waste and corruption.
5. Best yet, if it is a huge storm and the Federal government responds well this time the story line will be how much better the Feds responded this time around.

Yeah nobody will remember how the Republican Administration failed horribly with Katrina.

just like no one remembers that the dems ran la and no for how many years before the hurricane... they mustn't have needed the votes...

 

[preslove]

The talking points will be more centered on Katrina. This will just remind everyone about Bush's failings in 2005, and will completely overshadow the RNC.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How Gustav helps the Republicans.

1. Illustrates our need to diversify our drilling and oil production.

It's not just oil platforms shutting down that makes this a problem. A huge amount of oil REFINERIES are in that area. fail

2. There is now a Republican governor in charge who can illustrate the proper way to respond to a disaster.

Is Obama running for Governor? Or the boss of FEMA, which was so pathetically run by bush's cronies?

3. We get to remind everyone that the state and local officials in charge during the disaster were Democrats who performed horribly.

lol

4. We get to talk about how much waste and fraud came out of the relief spending thus reminding America that big government programs (which Obama favors) are filled with waste and corruption.

You mean the waste and fraud perpetrated by bush's administration? FEMA was well run under Clinton, but was given to that idiot Brown.

5. Best yet, if it is a huge storm and the Federal government responds well this time the story line will be how much better the Feds responded this time around.

Or Obama can say, "why didn't bush put someone competent in charge of FEMA in the first place?"

Oh, and R. David Paulison, the current head of FEMA, is a Democrat...

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It's a shame they aren't having the RNC there next week.

It's a shame that the Democrats are already making plans to make political hay out of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

Like McCain going to Mississippi "to make sure they are prepared"?
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/st...ional_world&id=6361370

EDIT: When Gustav hits, I can't imagine anyone wanting to deal with a Republican Administration. The past eight years have been bad luck left and right. From September 11 to Iraq to Katrina to global warming to oil reaching $150/gallon to massive inflation to huge foreclosures. G-d has shitted on America during Bush's reign.

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It's a shame they aren't having the RNC there next week.

It's a shame that the Democrats are already making plans to make political hay out of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

Like McCain going to Mississippi "to make sure they are prepared"?
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/st...ional_world&id=6361370

EDIT: When Gustav hits, I can't imagine anyone wanting to deal with a Republican Administration. The past eight years have been bad luck left and right. From September 11 to Iraq to Katrina to global warming to oil reaching $150/gallon to massive inflation to huge foreclosures. G-d has shitted on America during Bush's reign.

You liberals are going to talk down whatever he does, so it really isnt worth discussing. Point being, you guys are on TAPE laughing and planning to take advantage of it. Nevermind that though... McCain is going to go see if he can help... the dirty bastard.

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How Gustav helps the Republicans.

1. Illustrates our need to diversify our drilling and oil production.
2. There is now a Republican governor in charge who can illustrate the proper way to respond to a disaster.
3. We get to remind everyone that the state and local officials in charge during the disaster were Democrats who performed horribly.
4. We get to talk about how much waste and fraud came out of the relief spending thus reminding America that big government programs (which Obama favors) are filled with waste and corruption.
5. Best yet, if it is a huge storm and the Federal government responds well this time the story line will be how much better the Feds responded this time around.

Yeah nobody will remember how the Republican Administration failed horribly with Katrina.

just like no one remembers that the dems ran la and no for how many years before the hurricane... they mustn't have needed the votes...

"Schoolbus Nagan" you mean? Why should he bear any responsibility?

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87
Katrina was bigger than this thing and we didnt see any meaningful damage to the rigs in the Gulf.

I would expect the same from this storm.

What?

There should be a law against posting without data to back up garbage:

8-28-2008 Gulf oil rigs face storm test

With Tropical Storm Gustav setting its sights on the Gulf of Mexico, oil facilities in the region are facing their first major threat since 2005,

when Hurricanes Rita and Katrina knocked out nearly every barrel of oil production and sent prices soaring to then-record levels.

At 1.3 million barrels a day, the Gulf is home to over a quarter of the oil produced in the United States, according to the Energy Information Administration. Plus, it accounts for over 10% of the country's natural gas production.

When Hurricane Katrina roared through as a Category 5 storm in late August 2005, it ripped up pipelines and battered production platforms through out most of the Gulf.

But more than offshore oil platforms are at risk.

Upon making landfall, even as a Category 3, Katrina caused considerable damage to the many refineries in the region. It also disrupted crude imports - the Gulf of Mexico houses the country's only deep water port for imported oil.

As a result of all the disruptions, gasoline prices surged.

Gas went from a national average of $2.62 a gallon at the end of August to over $3.08 a gallon week later, a nearly 18% jump.

A similar surge now would send gas prices to nearly $4.40 a gallon, well past the previous record of $4.11 a gallon set in July and erasing all the declines seen over the last few weeks as traders talked of falling demand and a slowing economy.

But this time around, if Gustav intensifies and heads into the Gulf as expected, experts say reinforcements have made production far less vulnerable than it was three years ago.

Drilling rigs and production platforms moored to sea floor in the Gulf had been attached with eight lines, and are now required to be moored with 12 to 16 lines.

New rigs were built higher above the water, and old rigs were strengthened, according to Andy Radford, a policy advisor at the American Petroleum Institute.

And pipelines, which carry most of the oil and gas from the production platforms to the shore, now have to be buried deeper beneath the sea floor, said Barbara Shook, a Houston-based analyst with the Energy Intelligence Group.

"The industry is probably in the best shape it's ever been in because of what they've learned over the last few years," said Shook.

Anyone who buys gasoline better hope so.

Yes, it damaged a handful of older production platforms and pipelines. You need to put it in perspective though. Take a look at how many platforms/rigs/miles of pipelines there are in the region that got hit. A very very small percentage took significant damage.

Funny thing is, still no one is talking about the very real threat of the biggest crisis we have seen in a LONG time. The forecasted track isn't far from Port Fourchon. If Port Fourchon sustains significant damage then we will be wild and truly fucked.

Port Fourchon is where we receive the vast majority of the deep water oil tankers that export oil/petrochemicals to the US. We don't have a replacement. NONE. So if it goes down we lose roughly 18% of our imported oil and no telling how much of our domestic production is transported and serviced through there. We are not talking about $10 a gallon gas we are talking about insanely serious gas shortages.

Sadly, it seems no one else wants to listen to us scream about exactly how vulnerable the country is. I hope that we don't find out but if we do, it will be a very very hard lesson.

Actually the deep water port is LOOP (Louisiana Offshore Oil Port) which is about 18-20 miles offshore. This is where all the very large oil tankers offload all or part of their cargo. [/q

As well as the ULCC tankers. The LOOP is 18 miles offshore.... right in the path of this storm.

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Port Fourchon only has a pumping station (booster) for the pipeline which leads to the storage facility.

It is much more than that. It services the ships and the LOOP as well as supplies a very large portion of the US refining capacity.

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Damage to the pumping station would affect loops operation but there are alternates to handling large oil tankers in the gulf.

Could you name one that can handle ULCCs or even VLCCs? Then can you tell me the additional capacity it could handle?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It's a shame they aren't having the RNC there next week.

It's a shame that the Democrats are already making plans to make political hay out of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

Like McCain going to Mississippi "to make sure they are prepared"?
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/st...ional_world&id=6361370

EDIT: When Gustav hits, I can't imagine anyone wanting to deal with a Republican Administration. The past eight years have been bad luck left and right. From September 11 to Iraq to Katrina to global warming to oil reaching $150/gallon to massive inflation to huge foreclosures. G-d has shitted on America during Bush's reign.

You liberals are going to talk down whatever he does, so it really isnt worth discussing. Point being, you guys are on TAPE laughing and planning to take advantage of it. Nevermind that though... McCain is going to go see if he can help... the dirty bastard.

I called you out on your own statement, idiot. McCain knows the only thing he can do is get in the way. Obama has said he doesn't want to go there because he'll just be a distraction. This shit is serious and we don't need anyone campaigning there.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Yes, it damaged a handful of older production platforms and pipelines. You need to put it in perspective though. Take a look at how many platforms/rigs/miles of pipelines there are in the region that got hit. A very very small percentage took significant damage.

Funny thing is, still no one is talking about the very real threat of the biggest crisis we have seen in a LONG time. The forecasted track isn't far from Port Fourchon. If Port Fourchon sustains significant damage then we will be wild and truly fucked.

Port Fourchon is where we receive the vast majority of the deep water oil tankers that export oil/petrochemicals to the US. We don't have a replacement. NONE. So if it goes down we lose roughly 18% of our imported oil and no telling how much of our domestic production is transported and serviced through there. We are not talking about $10 a gallon gas we are talking about insanely serious gas shortages.

Sadly, it seems no one else wants to listen to us scream about exactly how vulnerable the country is. I hope that we don't find out but if we do, it will be a very very hard lesson.

Actually the deep water port is LOOP (Louisiana Offshore Oil Port) which is about 18-20 miles offshore. This is where all the very large oil tankers offload all or part of their cargo.

As well as the ULCC tankers. The LOOP is 18 miles offshore.... right in the path of this storm.

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Port Fourchon only has a pumping station (booster) for the pipeline which leads to the storage facility.

It is much more than that. It services the ships and the LOOP as well as supplies a very large portion of the US refining capacity.

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Damage to the pumping station would affect loops operation but there are alternates to handling large oil tankers in the gulf.

Could you name one that can handle ULCCs or even VLCCs? Then can you tell me the additional capacity it could handle?

Yes it serves smaller ships which can be serviced in many other ports in the Gulf. LOOP was designed for deep draught (or draft if you prefer) tankers which are too deep to go into other ports when laden.

Gulf has many open water areas which are designated as lighterage areas. This is where smaller ships (known as ligherage ships or daughter ships) go and double bank with large VLCCs / ULCCs and take some of the cargo. These smaller ships then go into the various ports like Port Fourchon, Baton Rouge, St James, Port Arthur, Mobile, Lake Charles, Houston, Galveston, Corpus Christi and many others in the Gulf area.

Depending upon the size / draft the big ship may then go into a port to discharge the balance cargo or do a complete discharge to smaller ships.

I have personally worked both on lightering ships in the Gulf and on VLCCs on the West Africa - Gulf run and have been involved in both aspects of such operations.

Yes the hurricane will have an effect but it's not that alternatives don't exist. That was my point.

edit: Yes LOOP is in the path of the storm but all loop consists of is 3 buoys (SBM) which are designed to handle bad weather as long as no ship is tied to them. And in weather like this no ship will stay at any SBM. So it is very unlikely that the LOOP terminal itself will be affected.

LOOP handles both VLCCs & ULCCs. Some VLCCs can go into certain ports once part cargo has been taken off. One VLCC I worked on used to regularly go to Galveston and St James after part cargo was discharged to smaller ships.