Hundreds of thousands of Shiites chanting "Death to Israel" and "Death to America"

[ericlp]

Is there such a thing as a "SMART" conservative?

If there were we wouldn't be in this mess and we might actually start conserving instead of spending.... Sigh..........

 

[SamurAchzar]

Yet another voice of reason -
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/19765

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Yet another voice of reason -
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/19765

There are a lot of interesting things to be said about the current conflict in the Middle East, and not a one of them comes from people who equate our current situation to the lead up to WWII. The comparison is so wrong that it only works in the broadest strokes, which is the only way you people seem capable of analyzing the current situation. The essay is a few pages long, but the ONLY point that ever seems to be made (and this goes for you guys as well) is "We're good, they're evil".

I'm not arguing that the point is wrong so much as it is incomplete. Admitting complexity doesn't mean you're saying the Hezbollah terrorists are right, but I think we'd have a much better chance at peace if we could be away from the Jerry Bruckheimer style war movie everyone seems to think this situation is.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Is there such a thing as a "SMART" conservative?

If there were we wouldn't be in this mess and we might actually start conserving instead of spending.... Sigh..........

Now you know why I said "smartER".

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Zebo
"Death to Israel" and "Death to America"

Sounds like a democratic party rally.

ahahaha

Now that was funny in spite of the grave-as-usual news from Iraq in the OP


I think Dr. Michael Scheuer (Imperial Hubris) puts it best when he mentions the "Pavlovian "blame America first" attitude of some.

Scrap all of that though, the hyper-partisan environment in the US is flat bad for everyone.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: Zebo
"Death to Israel" and "Death to America"

Sounds like a democratic party rally.

ahahaha

Now that was funny in spite of the grave-as-usual news from Iraq in the OP


I think Dr. Michael Scheuer (Imperial Hubris) puts it best when he mentions the "Pavlovian "blame America first" attitude of some.

Scrap all of that though, the hyper-partisan environment in the US is flat bad for everyone.

Maybe you should actually read the book. He has been labled by the right as one of the "blame America first". Your post is ignorant.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Zebo
"Death to Israel" and "Death to America"

Sounds like a democratic party rally.

Thank goodness Bush brought democracy to Iraq.:roll:

I think he meant capital D. He was making one of these Hannity-esque simple minded " if you disagree with my side you are a traitor" remarks. How original and well thought out. Who is doing more damage to America, the anti-war people or the ones who support the Iran II adventure?

I have ears. In here many posters feel no matter how many rockets rain down on Israel, how many soldiers are snipped cross border there is no acceptable death toll before acknowledging Israel's right to retaliation and self-defence. They back Hezbolla even going so far as to call them a poltical org instead of terror org. They hate israel citing conspiracy stories, "Israeli lobby", 40 year old misslie accidents as proof who needs to be really "delt" with. Two sides of the same coin.

So..."Death to America"?

Never mind, you don't know. Man, I used to think you were one of the smarter conservatives on here...now it's like reading a zendari post. And if there is one thing we don't need more of, it's zendari. Whatever happened to discussion problems rationally instead of coming up with idiot insults Sean Hannity would be embarrassed to use?

I am not a conservative. I take liberal and conservative stances. Just whatever makes the most sense to me on any given issue. I refuse labels as it causes us to support positions we might not otherwise support because of group think.. I've already explained why, above, Democrats, least the ones in here, are pro Hezbolla and anti israeli and I still believe it. They can't recognise right from wrong anymore, the agressor from the agressee, truth from lies, and instead rely on underdog worship and trust Hezbolla news on the ground giving reports to form thier opinions. And maybe it's just because thier archenemy, Bush supports Israel their reflexive reaction is "that must be wrong" since he's dead wrong on just about everything else.... I admit the death to america swipe is a bit over the top, as Bush-cons probably have you beat with secret prisons and tortue chambers, fear mongering and economic class warfare, but then again democrats buy into every conspriacy that we are a destablizing force in the world instead of one which stands for human rights and our primary motive. So that label is applicaible to some as well.

 

[Jaskalas]

Perhaps when there is no more Lebanon, those who survived might realize what Hezbollah?s war brought upon them.

 

[straightalker]

Those of you who see Demorat and Republicrook in everything are brainwashed. You are certifiably mind-controlled. Your arguments have been controlled.

Now onto this subject. Millions of chanting Muslims calling for jihad is something everyone on the Planet should be very concerned about. It starts out with a few hundred then a few thousand than catches like wildfire.

If that flame keeps being fanned you can bet the nukes are going to start flying. We live in a very open society that is gradually being zipped shut tight because of all this threat.

The subverted Israel Government's current rampage in Lebanon had better start finishing up it's moment of madness. For the good of the entire World. It just can't go on like this without tipping the planet into WWIII.

The West supplies Israel and the East supplies the Iran->Syria->Hesbollah supply chain.

This war is really just the same two largest superpowers battling each other through proxies. Guaranteed to get nasty down the road.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Zebo
"Death to Israel" and "Death to America"

Sounds like a democratic party rally.

Thank goodness Bush brought democracy to Iraq.:roll:

I think he meant capital D. He was making one of these Hannity-esque simple minded " if you disagree with my side you are a traitor" remarks. How original and well thought out. Who is doing more damage to America, the anti-war people or the ones who support the Iran II adventure?

I have ears. In here many posters feel no matter how many rockets rain down on Israel, how many soldiers are snipped cross border there is no acceptable death toll before acknowledging Israel's right to retaliation and self-defence. They back Hezbolla even going so far as to call them a poltical org instead of terror org. They hate israel citing conspiracy stories, "Israeli lobby", 40 year old misslie accidents as proof who needs to be really "delt" with. Two sides of the same coin.

So..."Death to America"?

Never mind, you don't know. Man, I used to think you were one of the smarter conservatives on here...now it's like reading a zendari post. And if there is one thing we don't need more of, it's zendari. Whatever happened to discussion problems rationally instead of coming up with idiot insults Sean Hannity would be embarrassed to use?

I am not a conservative. I take liberal and conservative stances. Just whatever makes the most sense to me on any given issue. I refuse labels as it causes us to support positions we might not otherwise support because of group think.. I've already explained why, above, Democrats, least the ones in here, are pro Hezbolla and anti israeli and I still believe it. They can't recognise right from wrong anymore, the agressor from the agressee, truth from lies, and instead rely on underdog worship and trust Hezbolla news on the ground giving reports to form thier opinions. And maybe it's just because thier archenemy, Bush supports Israel their reflexive reaction is "that must be wrong" since he's dead wrong on just about everything else.... I admit the death to america swipe is a bit over the top, as Bush-cons probably have you beat with secret prisons and tortue chambers, fear mongering and economic class warfare, but then again democrats buy into every conspriacy that we are a destablizing force in the world instead of one which stands for human rights and our primary motive. So that label is applicaible to some as well.

Fair enough, but for someone who "refuses labels", you sure seem willing to paint people you disagree with with a mighty wide brush...

And yes, I'm aware of the irony given my insinuation that you must be a conservative because of the tone of your post

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Perhaps when there is no more Lebanon, those who survived might realize what Hezbollah?s war brought upon them.

Or they might decide their best course of action is to blow up as many Israelis as possible. This whole reasoning thing you guys have going on works on a very fine edge. It's just one step from blaming Hezbollah for the Israeli response and deciding Israel is at fault and needs to pay. Personally I think most people in the region are going to lean the latter way, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[tommywishbone]

And just think; all of this because 19 gangbangers stole a few airplanes. Oh ya... we handled that well.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Those of you who see Demorat and Republicrook in everything are brainwashed. You are certifiably mind-controlled. Your arguments have been controlled.

Now onto this subject. Millions of chanting Muslims calling for jihad is something everyone on the Planet should be very concerned about. It starts out with a few hundred then a few thousand than catches like wildfire.

If that flame keeps being fanned you can bet the nukes are going to start flying. We live in a very open society that is gradually being zipped shut tight because of all this threat.

The subverted Israel Government's current rampage in Lebanon had better start finishing up it's moment of madness. For the good of the entire World. It just can't go on like this without tipping the planet into WWIII.

The West supplies Israel and the East supplies the Iran->Syria->Hesbollah supply chain.

This war is really just the same two largest superpowers battling each other through proxies. Guaranteed to get nasty down the road.

Lets put things into proportions, shall we? The uproot about Israel's action in Lebanon is about 1/1000th of what happend when the Mohammad caricatures were publicized.

The above incident also goes some way to explain the common action and reaction rules we are all familiar with work a little bit differently in the Muslim world.

 

[straightalker]

Muslims in a large mass can work themselves into a frenzy of fenatical religious madness unlike any other group on the Planet. If it were not for their divisions amongst themselves, mainly the Shiite/Sunni division, I doubt Israel would be so bold. They have to guard against an invasion from a surrounding mass of a quater-billion ticked off Muslims.

Notice how Israel did not begin this huge massive military operation until Iraq was in a civil war. The goal of the USA/Israeli/British war machine in Iraq is to divide it into at least three seperately governed regions. Shiite, Sunni and Kurd. The goal is to get these three to slaughter each other.

How does that goal effect the safety of our USA soldiers over there? How does the current Israeli aggression effect our troops there? Hatred against non-muslims in the region seems to be escalating fast. I'd feel much happier with our boys were out of that messy muslim hell hole. They are not being told the truth by their pResident on down to the Generals and some further on down from there.

There is also the very real risk of a very large segment of the Muslim World uniting against us in their common faith enough to forget about their internal squabbles for awhile. There's already a hundred million like minded Iranians and Iraqis ready to rumble.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Notice how Israel did not begin this huge massive military operation until Iraq was in a civil war. The goal of the USA/Israeli/British war machine in Iraq is to divide it into at least three seperately governed regions. Shiite, Sunni and Kurd. The goal is to get these three to slaughter each other.

So you say the entire affair was preplanned? Hizbullah, cooperating, kidnapped two soldiers from Israeli soil and killed 8 more, exactly now during the outbreak of the Iraqi civil war?
That's interesting.

I'm not trying to convince you, as you probably have your own truths right now, and that's fine, really. I'm just trying to raise some questions in the mind of the innocent bystander who's reading this thread by accident or naiveity.

So do you, mr. Bystander, really believe that this operation had some kind of preplanning behind it? Do you believe it has ANYTHING to do with Iraq?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
.

So do you, mr. Bystander, really believe that this operation had some kind of preplanning behind it?

Of course they had some kind of preplanning behind it

Do you believe it has ANYTHING to do with Iraq?

No I believe it has more to do with Hezbollah building up their military pressence in Southern Lebanon

 

[SamurAchzar]

Sorry, I'll clear that up - I'm not talking about the resulting military operation but the chain of events leading to it.

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well a few posts back we had the solution---every time we encounter a foreigner we don't like---we kill them---simple---elegant---if the person is giving you a hard time.
Just kill them.---kill them all.

Especially if they're sitting on top of a pool of oil.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
And just think; all of this because 19 gangbangers stole a few airplanes. Oh ya... we handled that well.

Yeah, I got to say, this isn't getting out of hand at all...

You know what I really like though? How terrorism seems to free people from wanting to deal rationally and reasonably with anybody even remotely related to the terrorists. We can't negotiate or deal with Syria, Iran, etc, because they are all a bunch of terrorists identical to those that attacked us on 9/11. Nevermind that Libya was dealt with very effectivly using a combination of force and diplomacy, if there is anything we've learned from 9/11, it's that all Muslims in the Middle East are the same, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the 9/11 terrorists were working for anti-Muslim factions somewhere. They certainly made it a lot harder for peace to happen in the Middle East, and they gave a voice to radical extremists on OUR side of the conflict. Of course that's silly, the best explanation is that they are just stupid...which let's face it, we probably already guessed.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
And just think; all of this because 19 gangbangers stole a few airplanes. Oh ya... we handled that well.

Yeah, I got to say, this isn't getting out of hand at all...

You know what I really like though? How terrorism seems to free people from wanting to deal rationally and reasonably with anybody even remotely related to the terrorists. We can't negotiate or deal with Syria, Iran, etc, because they are all a bunch of terrorists identical to those that attacked us on 9/11. Nevermind that Libya was dealt with very effectivly using a combination of force and diplomacy, if there is anything we've learned from 9/11, it's that all Muslims in the Middle East are the same, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the 9/11 terrorists were working for anti-Muslim factions somewhere. They certainly made it a lot harder for peace to happen in the Middle East, and they gave a voice to radical extremists on OUR side of the conflict. Of course that's silly, the best explanation is that they are just stupid...which let's face it, we probably already guessed.

When was the last time Libya was dealt with "with force"? :roll:

Killing them all isn't an option without losing our own humanity. Probably a better option would be targeting hostile governements and destroying them each time they pop up, maybe after enough civil wars they will get it figured out on their own.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
And just think; all of this because 19 gangbangers stole a few airplanes. Oh ya... we handled that well.

Yeah, I got to say, this isn't getting out of hand at all...

You know what I really like though? How terrorism seems to free people from wanting to deal rationally and reasonably with anybody even remotely related to the terrorists. We can't negotiate or deal with Syria, Iran, etc, because they are all a bunch of terrorists identical to those that attacked us on 9/11. Nevermind that Libya was dealt with very effectivly using a combination of force and diplomacy, if there is anything we've learned from 9/11, it's that all Muslims in the Middle East are the same, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the 9/11 terrorists were working for anti-Muslim factions somewhere. They certainly made it a lot harder for peace to happen in the Middle East, and they gave a voice to radical extremists on OUR side of the conflict. Of course that's silly, the best explanation is that they are just stupid...which let's face it, we probably already guessed.

When was the last time Libya was dealt with "with force"? :roll:

Right after the 1986 bombing of the Berlin nightclub. We conducted a limited bombing campaign in retaliation, and while they haven't been exactly pro-American, they have mostly calmed down their terrorism supporting activities (with the Pan Am bombing 2 years after the nightclub being an obvious exception). I'm not saying our relationship with them has been prefect, but in the latest round of violence in the region...you don't hear a lot from Libya, do you?

Killing them all isn't an option without losing our own humanity. Probably a better option would be targeting hostile governements and destroying them each time they pop up, maybe after enough civil wars they will get it figured out on their own.

I agree...and I agree about targeting hostile governments. I believe that our main objective now should be to find out just how Iran and Syria are supporting Hezbollah, and if they are substantially supporting current terrorism activities...I say we send over some B-2s and put a few bombs through their respective leaders' roofs.

Edit: No messy and violent invasions and occupations that only hurt the common people in those countries, just justice for the actual people who sign the checks...they are far more important than the people who pull the triggers. I don't think it will take too long for support for terrorism to dry up.