Humane Capital Punishment

[cruiser1338]

Who said that murderers deserved to be treated humanely?

Would it not save money if we didn't have to do all lethal injections humanely? I have heard that it is more expensive to kill a death row inmate that to imprison them, but would we not save? I'm not sure how, but either way, does it need to be a "nice" death?

I am not for torturing the murderers, but maybe something that makes them feel like their victim/s. They removed humaneness from the equation by shooting, stabbing, or otherwise killing their victims, why do we need to put it back in? Maybe it would send a message to would be murderers that if they are convicted they won't have a relatively nice time?

Harsh punishments will make a severe effect. For example, repeat DUIs in Massachusetts now can have their licences revoked for as much as 3x than previously, in some cases for life! Seems a bit harsh, yes? But it'll have a large impact on drunk driver homicides and other crimes.

 

[silent tone]

Intuitively, it seems that execution by lowering a person into a meat grinder would have a deterrent effect. However there is some evidence that any capital punishment at all has little effect on crime statistics.

You seem to distinguish between inhumane and torture, but I don't think there is a distinction. How we treat people is one of the things that separates us from those that do the murdering. I think most governments that use the death penalty don't use it as an instrument of vengeance, but as a form of punishment and protection from future crimes. It sounds like you might advocate beating people guilty of assault and raping those that commit rape.

The bulk of the cost in capital punishment doesn't come in the form of execution supplies and manpower. It's the money given to lawyers for the extensive legal wrangling done before the head hits the chopping block. At any rate, I don't think the government should be pinching pennies when it comes to state sanctioned killing. Maybe they should cut back on highway landscaping or bridges to nowhere or the CIAs research in ESP first.

 

[WelshBloke]

What makes you think that Capital punishment is humane at the moment?

 

[hemiram]

And what about the wrongly convicted? It happens, more and more of these cases come out all the time where some guy's been in jail for rape/murder and it turns out that his DNA wasn't on/in the victim. It's happened in death penalty cases too, and due to publicity and DNA, the person is freed.

I'm not against capital punishment, when they really have the right person, and locking up someone for life is worse than death, to me anyway, but at least these people who have been wrongly convicted can get out someday if proven innocent. Dead is dead.

I know someone who, due to games played by the DA, and him being dumb as a brick, accepted a plea bargain for 13 years. The charge? Child molesting. Problem was, it never happened, the kids mom, grandmother, and several others were there and nothing happened! This guy I know, call him Ed, was so terrified of never getting out, that he took the plea bargain when they offered it. His court appointed loser of a lawyer never talked to the people who saw that nothing happened, or the loon woman who started the whole thing off in the first place and was committed for a while right after she made the claim she saw Ed performing oral sex on the little girl. If he had, he would have told Ed not to take the deal, and that would have been it, since they had no case. What the crazy
woman actually saw was Ed rub his bald head on the kid's stomach, as a joke. There are nearly a dozen people who confirmed it later on.


After Ed went off to jail, the mother of the "victim" calls the DA's office, and asks when Ed's trial was. They told her he pled guilty, and she said, "Why would he do that when nothing happened?" They told her that the matter was settled, and that was that. She started asking the press to look into it, and just about the time it was going to hit the TV news, the DA went to the judge with "new info" and the case was dismissed, and Ed got out, after almost 4 years in jail. He's a mess, can't work, scared to be around little kids, and is basically homeless. Did anything happen to the DA or his lawyer? No. The only real victim is Ed. His life is over.

Then there's the local guy who was convicted of killing his girlfriend, mostly on the testimony of his barely 3 year old son, who "saw daddy do something to mommy". He got basically a life sentence, he narrowly avoided the DP. He protested his innocence from day one, and his lawyer (a good one) fought and fought for years to have the evidence DNA tested, over the objections of the DA. Finally, his grandmother began doing interviews and protested in front of the courthouse and the DA's office cracked. Of course, the DNA came back, and it belonged to another guy, the victims then current boyfriend who was cleared by the local PD right after they arrested "the right guy".

So, he gets out after 14 years, with health problems, mental problems from being locked up wrongly for 14 years, and even then, the DA won't officially clear him, as they still say he "might" have been there when she was killed. There is and never was any evidence he was there, except for a little boy who was easily told what to say. He's been out a while now, and wants to move on with his life, but he's offically "on bail", and the DA is still yanking his chain after nearly 20 years now. On top of everything else, the kid still thinks he did it, even though it's highly unlikely that he actually remembers much of anything that happened at 3 years old accurately.

Until the justice system is "perfect" and that's never going to happen, I'm basically against the DP, unless there is evidence that really can't be planted/faked, such as video of the perp doing the crime. And if they are going to be killed, they deserve to go painlessly, like a dog or cat does.

 

[eilute]

Well there's still the gas chamber the electric chair. They might both be more painful than a firing squad. I suppose that if they wanted to make it less humane they could stop giving death row inmates a sedative prior to execution.

I don't think that there is anything stopping states from hanging criminals if they want.

 

[Strk]

Governor Romney tried to pass a death penalty standard in Massachusetts that would have the highest standards in the country, Hemiram, so that things like that wouldn't be much of an issue. It didn't pass though.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ahhh- the good old days, when capital punishment was... capital... a real civic event. Maybe bring back the Elizabethan penalty for treason- half-hanged, castrated, disemboweled, then drawn and quartered... or maybe just burning at the stake, or stoning, or being broken on the wheel, having the fractured limbs laced thru the spokes... or slow dipping in boiling oil, like the ancient kings of morocco practiced, or go all the way, straight to roman crucifixion... or staked to an anthill...

Lots of fun ways to satisfy that good old blood lust... real "Family Values" kind of entertainment...

 

[Stunt]

"Humane Capital Punishment"

Oxymoron?

 

[Ferocious]

Methods of capital punishment would make no difference to an already convicted criminal or even to someone contemplating a crime.

Gee, I might not pull this trigger today cuz of 'how' I might be executed years from now.

Puhleeze.

 

[eilute]

Originally posted by: Stunt
"Humane Capital Punishment"

Oxymoron?

There's stoning and burning at the stake.

 

[raildogg]

So what you want is the electric chair? Or the hanging system? Should we read up those books detailing the torture techniques in the 14th century? Should we do what our enemies do?

I believe we should do the opposite and do what is right. I think since America is such an advanced country, for the most part, we should not resort back to 20th and earlier centries. The lethal injection is fine. We are not a third world country that needs to hang a criminal.

Torture is not a good thing either. They practice torture in most of the despotic 3rd world countries. I want my country to be anything but that. Our title as the world's superpower depends on that. We should always act like a superpower, not some third world country. Either act like it or not be a superpower at all. For the most part, our record has been great recently compared to some of the other countries. We need to do better.

Physical torture is definately not allowed in my opinion. Psychological torture is another thing but sometimes its impact is equal. Does it take more money to not resort back to ancient techniques of putting someone to death or torturing them? Yes, but like I said, we are a superpower and must act like it.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: silent tone
Intuitively, it seems that execution by lowering a person into a meat grinder would have a deterrent effect. However there is some evidence that any capital punishment at all has little effect on crime statistics.

It doesn't, because people don't think they're going to be caught. If they did, they wouldn't have commited the crime in the first place.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: raildogg
So what you want is the electric chair? Or the hanging system? Should we read up those books detailing the torture techniques in the 14th century? Should we do what our enemies do?

I believe we should do the opposite and do what is right. I think since America is such an advanced country, for the most part, we should not resort back to 20th and earlier centries. The lethal injection is fine. We are not a third world country that needs to hang a criminal.

Torture is not a good thing either. They practice torture in most of the despotic 3rd world countries. I want my country to be anything but that. Our title as the world's superpower depends on that. We should always act like a superpower, not some third world country. Either act like it or not be a superpower at all. For the most part, our record has been great recently compared to some of the other countries. We need to do better.

Physical torture is definately not allowed in my opinion. Psychological torture is another thing but sometimes its impact is equal. Does it take more money to not resort back to ancient techniques of putting someone to death or torturing them? Yes, but like I said, we are a superpower and must act like it.

I couldn't agree more.

And beyond that, there is some question as to whether any deterence would really help the murder rate. Many (most?) murders are crimes of passion or desperation, I doubt a whole lot of logical reasoning and thoughts about the future go into it.

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: eilute
Well there's still the gas chamber the electric chair. They might both be more painful than a firing squad. I suppose that if they wanted to make it less humane they could stop giving death row inmates a sedative prior to execution.

I don't think that there is anything stopping states from hanging criminals if they want.

I think Utah is the only state that uses all 20th century means of execution.
Firing Squad
Gas Chamber
Electric Chair
Hanging
Lethal Injection.



I'd say the firing squad is the most humane. A shot between the eyes and you never know what hit you.

Although it can aslo be inhumane, just have a few marines who failed their marksmen qualifications and all the ammo they want(Or a LAPD cop) do the shooting.

 

[Jhhnn]

The one thing most capital punishment advocates like to forget is that it's a very expensive process, which isn't likely to change anytime RSN- and that's probably as it should be. The days of cheap and convenient capital punishment are long gone.

It's really a lot less expensive to lock somebody up for the rest of their natural life than to shell out the money to actually execute them... which might explain why Texas is at the bottom of the whole education ladder... spending too much to execute the products of their school system to improve the school system...

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The one thing most capital punishment advocates like to forget is that it's a very expensive process, which isn't likely to change anytime RSN- and that's probably as it should be. The days of cheap and convenient capital punishment are long gone.

It's really a lot less expensive to lock somebody up for the rest of their natural life than to shell out the money to actually execute them... which might explain why Texas is at the bottom of the whole education ladder... spending too much to execute the products of their school system to improve the school system...

Well that's because the systtem is screwed up. Why does it take 20 years to off someone? The appearls process needs to be streamlined. Once your appeals are over,
"lights out mofo"

 

[rickn]

I'd rather just have my head chopped offed instantly other than electric chair or gas chamber. stoning, way to much pain. not sure about hanging, I imagine you die from fright before you suffocate.

 

[Jhhnn]

Like I said, Yoshi Sato, that's not likely to change anytime RSN... So there are lots of non-realistic proposals out there, including yours, which merely promote the status quo... and a lot of wasteful spending in service to simple bloodlust...

As a citizen, I can understand that there are some people who should never be allowed back into society, and as a taxpayer, I want the least expensive humane methods to accomplish that- capital punishment doesn't fit in the latter category, at all.

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Like I said, Yoshi Sato, that's not likely to change anytime RSN... So there are lots of non-realistic proposals out there, including yours, which merely promote the status quo... and a lot of wasteful spending in service to simple bloodlust...

As a citizen, I can understand that there are some people who should never be allowed back into society, and as a taxpayer, I want the least expensive humane methods to accomplish that- capital punishment doesn't fit in the latter category, at all.

Well next time a child rapest/murder gets set loose we'll ship em to your neighborhood.

And don't give me that life without parole crap either. Politics can change in 5 or 10 years and set him free do to a mental defect and he could be allow to roam freely.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, Yoshi Sato, how many child rapist/murderers were executed last year? How many were actually set free from some process other than improper conduct by the state in their prosecution? How many such acts were there, anyway? What sort of historical examples can you offer to back up your pov?

Invoking the boogeyman is a pretty common tactic from capital punishment advocates- you seem to represent that scenario as common, when it's anything but. The vast majority of people on death row don't fit that profile, at all.

 

[YoshiSato]

Executed by who? The state or the prision system?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: YoshiSato
Executed by who? The state or the prision system?

If you don't let the appeals process run fully, you will execute even more innocent people than you do now.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nice dodge, YoshiSato. I'll take both numbers, along with the rest, if you think you can come up with them...