Huang Primes NV40 Hype Machine

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
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http://www.beyond3d.com/#news10574
When looking at the performance element of NV4x, Jen-Hsun expects the performance increment from the previous generation to be dramatically higher than any previous architectural transition they have previously been through. Indeed, presumably speaking about NV40 specifically, NVIDIA?s CEO states that "if we?re not a lot more than 2 times faster I?m going to be very disappointed".
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In the NV1x and NV2x generation more or less one two distinct processors were introduced and produced at the same time, with the NV3x architecture this increased to 3 processors, however Jen-Hsun made note that potentially as many as 5 distinct NV4x graphics processors may be in production at any one time.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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Positive for Nvidia:
If Nvidia truly exceeds customer's expectations and supersedes technologically in comparison to its competitor while providing an evolutionary performance-driven experience to what is currently perceived or expected, then ATI will regret not hyping their product during the early months (ie current time period) which could otherwise draw some attention away from what could possibly be NV's walk of fame for the following year. If ATI does not present any positive performance-related information about its product some time in the near future, and nVidia card lives up to the hype, the next round will be a walk over.
***Food for Thought:
Of course ATI could be optimistic in their card's performance further solidifying their reasoning for not presenting information on the basis of them not worrying about the competition. But it could also mean that ATI is simply unable to counter with similar dramatic claims of performance improvements.

Negative for Nvidia:
On the other hand, if Nvidia continues to relentlessly generate publicity and media excitement which proves to be unjustified (ie. nowhere near claimed 7-9x performance in Doom 3 and X times in Half-Life 2), with the videocard not being able to deliver "at least" double the performance in intensive-based applications as the previous generation product line, it will help to severely diminish loyalty and trust in the customers point-of-view.

Final Thoughts:
With that in mind, it would be very unwise for such an experienced and dominant graphics card company to make false statements regarding its future product by providing exaggerated information which can potentially prove detrimental as in this competitive market segment two consecutive "flops" could be crucial in the eyes of the customer who expects so much. Even though Nvidia did claim that their 5800 and the current FX product lines are unmatched in performance, and history has shown otherwise, personally I question the management's ability to make the same mistake again. Without question, a similar outcome would absolutely tilt the tides towards ATI and I wonder if Nvidia will be able to come back into the race once more. Thus, I believe that this time their product has to be better than ATIs, both to regain the marketshare and backup the continuous and often unbelievable performance hype; otherwise, the credibility of the company will be simply dissolved.

Just my 2 cents.
 

KGB1

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2001
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hmm... I wonder if Hunag finally got around to smokin' what aTI was smoking? (Considering his statements about R300 architecture compared to Nv30)

Hehe.. that guy is a bigger bulsh!tter than Donald Trump. ;)
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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Interesting times coming. The NV40 sounds like it is going to be much faster, but at the same time ATI is not exactly acting like a company that is in trouble. I would really like to read a review of someone who has actually tried one of these future cards.
 

SilverTrine

Senior member
May 27, 2003
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Huang doesnt sound at all positive: 'isnt twice as fast i'll be very surprised'? What kind of comment is that, the card is supposed to be released very soon surely he should have a good idea exactly how it performs.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: KGB
hmm... I wonder if Hunag finally got around to smokin' what aTI was smoking? (Considering his statements about R300 architecture compared to Nv30)

Hehe.. that guy is a bigger bulsh!tter than Donald Trump. ;)
That is a bit harsh. nVIDIA had one year weren't the absolute hands down dominator in the video card arena, and all of sudden then need to take a lesson from ATi!?! I don't think so... I agree that with some of the stuff that has transpired in the past year, everyone's faith in vNIDIA has slipped a little bit. On the otherhand, nVIDIA has been treating us very well for the past few years with products that were better than anything else. Even as a newcomer in other area's, chipsets for example, they paved the way for dual channel, and showed longtime contender VIA what a chipset could be with the nForce2. I agree that the FX5800 was quite a disappointment, but nVIDIA picked up the pieces very quickly and gave us the FX5900. This wasn't quite as fast as ATi's offerings, but never suffered from the driver issues that plagued ATi. Also, with the recent release of the Volari V8 Duo and it's lackluster performance, it is also very clear to see that coming out with new chips on the schedule that they do is a non-trival tast. I imagine that both ATi and nVIDIA offices are pounding with hype just to keep the energy level up.

The link to my rig is in my sig, but you needn't bother look it up, I run a nVIDIA card. That being said, I am not a fanboy of anyone and have had a number of RADEONs in the past, with my last being the excellent 9700 Pro. I don't want to see anyone company pull ahead too much to keep the compettition alive, but I do think that nVIDIA has at least earned our respect for what they have done for the graphics industry in the past. Now, if the NV40 flops like the FX5800, it might be a different situation.
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
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I got this radical idea. Let's all wait for Anand to bench the damn things. Then we'll even know performance numbers!!!$JKNF*@!!```!~~```!1
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: SilverTrine
Huang doesnt sound at all positive: 'isnt twice as fast i'll be very surprised'? What kind of comment is that, the card is supposed to be released very soon surely he should have a good idea exactly how it performs.

That's the funny thing about making videocards. It's all done doing computer simulations of what it should run like. Nobody knows if it will even work until they tape it out and make some alpha silicon. Until that time, it's all just theory. Very interesting business.

I still won't pay over $200 for a videocard. My latest $199.99 9800Pro has taught me it's best to wait for the prices to come down and let other guys beta-test hardware for you. :p
 

Pete

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Review samples appear to be making the rounds already, thus the exclamations from several people "in the know" (like Anand).
 

nRollo

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Jan 11, 2002
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That is a bit harsh. nVIDIA had one year weren't the absolute hands down dominator in the video card arena, and all of sudden then need to take a lesson from ATi!?! I don't think so... I agree that with some of the stuff that has transpired in the past year, everyone's faith in vNIDIA has slipped a little bit.
Agreed. I get way tired of this "nVidia is doomed" bs too.

I agree that the FX5800 was quite a disappointment, but nVIDIA picked up the pieces very quickly and gave us the FX5900. This wasn't quite as fast as ATi's offerings, but never suffered from the driver issues that plagued ATi.
Disagree. The 5800 line competed well with the 9700 line. It wasn't nVidia's fault TSMC couldn't get their act together on the .13 micron, DX9 still isn't an issue, and the 5800s were capable of running 4X8X about as well as the 9700s. Some cards had an issue with noise, but the Leadtek, Abit, and Gainward models did not, nor did any 5800NUs.

Now, if the NV40 flops like the FX5800, it might be a different situation.
The 5800 flopped based on bad press, largely from nVidia themselves.



 

g3pro

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
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i was also thinking 16x2 is what they're going to do. ;)

at least 8x2 or maybe 12x2. any way Nv does it, there will be pwnage of ATi in stores soon. :D
 

ScrewFace

Banned
Sep 21, 2002
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They (both ATI and nVidia) have to make at least 8 pixel pipelines with 2 texture units per pipeline. This would allow us to play games that use multi-texturing (the majority) at 1600x1200 8xAF and 4x FSAA.:D:)
 

Serp86

Senior member
Oct 12, 2002
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" but never suffered from the driver issues that plagued ATi"

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. The only problem i had with my 9700pro was medieval not getting past he main menu, and this was fixed after 2 weeks.

The Catalyst crew are working overtime, and are producing better drivers than nvidia' (i am not going to mention cheating....ooooopppppssss).
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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The Catalyst crew are working overtime, and are producing better drivers than nvidia' (i am not going to mention cheating....ooooopppppssss).



Not once have I had any issues with any games with my Nvidia card.

BTW if somebody didnt spoonfeed you what is being cheated on would you even notice?
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: Genx87
The Catalyst crew are working overtime, and are producing better drivers than nvidia' (i am not going to mention cheating....ooooopppppssss).



Not once have I had any issues with any games with my Nvidia card.

BTW if somebody didnt spoonfeed you what is being cheated on would you even notice?

Ok, let's just end this before it gets any worse. Neither company makes a perfect card or perfect drivers. If you think otherwise, you're a fanboy and a fool at that.
Secondly, on the Nvidia cheating fiascos: obviously someone out there had to notice all the cheats Nvidia put in their drivers or they never would have come out. All those articles didn't just write themselves, afterall. Oh, and on a side-note: that's just about the saddest fanboy statement I've heard in a long time. "if somebody didn't spoonfeed you what is being cheated on would you even notice?" I sincerely hope that was a joke... It's people like you that are ultimately responsible for the cheating that is rampant in the video card industry. If everyone in the market for a new video card had been informed of the fiascos and saw them for what they were, rather than brushing them aside because of some foolish allegiance to a corporation, there might not even be an Nvidia right now. You simply cannot excuse what Nvidia has done as anything less than purposeful, repeated cheating.
Oh, and just to clarify my choice in video cards (since I'm sure it will come up) I use an ATI Radeon 9600 AIW Pro in my system, and love it :) I've used quite a few graphics cards over the past several years, everything from an Nvidia Riva128ZX 8MB AGP card to my current Radeon 9600 AIW Pro.
Nvidia cards I've owned:
TNT2 M64
Geforce 2 Pro 64MB
Geforce 4 Ti 4200
Geforce FX 5200

ATI cards I've owned:
Radeon LE 32MB DDR
Radeon 9600 AIW Pro

others:
3dfx voodoo3 3000
random junk integrated chips (sis, s3, cirrus logic)

I am by no means a fanboy of either corporation, as you can see. I just can't forgive Nvidia for what they've done in recent memory. If NV4x absolutely crushes R420 in terms of performance AND image quality, then I will gladly switch back to Nvidia. I buy whichever card is the best bang for the buck and fits in my budget. I don't much care who makes it, as long as it's fast, reliable, and has good image quality.

-just my two cents
 

SilverTrine

Senior member
May 27, 2003
312
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NV40, optimizing to the n power.

You work here so you have to watch your P's and Q's, I'll spell it out for the people not in the know: Nv40, cheating to the n power'.

Oh and for all the people saying that the 5800/5900 were as good as ATi's cards get real, Nvidia only stayed close with exotic cooling, exotic ram, and flat out cheating. They'd better damn well have a totally new architecture and they better not try to cheat so blatantly this time around I have a feeling they wont get away with it the second time around.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
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Originally posted by: SilverTrine
NV40, optimizing to the n power.

You work here so you have to watch your P's and Q's, I'll spell it out for the people not in the know: Nv40, cheating to the n power'.

Oh and for all the people saying that the 5800/5900 were as good as ATi's cards get real, Nvidia only stayed close with exotic cooling, exotic ram, and flat out cheating. They'd better damn well have a totally new architecture and they better not try to cheat so blatantly this time around I have a feeling they wont get away with it the second time around.

By your logic, all modern CPUs cheat for requiring more cooling than their predecessors. And we should all be running PC66 DRAM. And forget about SSE/MMX/3DN/SSE2/SSE3
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Serp86
" but never suffered from the driver issues that plagued ATi"

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. The only problem i had with my 9700pro was medieval not getting past he main menu, and this was fixed after 2 weeks.

The Catalyst crew are working overtime, and are producing better drivers than nvidia' (i am not going to mention cheating....ooooopppppssss).

Need for speed underground, Halo, Call of Duty, and Wolf:ET all had problems with ATi drivers on their release.

And Horizons is still unplayable on all DX9 ATi cards.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
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Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SilverTrine
NV40, optimizing to the n power.

You work here so you have to watch your P's and Q's, I'll spell it out for the people not in the know: Nv40, cheating to the n power'.

Oh and for all the people saying that the 5800/5900 were as good as ATi's cards get real, Nvidia only stayed close with exotic cooling, exotic ram, and flat out cheating. They'd better damn well have a totally new architecture and they better not try to cheat so blatantly this time around I have a feeling they wont get away with it the second time around.

By your logic, all modern CPUs cheat for requiring more cooling than their predecessors. And we should all be running PC66 DRAM. And forget about SSE/MMX/3DN/SSE2/SSE3

No. Yuo aer teh suck at teh analogies!!!!1111one
Nvidia cheated, and continues to cheat by producing lower image quality than is requested by the user. They don't call it "Forceware" for no reason ;)
Exotic ram and cooling solutions, undoubtedly, are *NOT* cheating.