HSF For mATX System...AMD Stock Isn't Doing it For me

[jorwex]

I've got an Athlon 1.33 ghz cpu in an Aopen H340D. Here's some pics from newegg..no digital camera... I'm not sure if it was the cooling, but for some reason WinXp wouldnt install unless I clocked it down to 1.0 ghz I've remounted the heatsink a few times, so it aint that.

Theres about 1/2 a cm of breathing room in the case with the AMD stock stuff, and its about 46 IDLE! Scare's me, cuz its not even mine, if something goes wrong...im gonna get blamed if it blows up.

I need good..SMALL low profile hsf. 1u i guess. any recommendations?

 

[mechBgon]

First of all, there are no motherboards I know of where you should be panicking at a 46C idle reading when using a stock AMD heatsink. Granted, the accuracy of motherboards CPU-temperature readings makes me go -->

Considering the small, poorly-ventilated case, it's a wonder it's not significantly higher than that.

If you removed a stock AMD heatsink, then you DO need to scrape off all of the stock phase-change thermal pad and replace it with high-quality thermal grease. Those pads are good for one use only.

As for the Windows installation problems, I suspect that your problem is the 200-watt power supply. Those old Thunderbirds are power-hungry fellows and I would be getting a respected brand of 300W+ power supply to power one, if it were me. Antec, Enermax, Sparkle Power and Heroichi are some brands that have proven themselves in the real world. AOpen is probably not bad either, but 200W... Here, let me tow a house trailer with a Geo Metro...

Anyway, hope that's some help, and if you do want a high-end low-profile SocketA heatsink, check out RackMountPro.com.

 

[jorwex]

Hey,

thanks for the info. i just checked the cpu w/ mbm5 and its at 50 now, idle. I think its cuz the person who uses the pc keeps it on all day and night. oh and before i put the heatsink on, i very carefully got rid of the thermal pad and replaced it with arctic silver ceramique.

any particular QUIET good cooler? Quietness is a big factor because its in her small bedroom. THANKS!

 

[jorwex]

one more thing, i checked newegg before when i thought this might be a power issue (i try not to go anyplace else ) and i couldnt find any mATX psu bigger than 200watts

 

[cheapgoose]

Originally posted by: jorwex
one more thing, i checked newegg before when i thought this might be a power issue (i try not to go anyplace else ) and i couldnt find any mATX psu bigger than 200watts

I don't think I've ever seen any matx psu over 220 to 230 watts.

 

[Boogak]

Directron.com has a couple of 250w mATX power supplies, including an Enermax. I recently bought a mATX case from Compgeeks.com that came with a 300w mATX power supply, believe it or not. The one I bought is not in stock anymore, but they do have another model available. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the power supply either, 50C idle is hot but not life threatening to the CPU (my old 1.4ghz Thunderbird would max at over 60C running SETI 24x7 and I never had a problem with it).

 

[jorwex]

sweet, thanks guys...

any recommendations on the 1u hsf tho? 50-60 is kinda getting there, and I'm gonna be moving soon, so i wanna get this pc working at a low temp so i dont have to make a trip back here if possible..etc...thanks!

could that power issue really be the reason for the 1330 to 1000 downclock that i had to do?

 

[Zepper]

Compgeeks.com has a 320W mATX PSU. A good low profile HSF is the Thermal Integration V77L at SVC.com. And I also recommend using one of Arctic Silver's products instead of any thermal pad. SVC.com also has those at good prices.
.bh.

 

[jorwex]

Originally posted by: Boogak
I recently bought a mATX case from Compgeeks.com that came with a 300w mATX power supply, believe it or not.

i checked that link and there's no manufacturer on that page...can u possibly check what it is for that case so i can find out what kinda psu its got? or maybe u know the model of that psu offhand? thanks

 

[Zepper]

see my message above - we were probably posting at the same time so you missed it. The Geeks occasionally have the Arrow 300W but now the have the one I mentioned and the 230W Powmax(Leadman).
.bh.

 

[jorwex]

sweet

which would you recommend for the psu? again, something quiet is a priority, but also th whole point of this change is teh heat..so..erg..

 

[mechBgon]

Have you considered using a standard ATX case & power supply? Inwin's S-series would set you back $61 including shipping, and comes with a respectable Powerman 300W power supply and an 80mm exhaust fan, for example. That's much more suitable to a 1.33GHz Thunderbird generating 63W of heat, instead of a little bitty hatbox case with no exhaust fan.

 

[jorwex]

yea, nah i can't really change the case at this point. it was supposed to be a very low budget project. that TI-V77L looks pretty cool. i like that switch it has to lower the whole unit. its still like 46 mm tall tho..not sure if the amd one is too much bigger than that. thanks for your help.id appreciate any more suggestions tho

 

[Cerb]

If it's a Thunderbird 1.33GHz, and not an XP 1500+, 46 idle doesn't sound too bad...and really, your best bet would be to get a 1500+ to 1800+ Palomino or (better yet) TBred.
50-60 is fine, even around here, for a TBird. If you don't feel safe, a different CPU is really the best way to go, because even with great airflow, those things run HOT.
For a heatsink, you should check SVC for a nice selection, but I really don't think you can do much better in that small case unless you use a SLK-900 and make a custom duct out to the PSU for it . A TT Silent Boost might do it if it has enough height.

 

[Jhhnn]

1. I'd suspect memory problems concerning the loading of windows, rather than the psu. The newegg pics show a fsp model number- fortron source power, and matx supplies don't really get any better, no matter what kind of rating the manufacturer supplies... It may well be on the light side for a classic athlon, but you're not going to find anything better that will actually fit in that case...

2. Doesn't look like that box breathes very well at all. Might try removing the slot covers in the rear to allow for better airflow, ty-rap some 1/4" mesh hardware cloth over the inside of the openings to keep out small fingers and paws... might even be able to improvise mounting for an 80mm intake fan to complement the psu exhaust fan- depends...

3. By 1/2 cm clearance, I take it you mean between the top of the hsf and the bottom of the cdrom, correct? If so, you're pretty well toast, as the stock tbird coolers use low profile fans, anyway. This cooler works well, but probably isn't much better than stock, and has pretty much the same fan as stock- 1u coolers don't really work as well as stock-

http://www.kdcomputers.com/eui/prime/profile/809/76/component.htm

Smarter to go back to Newegg, get an Inwin v508 or v523 box and a speeze falconrock cooler- very few low profile boxes have decent cooling, annnd the one you're dealing with definitely does not...

 

[Wuzup101]

I'd have to agree with Jhhnn... memory would be my first concern if I was unable to load windows. In my experiences, faulty memory is almost always to blame for a botched windows load.

 

[mechBgon]

If you want to test the memory, go to http://www.memtest86.com and download their boot-floppy or boot-CD creator and let that run for a couple of passes. If it finds errors, you might try bumping the memory voltage a little bit, like 0.1-0.2 volts over stock (stock voltage for most PC100/PC133 being 3.3 volts, and 2.5 volts for DDR PC2100/2700, I don't know what you've got). Or (duh) try some different memory modules if you have some others Good luck!


*still looks suspiciously at 200W power supply, which provides the power to the memory too *

 

[jorwex]

hey,

yea, when i first got the box running i thouht it was the ram and let memtest run for about a day...equal parts of the day going for each stick at a time, and both at the same time. not a single error.

as for the gap thats in there, its between the top of the fan and the case, not the cdrom, but th same problem applies.

also, im not using a tbird stock cooler. When i put an slk800u in my own personal pc, i took out its stock xp 2500+ hsf...and then put that amd cooler in this mATX pc.

mbm5 still says 35 for mobo and 50 for cpu. at this poitn i'd say i only have a little money to spend for this solution, cuz its not my pc..i just built it. i'd really like to keep the case if possible, or at least replace it with a small case. so either i need to replace it with a tiny case too, or invest in a better hsf...whichever is best for the money. also, since that prob w/ xp, i havent clocked the cpu back up to its stock 1.33 ghz...i take it i shouldnt tho.

thanks for everyones help thus far, i know im not helping too much, but im really limited by th money i can spend to fix this. thanks

 

[mechBgon]

Do you have a dollar figure in mind that you want to stay within? I guess there's still the question of what you need too... we've got heatsinks, cases, power supplies and memory modules flyin' around in here. The stock 2500+ heatsink is actually not bad, if it's the one like mine pictured here. It's got a nickel-plated copper base, although the finish is not so great.

If you want a case upgrade, then consider an Inwin V-series microATX case with a 250W Powerman power supply ($48 shipped), or the Inwin S-series full-sized ATX case with 300W Powerman power supply ($56 shipped). Even the little V-series can take a full-sized ATX power supply, and both cases come with an 80mm exhaust fan in addition to the power supply's exhaust fan, plus a duct that brings outside air directly to your CPU fan (see photos). They're well-built too.

If you want a low-profile heatsink/fan unit, check RackmountPro.com for SocketA/Socket462 HSF units, but don't expect them to be quieter than what you've got now. Alternate solution, continue to underclock the CPU to 1.0GHz or below in order to reduce its power draw and heat output.

 

[Davegod]

You could try running it "in the open" (out of the case, or with case doors open), perhaps even with a house fan pointed at it. If that makes it stable, its the heat, if it doesnt then heat is unlikely (barring a botched HSF install).

Likewise, temporarily you could try running it connected to a proven ATX PSU.

 

[jarsoffart]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
First of all, there are no motherboards I know of where you should be panicking at a 46C idle reading when using a stock AMD heatsink. Granted, the accuracy of motherboards CPU-temperature readings makes me go -->

Considering the small, poorly-ventilated case, it's a wonder it's not significantly higher than that.

If you removed a stock AMD heatsink, then you DO need to scrape off all of the stock phase-change thermal pad and replace it with high-quality thermal grease. Those pads are good for one use only.

As for the Windows installation problems, I suspect that your problem is the 200-watt power supply. Those old Thunderbirds are power-hungry fellows and I would be getting a respected brand of 300W+ power supply to power one, if it were me. Antec, Enermax, Sparkle Power and Heroichi are some brands that have proven themselves in the real world. AOpen is probably not bad either, but 200W... Here, let me tow a house trailer with a Geo Metro...

Anyway, hope that's some help, and if you do want a high-end low-profile SocketA heatsink, check out RackMountPro.com.

He is using a Sparkle Power power supply. If you look at the model number, it begins with FSP, a telltale sign of a Fortron Source Group power supply, which is essentially a SPI power supply. Either way, a 200-watt unit does seem a bit low for a Tbird 1.33ghz.

 

[mechBgon]

This is the kind of thread that makes the Forums so great... many people drawing from their real-life knowledge and observations to help someone out. Maybe we play tug-of-war with the n00b sometimes, but it's all good

 

[jorwex]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
This is the kind of thread that makes the Forums so great... many people drawing from their real-life knowledge and observations to help someone out. Maybe we play tug-of-war with the n00b sometimes, but it's all good

o cool... i was beginning to feel selfish cuz the thread was getting to drag on a bit ...but n00b? low blow

so i'd say i cant spend more than 30 bucks. i know thats really limited... also with those cases recomended at newegg at least...i kinda want the case to be small if possible (AGAIN with the limited something). i might be wrong, but it seems a tad big? so either i get a new case (which i'd kinda prefer to keep), or get a new heatsink. which do u think is better for like 30 to 40 bucks? i guess if i got the case, it'd come with a better watt psu too...hrmm


thanks! damn mATX....

 

[jorwex]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Alternate solution, continue to underclock the CPU to 1.0GHz or below in order to reduce its power draw and heat output.

btw its always been underclocked since i installed windows. maybe u meant that tho...just wanted to clear that up tho. thanks!

 

[mechBgon]

Hehe, no offense meant on the n00b label Well I think you have the options pretty well laid out, and of course one option is to stick with what's working + paid-for, which is to settle for an underclocked 1.0GHz Athlon (still not that awful bad).

What would make your CPU run at full 1.33GHz still remains to be seen... more power? ...or better cooling, and if so, by improving the case or by improving the heatsink/fan unit? In the bigger picture, if the motherboard supports Thoroughbred AthlonXPs, then get a Thoroughbred AthlonXP 1700+ and you'll have a faster system that puts out about 25% less CPU heat (46 watts versus 62 watts). The For Sale/Trade section of the Forums probably has some used ones up for grabs, even.

If you tell us what your mobo is, we can advise you on the upgrade options.