Homerboy
Lifer
- Mar 1, 2000
- 30,890
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ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,674
- 17,279
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Great! Who is proposing such standards along with the voucher system? Last I checked, Republicans were all about education being administered at the state level with no federal intervention. Did that suddenly change?
I see two issues with wide spread voucher system and I haven't really seen a good solution to either.
1) Let's say the voucher is $2k and you run a school with tuition of $2k. You have three options as I see it:
a) Keep tuition at $2k, assuming you always had some kind of standard for entry now you just let the best people in regardless of ability to pay thanks to vouchers. I think, in general, this is what everyone wants to have happen. The next two cases reflect the typically conservative issues with welfare and other handouts.
b) Make tuition $3k (or some other number less than $4k). Now some kids can't get in no matter but some kids that couldn't swing $2k but can make $1k can make it in. Plus you've increased funding 50%, yay!
c) Make tuition $4k. Nothing in your enrollment changes at all but you've doubled your funding. Those that could always afford private now get an even better education, those that could never swing $2k still can't so they see no change here.
For most school's I can't see why you wouldn't go with c), or maybe b). But why stagnate funding with new funding available. As a parent that could afford private school I'd want c) every time and I'm already your customer.
2) Let's say you've got 25 students per teacher in a public school. Assume the top 5 (since private schools are selective) go away. Now you've got 20 students per teach but you've lost 20% of your funding. Facilities and such are fixed cost so you cut programs or teachers. So you do that, back to 25 students per teacher. The % of students that will need more help has increased but the available help has gone down. The school will do measurably worse and spiral to its end through no fault of its own.
Overall it seems like voucher programs would give the most help to those that need it the least and the least help to those that need it the most. As education is the heart of the American dream I'm not sure how this doesn't just promote institutional/generational poverty. But maybe someone can clarify.
1) Let's say the voucher is $2k and you run a school with tuition of $2k. You have three options as I see it:
a) Keep tuition at $2k, assuming you always had some kind of standard for entry now you just let the best people in regardless of ability to pay thanks to vouchers. I think, in general, this is what everyone wants to have happen. The next two cases reflect the typically conservative issues with welfare and other handouts.
b) Make tuition $3k (or some other number less than $4k). Now some kids can't get in no matter but some kids that couldn't swing $2k but can make $1k can make it in. Plus you've increased funding 50%, yay!
c) Make tuition $4k. Nothing in your enrollment changes at all but you've doubled your funding. Those that could always afford private now get an even better education, those that could never swing $2k still can't so they see no change here.
For most school's I can't see why you wouldn't go with c), or maybe b). But why stagnate funding with new funding available. As a parent that could afford private school I'd want c) every time and I'm already your customer.
2) Let's say you've got 25 students per teacher in a public school. Assume the top 5 (since private schools are selective) go away. Now you've got 20 students per teach but you've lost 20% of your funding. Facilities and such are fixed cost so you cut programs or teachers. So you do that, back to 25 students per teacher. The % of students that will need more help has increased but the available help has gone down. The school will do measurably worse and spiral to its end through no fault of its own.
Overall it seems like voucher programs would give the most help to those that need it the least and the least help to those that need it the most. As education is the heart of the American dream I'm not sure how this doesn't just promote institutional/generational poverty. But maybe someone can clarify.
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
- 14,359
- 4,640
- 136
Yes, if so I'm just slow on the uptake today..... or maybe not just today
Sorry it was not clear. I was meant to be taken as something not likely to happen. I thought the 'Single-Payer Education!' quip made it clear it was tongue in cheek.
I have a lot of strong opinions concerning education. In the end I don't like the voucher programs because I think they will gut our public schools, which a lot of people will still have to depend on, but I agree with you on the weakness of our public school systems and the fact that parents should be able to have more say into what sort of school their children attend.
One of us is confused about what this bill does. I readily admit it could be me. The way I read the bill is that it intends to give block grants to states for them to give to qualifying children (parents). Could states attach requirements to acceptance of such vouchers? Education would still be administered at the state or local level as it is today. Don't we already provide federal money towards education this way for lunch / food programs etc?
Vouchers are a windfall & subsidy to people who already send their kids to private school. They're also an inducement for parents who can to pay the difference for private schools.
If you asked those same parents for a tax increase to have better public schools, they'd say no. If you told them that public schools are over funded they'd go for the tax cut because their kids go to private school.
The whole scam is designed to create profit centers & destroy the quality of public schools.
Greed knows no bounds. FYGM, suckers.
If you asked those same parents for a tax increase to have better public schools, they'd say no. If you told them that public schools are over funded they'd go for the tax cut because their kids go to private school.
The whole scam is designed to create profit centers & destroy the quality of public schools.
Greed knows no bounds. FYGM, suckers.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,674
- 17,279
- 136
Sure states could implement their own standards and I'd suspect liberal states will/have, I don't have the same confidence for red states.
More accountability removed:
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/2017/T...-students/id-4e8b3e6ef988458ba854bb521c81dbe1
Wealthy people won't qualify for vouchers, so it makes no difference to them. People with lesser means struggling to send their kids to private schools and people who can't afford to send their kids to private schools would benefit.
True, and that's a feature not a bug.
From my post earlier in this thread:
None of those reasons would change or go away if you allocate more money to public schools to make them better. No matter how much money you provide to the public school, I'd still send my kids to the private school of my choice. I think other parents should have that option as well.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,947
- 31,484
- 146
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,405
- 8,585
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have to make sure kids are fat and dumb
am i the only one that hated those things? so gross
Every voucher program I've seen has been means tested. I could be wrong, maybe it's not everywhere, but i know for sure here in Ohio edchoice is limited to low income children. I don't qualify, but I'm glad some lower income parents get options.
Chaotic42
Lifer
- Jun 15, 2001
- 35,164
- 2,317
- 126
Maybe vouchers don't accomplish what they're supposed to accomplish at all-
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/...shot&nl_art=0&nlid=69083013&ref=headline&te=1
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/...shot&nl_art=0&nlid=69083013&ref=headline&te=1
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