HR 610 - School Vouchers, Repeal of ESSA of 1965 and Repeal of Nutritional Standards

[MikeMike]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/610/text

This would repeal all things to do with nutritional standards from Barack's era.

Enable School Vouchers.

ESSA does the following:
Programs for struggling learners, AP classes, ESL classes, classes for minorities such as Native Americans, Rural Education, Education for the Homeless, School Safety (Gun-Free schools), Monitoring and Compliance and Federal Accountability Programs.

ESSA does the following for the disabled:
-Ensures access to the general education curriculum.
-Ensures access to accommodations on assessments.
-Ensures concepts of Universal Design for Learning
-Includes provisions that require local education agencies to provide evidence-based
interventions in schools with consistently underperforming subgroups.
-Requires states in Title I plans to address how they will improve conditions for learning including reducing incidents of bullying and harassment in schools, overuse of discipline practices and reduce the use of aversive behavioral interventions (such as restraints and seclusion).

Wtf is this bill?

 

[Jhhnn]

Vouchers are a great way to gut public schools & beat the cash out of upper middle class parents. They're also completely useless to people who can't come up with the difference to send their kids to private schools

 

[ivwshane]

Can't have schools being held responsible, now can we?

 

[Jhhnn]

Can't have schools being held responsible, now can we?

Sure we can, just so long as we hold public schools to a higher standard. than charter or voucherized private schools.

 

[ivwshane]

Sure we can, just so long as we hold public schools to a higher standard. than charter or voucherized private schools.

Who is this we? The Republicans? Surely you jest.

 

[HomerJS]

Who is this we? The Republicans? Surely you jest.

Private schools have the advantage of picking and choosing their students. When you cherry pick the best outcomes are higher. Public schools must take everyone.

 

[HomerJS]

Vouchers are a great way to gut public schools & beat the cash out of upper middle class parents. They're also completely useless to people who can't come up with the difference to send their kids to private schools

Notice how the right doesn't advocate vouchers to be a semester of education that can be used anywhere. Its always a $ amount that winds up being a windfall for upper middle and upper class families. They also get to keep their little darlings away from the riff-raff

 

[brycejones]

I also love the the desire to go back to the the halcyon days of overly processed school lunches that are absolutely crap nutritionally. The processed food companies of America are getting a return on their lobbying.

 

[Homerboy]

I also love the the desire to go back to the the halcyon days of overly processed school lunches that are absolutely crap nutritionally. The processed food companies of America are getting a return on their lobbying.

If I recall there was a thread around here somewhere where the right argued that schools were not in the business of providing quality meals for children - that the two were not intertwined.

 

[uallas5]

Pink Slime FTW!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime

 

[trenchfoot]

The private school industry, (of which both of my kids graduated from and received substantial scholarships from) wants public funds to help them get higher attendance rates (more profits) and run the public school system into the dirt.

Myself being a product of the public school system and are related to quite a few teachers and administrators thereof, fully support their efforts toward providing a solid base of educational opportunities to every child that wants one or are able to gain access to it.

Therein lies the bulk of the problems with the public school system. Like HomerJS mentioned, the system doesn't get to pick its students, especially those that were, for the myriad of reasons possible, never raised by their parents to understand that a better education leads to better jobs and futures. And because of this and other major problems that the public system has to deal with, it makes it very easy for the private school systems to exploit the public system's inherent vulnerabilities and attempt to redirect public school funding toward the private for profit schools.

DeVos was handpicked by the Trump machine to do just that.

Greed hath no bounds, and the Trump presidency is a perfect example of that credo. Everything for themselves and too bad for the peasants because they are peasants, after all.

 

[Jaskalas]

And because of this and other major problems that the public system has to deal with, it makes it very easy for the private school systems to exploit the public system's inherent vulnerabilities and attempt to redirect public school funding toward the private for profit schools.

Inherent vulnerabilities? I am curious as how this relates to their funding. Wouldn't the funding follow the students?
So the public schools may have fewer students, are you saying they're incapable of downsizing?
Is it volatility you hope to guard them from? Do public schools need a sort of minimum standard... a... basic income... to thrive?

 

[trenchfoot]

Inherent vulnerabilities? I am curious as how this relates to their funding. Wouldn't the funding follow the students?
So the public schools may have fewer students, are you saying they're incapable of downsizing?
Is it volatility you hope to guard them from? Do public schools need a sort of minimum standard... a... basic income... to thrive?

Just noticed your reply but need to get off the desk and on to the shop floor. Will ruminate on a reply as I work. See you on the next break.

 

[brycejones]

If I recall there was a thread around here somewhere where the right argued that schools were not in the business of providing quality meals for children - that the two were not intertwined.

Yes there was and it was mainly populated by simple minded dolts who have trouble imagining any situation but their own personal life experiences.

 

[BoomerD]

Coming from the party that tried to classify ketchup as a vegetable...why would anyone be surprised?

http://ketchupisavegetable.com/?page_id=20

 

[Double Trouble]

I favor giving parents a meaningful voice in the education of their children. I want my kids to be taught to my standards without the interruptions from kids who don't want to learn, without fear of violence and crime at school, and without having to slow everyone down to accommodate students whose parents don't want to be involved in their success. I want to know what they are being taught and I don't want to be forced to accept them being taught things I fundamentally disagree with for the sake of correctness. For that reason, I send them to a private school, I have the means to do it. Why shouldn't every parent have that same choice?

 

[ivwshane]

I favor giving parents a meaningful voice in the education of their children. I want my kids to be taught to my standards without the interruptions from kids who don't want to learn, without fear of violence and crime at school, and without having to slow everyone down to accommodate students whose parents don't want to be involved in their success. I want to know what they are being taught and I don't want to be forced to accept them being taught things I fundamentally disagree with for the sake of correctness. For that reason, I send them to a private school, I have the means to do it. Why shouldn't every parent have that same choice?

If they have the means to do it, as you do, then they should have a choice. The difference, of course, is that my tax dollars shouldn't be going to private institutions with zero oversight and accountability.

 

[Homerboy]

I favor giving parents a meaningful voice in the education of their children. I want my kids to be taught to my standards without the interruptions from kids who don't want to learn, without fear of violence and crime at school, and without having to slow everyone down to accommodate students whose parents don't want to be involved in their success. I want to know what they are being taught and I don't want to be forced to accept them being taught things I fundamentally disagree with for the sake of correctness. For that reason, I send them to a private school, I have the means to do it. Why shouldn't every parent have that same choice?

They do - if they have the money.

 

[fskimospy]

I favor giving parents a meaningful voice in the education of their children. I want my kids to be taught to my standards without the interruptions from kids who don't want to learn, without fear of violence and crime at school, and without having to slow everyone down to accommodate students whose parents don't want to be involved in their success. I want to know what they are being taught and I don't want to be forced to accept them being taught things I fundamentally disagree with for the sake of correctness. For that reason, I send them to a private school, I have the means to do it. Why shouldn't every parent have that same choice?

Empirical research shows that school voucher programs, unlike charter schools, are ineffective at improving student achievement. If you want to improve public education in a more conservative friendly way, charter schools are the way to go. This is just a waste of money.

 

[Double Trouble]

They do - if they have the money.

Why should that choice be limited to the wealthy? I got mine, too bad for other parents?

If they have the means to do it, as you do, then they should have a choice. The difference, of course, is that my tax dollars shouldn't be going to private institutions with zero oversight and accountability.

My tax dollars go to all sorts of things with no oversight and accountability. Doesn't Obamacare do the same, it sends taxpayer dollars to subsidize private insurance providers.

Empirical research shows that school voucher programs, unlike charter schools, are ineffective at improving student achievement. If you want to improve public education in a more conservative friendly way, charter schools are the way to go. This is just a waste of money.

I'm mostly uneducated in this field <no pun intended!>, but isn't a voucher program just giving someone money to let them send the kid to a private school or public school in another area? If nothing else, it gives parents choice into what and how their kids are taught. Even if overall achievement isn't changed it's still a positive.

 

[ivwshane]

Why should that choice be limited to the wealthy? I got mine, too bad for other parents?



My tax dollars go to all sorts of things with no oversight and accountability. Doesn't Obamacare do the same, it sends taxpayer dollars to subsidize private insurance providers.



I'm mostly uneducated in this field <no pun intended!>, but isn't a voucher program just giving someone money to let them send the kid to a private school or public school in another area? If nothing else, it gives parents choice into what and how their kids are taught. Even if overall achievement isn't changed it's still a positive.

Yeah? Like what?

No obamacare doesn't do the same thing as it required insurers to meet minimum standards and to cover people they wouldn't normally cover, as well as require a certain percentage revenue to go towards care.

 

[Double Trouble]

Yeah? Like what?

No obamacare doesn't do the same thing as it required insurers to meet minimum standards and to cover people they wouldn't normally cover, as well as require a certain percentage revenue to go towards care.

And who says there aren't minimum standards that can be attached to vouchers, just like we attach minimum standards to private insurance providers?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Inherent vulnerabilities? I am curious as how this relates to their funding. Wouldn't the funding follow the students?

All students do not require the same amount of funding to teach. A voucher program would take the lowest cost but highest contributing students away from the public schools while leaving the schools with the lowest contributing students with the highest cost to teach.

So the public schools may have fewer students, are you saying they're incapable of downsizing?

If the cost per student increases and the income per student decreases then downsizing will not help.

EDIT: To see this in action just look at any low income area school.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I favor giving parents a meaningful voice in the education of their children. I want my kids to be taught to my standards without the interruptions from kids who don't want to learn, without fear of violence and crime at school, and without having to slow everyone down to accommodate students whose parents don't want to be involved in their success. I want to know what they are being taught and I don't want to be forced to accept them being taught things I fundamentally disagree with for the sake of correctness. For that reason, I send them to a private school, I have the means to do it. Why shouldn't every parent have that same choice?

Cool, then we should just create a voucher system that is for 'one semester of school' and force every private school to accept it. The schools can then negotiate with the government for how much money they get for that voucher. Single-Payer Education!

 

[Double Trouble]

Cool, then we should just create a voucher system that is for 'one semester of school' and force every private school to accept it. The schools can then negotiate with the government for how much money they get for that voucher. Single-Payer Education!

Bullshit, you can't force private schools to accept it.