HP Touchpads in FS/FT

[SunnyD]

FS/FT forum rules explicitly state the following:

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No "dealers" or vendors of any kind. If you acquire items in quantity (bulk sales) with the intent of offering them for resale, here, you are a dealer under this rule. In addition, you may not place URL's in your posts, profile or signature that link to an offsite FS/T list.

---

Because of this, nearly ANY thread that is selling a HP Touchpad falls under this category at this time unless it's $99/$149 + shipping and maybe a reasonable charge to cover taxes/cost.

Please keep in mind that anyone that purchased multiple units and is reselling them at a profit absolutely falls under the vendor rule. There is zero room for ambiguity here. They bought them with intent to resell. In doing so, they very possibly prevented the very same people they are looking to profit off of from having the opportunity to purchase that same unit at the retail price. If they want to do this despicable practice, they should take it to the other haven for price-gouging slimebags (eBay/Craigslist).

Now, instead of "moderating" every single Touchpad thread, I propose a moratorium on the sale of HP Touchpads in FS/FT as a whole. It's the only way to ensure that the rules are followed without any loopholes to exploit.

Please note: I'm not bitter about not getting one, because I actually purchased and received two directly from HP. The difference is I have no intent on reselling either one.

Thanks for listening.



Closed because the trolls are coming out


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[cganesh75]

thanks sunny, we are already discussing this.

 

[MedicBob]

I do not mind paying someone for his/her time or effort in getting one for me if I was to buy one. I agree that the price should be "reasonable" compared to the cost of one. Now posting 3 or more starts to become a vendor or reseller.

Everyone is going to have a different thought on what is reasonable. I would prefer not to go somewhere else if I was looking for one.

 

[SunnyD]

Everyone is going to have a different thought on what is reasonable. I would prefer not to go somewhere else if I was looking for one.

The only problem with that is you're immediately giving these "vendors" a loophole by letting them post one, sell it, then post another, etc.

The only way to avoid this is a full on moratorium on Touchpad sales. There is previous precedent for this in FS/FT as well.

 

[Gillbot]

I do not mind paying someone for his/her time or effort in getting one for me if I was to buy one. I agree that the price should be "reasonable" compared to the cost of one. Now posting 3 or more starts to become a vendor or reseller.

Everyone is going to have a different thought on what is reasonable. I would prefer not to go somewhere else if I was looking for one.

The problem is, who is to determine what is fair and reasonable. Some may want paid for their effort and gas to get an item while others don't. The ONLY fair option is no sales.

 

[olds]

The only problem with that is you're immediately giving these "vendors" a loophole by letting them post one, sell it, then post another, etc.

...

It doesn't work like that. They post 1 (let's assume they actually have 5) for sale and then sell to the first 5 people they make a deal with. No one with a brain posts 5 different times.

 

[SunnyD]

It doesn't work like that. They post 1 (let's assume they actually have 5) for sale and then sell to the first 5 people they make a deal with. No one with a brain posts 5 different times.

That too. The only solution regardless is to not allow their sale here.

 

[Tristicus]

TBH, I don't see the problem with it. The buyer can determine what they are willing to pay, and if one isn't selling, the seller can just either keep it or lower their price, or take it to eBay. Many of us used a lot of time and gas to get these, so making an extra few dollars would be nice.

 

[Gillbot]

TBH, I don't see the problem with it. The buyer can determine what they are willing to pay, and if one isn't selling, the seller can just either keep it or lower their price, or take it to eBay. Many of us used a lot of time and gas to get these, so making an extra few dollars would be nice.

This is where the problem lies. WE cannot will not determine what is fair. One would argue that since you were going there to get one for yourself anyway, they shouldn't have to pay for your gas or time. Others may want to recoup their time, gas, shipping, handling, packing, etc..... The "reasons" are never ending and arguably debatable. Since WE are not ones to decide what is fair, it's easier to disallow their sales since most FS threads ultimately turn into a thread crap paradise with people arguing over what is or is not fair.

 

[SunnyD]

TBH, I don't see the problem with it. The buyer can determine what they are willing to pay, and if one isn't selling, the seller can just either keep it or lower their price, or take it to eBay. Many of us used a lot of time and gas to get these, so making an extra few dollars would be nice.

And by doing so you prevented someone else from having the opportunity to own one just so you can resell it at a profit... Potentially wasting the buyer's time and money in the process, thereby adding insult to injury (they didn't get one at cost and now they have to pay >2x what it's "worth").

Think about it this way - if you didn't bother you wouldn't have used ANY time or gas, so you wouldn't lose anything in the process. All you're providing is a disservice to the buyer.

The knife cuts both ways. This is the ONLY fair way to go.

 

[IlllI]

i woke up at 5am and stood in line 4 hours to get one.
if i were to sell it i would want a pretty penny for all that time and effort invested into getting one.

 

[allisolm]

The purpose of our FS/FT forum is not for folks to buy things and then sell them at a profit. That's why we have a "no dealers" rule. It's here so that our members have a place to sell items they own/use and no longer want and other members have a place to buy them.

 

[IlllI]

so you are only allowed to sell things that depreciate in value?

 

[SunnyD]

i woke up at 5am and stood in line 4 hours to get one.
if i were to sell it i would want a pretty penny for all that time and effort invested into getting one.

And the guy standing behind you in line that got up just as early and expended just as much effort who was the "unlucky" one because you got the last one gets what? To buy it from you at an inflated price just because you're a douche for buying something you had no intention of ever using?

 

[Gillbot]

so you are only allowed to sell things that depreciate in value?

No, but if your sole intention is to "make a buck", you would be considered a dealer.

 

[IlllI]

And the guy standing behind you in line that got up just as early and expended just as much effort who was the "unlucky" one because you got the last one gets what? To buy it from you at an inflated price just because you're a douche for buying something you had no intention of ever using?

so what if i stood in line then had some unforeseen financial troubles the next day like a fender bender. by your definition i would still be considered a 'douche' b/c i realize that there is a market to make a quick bit of cash even though my original intent was to keep it?

for the record i am just playing devils advocate. because i dont think this issue is very black and white.

the fact is there is a market/demand for them. some people spent a (debatable) amount of time+ effort getting one. and a fact that people are willing to pay more than what someone purchased it for. considering just a few weeks ago these were going for 4-500, plus dwindling supply, there seems to be a perceived value greater than 99-149 by the general public.

anyway, my opinion, is i think if a person sells 1 that would be ok. but if a person comes on here saying 'hey guys i have 20 to sell! pm me!' then that would not be allowed. just my opinion but that would seem to allow some flexibility while enforcing the general idea 🙂

well either that or just completely outlaw selling AND requesting to buy them in the forums. actually a person could probably make more profit selling them on ebay compared to here. i've seen some go as high as 400+ there.

 

[Gillbot]

so what if i stood in line then had some unforeseen financial troubles the next day like a fender bender. by your definition i would still be considered a 'douche' b/c i realize that there is a market to make a quick bit of cash even though my original intent was to keep it?

for the record i am just playing devils advocate. because i dont think this issue is very black and white.

the fact is there is a market/demand for them. some people spent a (debatable) amount of time+ effort getting one. and a fact that people are willing to pay more than what someone purchased it for. considering just a few weeks ago these were going for 4-500, plus dwindling supply, there seems to be a perceived value greater than 99-149 by the general public.

anyway, my opinion, is i think if a person sells 1 that would be ok. but if a person comes on here saying 'hey guys i have 20 to sell! pm me!' then that would not be allowed. just my opinion but that would seem to allow some flexibility while enforcing the general idea 🙂

well either that or just completely outlaw selling AND requesting to buy them in the forums. actually a person could probably make more profit selling them on ebay compared to here. i've seen some go as high as 400+ there.

Exactly, and that market is ebay not here.

 

[SunnyD]

so what if i stood in line then had some unforeseen financial troubles the next day like a fender bender. by your definition i would still be considered a 'douche' b/c i realize that there is a market to make a quick bit of cash even though my original intent was to keep it?

I get it. Your time is worth money to you. You fail to realize that in spending YOUR time which you deem valuable, you've also debased the value of countless others who had hoped to get the same item at the same price you did. Yes, you're a douche for it. Would you be pissed if you were that unlucky one behind the last one in line to get one? You bet your ass you would.

anyway, my opinion, is i think if a person sells 1 that would be ok. but if a person comes on here saying 'hey guys i have 20 to sell! pm me!' then that would not be allowed. just my opinion but that would seem to allow some flexibility while enforcing the general idea 🙂

And there you immediately have the loophole that olds pointed out earlier. "Look, I listed just one for sale (but I've responded to 20 PM's and sold 20 of them without anyone being any the wiser."

well either that or just completely outlaw selling AND requesting to buy them in the forums. actually a person could probably make more profit selling them on ebay compared to here. i've seen some go as high as 400+ there.

And that's exactly what they've done. See the sticky in FS/FT. No selling OR buying of Touchpads in Anandtech FS/FT. Period.

(Again, for the record, I was lucky enough to get two from HP. I and my wife are very pleased with our purchase.)

 

[IlllI]

sunnyd why are you so angry. its almost like you are offended by different view points. if i actually cared more about this topic i might actually take offense to you saying my different view point constitutes me being a douche. which seems pretty opinionated term to use (arent mods suppose to be pretty impartial?).

edit: i'm not posting this to stir up trouble or anything. but that choice of somewhat derogatory wording it just seems like an unusual choice to describe a different viewpoint on a subject. i didnt post anything as an attempt to provoke some kind of negative backlash or anything. but seems like there was definitely a negative tone to the replies i got. anyways, i dont have any personal investment in this. i'm old enough not to get caught up by what other anonymous people might have to say on a forum. so i'll leave it as is.

 

[SunnyD]

sunnyd why are you so angry. its almost like you are offended by different view points. if i actually cared more about this topic i might actually take offense to you saying my different view point constitutes me being a douche. which seems pretty opinionated term to use (arent mods suppose to be pretty impartial?).

edit: i'm not posting this to stir up trouble or anything. but that choice of somewhat derogatory wording it just seems like an unusual choice to describe a different viewpoint on a subject. i didnt post anything as an attempt to provoke some kind of negative backlash or anything. but seems like there was definitely a negative tone to the replies i got. anyways, i dont have any personal investment in this. i'm old enough not to get caught up by what other anonymous people might have to say on a forum. so i'll leave it as is.

You were discussing in hypothetical... please don't construe by my argument that I am fingering "you" in particular as a "douche". I understand you're discussing for the sake of discussion, and as such in general terms. As am I. I apologize if you felt I was directing it towards you in particular.

Profiteering is a fact of life. I understand that. But it sickened me to see several eBay posts of individuals that had money to burn and bought HUNDREDS of these things just to resell. Yay, you made money, but quite literally at the expense of others. These individuals that may have had legitimate use for a product have been stripped of the ability to buy it at cost and now are forced to pay more for it by your actions. Tell me, how is that "right"?

For those of you that bought one with intent to use, but decided "oh hey, not for me"... resell it at your cost (including tax/shipping/gas) + shipping. Your time is meaningless in situations like this.

By extension, the only "fair" way to handle this is to not handle it at all, and that's the roads the mods chose.

For the record, I'm not a mod.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I agree with SunnyD here. Personally, I don't care for touchpads, so it doesn't affect me either way, but it does seem wrong for potentially allowing some people to get around the "no dealers" rule. That's another reason why I don't do FS/FT, because I tend to buy things in bulk to resell, so I would likely be considered a dealer, even if I were to liquidate some of my stuff below cost.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

The problem with AnandTech's 'no dealers' rule is that a 'dealer' is difficult to define. Most of the higher-volume traders here are absolutely 'dealers' in the sense that they buy low and sell high not only on this forum, but also on other forums, Craigslist, and eBay. I buy items here frequently with the intent to resell them for profit locally, as do many others. Unfortunately, the 'no dealers' rule prevents individual buyers from deciding whether or not to line a profiteer's pockets. There are many occasions when our observant enthusiasts catch flamingly hot but fleeting deals. Fortunately, it keeps businesses and spammers off the FS/T forum, too. It's not a perfect system but it works and it's better than the alternative.

 

[Gillbot]

I agree with SunnyD here. Personally, I don't care for touchpads, so it doesn't affect me either way, but it does seem wrong for potentially allowing some people to get around the "no dealers" rule. That's another reason why I don't do FS/FT, because I tend to buy things in bulk to resell, so I would likely be considered a dealer, even if I were to liquidate some of my stuff below cost.

We have made exceptions given the OP asks for approval PRIOR to posting a thread.

We are not above bending the rules if the originator has a legitimate reason for liquidation and contacts us before "spamming up" FS/FT.

The problem with AnandTech's 'no dealers' rule is that a 'dealer' is difficult to define. Most of the higher-volume traders here are absolutely 'dealers' in the sense that they buy low and sell high not only on this forum, but also on other forums, Craigslist, and eBay. I buy items here frequently with the intent to resell them for profit locally, as do many others. Unfortunately, the 'no dealers' rule prevents individual buyers from deciding whether or not to line a profiteer's pockets. There are many occasions when our observant enthusiasts catch flamingly hot but fleeting deals. Fortunately, it keeps businesses and spammers off the FS/T forum, too. It's not a perfect system but it works and it's better than the alternative.

Unfortunately, that's the fine line we walk.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

We have made exceptions given the OP asks for approval PRIOR to posting a thread.

We are not above bending the rules if the originator has a legitimate reason for liquidation and contacts us before "spamming up" FS/FT.

I didn't know that. Could that be added to the FS/T rules post? [H] has the same basic policy - rules are bent for legit traders who ask permission first.

 

[Gillbot]

I didn't know that. Could that be added to the FS/T rules post? [H] has the same basic policy - rules are bent for legit traders who ask permission first.

unlikely, then it would be abused as most other rules are