How's the Private Sector Doing Under Obama?

[cybrsage]

Somewhere along the line there has been a moderator statement that this is no longer a hard and fast rule in P&N. I don't have a link, but it was in a thread much like this where somebody complained about an OP without original commentary.

Yep, it was one of my threads. I thought the opinion piece spoke well on its own and did not know about the unwritten rule...Idontcare came in and said it was not an actual rule.

I did edit my OP to basically say "what the opinion piece says" instead of just "What do you all think about this piece?"

 

[werepossum]

Heh. You haven't explained the 10 year gap between Gonzales' influence & the housing bubble. If what you claim were true, we'd have seen the bubble much, much sooner, but we didn't. You fail to illustrate that any coupling exists at all, other than as an article of misguided faith.

GWB preached the Ownership Society from the Bully Pulpit while his Admin did their best to make sure that nothing got in the way of the greatest looting spree in the history of finance.

I'm sure that not all of them saw it for what it was, because they didn't and still don't understand that unfettered capitalism is its own worst enemy, hell bent on destroying itself in a series of ever greater boom/bust cycles. They were ideologically opposed to preventing that, even though they couldn't possibly understand it in those terms.

GWB tried starting in 2004 to mitigate the housing crash. The Democrats, led by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, successfully demagogued the issue and shut him down. They denied that there was any crisis, insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were solvent, all the way up into 2007 when it was no longer possible to ignore. As to the Ownership Society, that's basically the purpose of the HUD mandate that started with Carter. It's a noble goal, helping the working poor to own their own homes as an important part of the American Dream. Only problem was that Congress continually raised the goals, the percentage of loans made to low income or minority or otherwise "disadvantaged" borrowers. In any market, there are some people who are just below the threshold of affording their own homes; those people can be underwritten by the rest of us with some societal benefits. Had HUD stopped there, but Congress (both parties) insisted HUD should do more for the poor and minorities. Increasingly, that higher percentage had to include people who could not possibly afford a home in their area. That led to relaxation and then removal of any sane qualifications such as qualifications and verification of income, employment, and credit history of the borrower, and standardized third party appraisals of the property, and standards of the loans themselves. At that point the housing market crash was inevitable. None of that came specifically from GWB, and all of it came from good intentions, NOT an intention to loot.

 

[blankslate]

At that point the housing market crash was inevitable. None of that came specifically from GWB, and all of it came from good intentions, NOT an intention to loot.

It may have been inevitable but regulatory policies that could have been instrumental in mitigating the disaster were stymied or repealed by people who had a particular view on economics.

I'm talking about the repeal of Glass-Steagall initiated by republicans and signed by Clinton (imo one of his worst decisions ever) who was at the time, I believe, listening too much to Alan Greenspan's advice.

The other was the efforts by Brooksley Born to regulate derivatives being blocked. This is important because this would have given the Commodity Futures Trading Commission authority over the "financial instruments" that mortgages were carelessly chopped up and stuffed into.

Alan Greenspan, was pretty much in charge of the effort to stop the CFTC from regulating derivatives.

 

[Darwin333]

Try subtracting our deficit spending in 2012 from our GDP growth........

That is why we will continue the deficit spending until the wheels come off and why we be fucked because the longer we go the worse we make it.

 

[werepossum]

It may have been inevitable but regulatory policies that could have been instrumental in mitigating the disaster were stymied or repealed by people who had a particular view on economics.

I'm talking about the repeal of Glass-Steagall initiated by republicans and signed by Clinton (imo one of his worst decisions ever) who was at the time, I believe, listening too much to Alan Greenspan's advice.

The other was the efforts by Brooksley Born to regulate derivatives being blocked. This is important because this would have given the Commodity Futures Trading Commission authority over the "financial instruments" that mortgages were carelessly chopped up and stuffed into.

Alan Greenspan, was pretty much in charge of the effort to stop the CFTC from regulating derivatives.

I agree completely. I'm no fan of derivatives at all, but certainly no institution with government-backed accounts should be allowed to "invest" in them.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

The private sector is controlled by the right, thus the hiring freeze and huge donations leading up to the election. This is a well known fact to anyone not covering their eyes with corporate right wing agenda, yet people just spew this shit in here hoping they can convince some naive person in this forum that maybe the right really is right.

It's alright though because once the leaders of this cult finish sucking this country dry they will all move to Brazil and make it the new America. Meanwhile the rest of us, including you righties in this forum, will be stuck here paying $180 for a burger at McDonald's.....or your kids will.

Now is the time to stand up and stop these people from destroying the greatest country ever created with schemes of greed.

 

[Darwin333]

The private sector is controlled by the right, thus the hiring freeze and huge donations leading up to the election. This is a well known fact to anyone not covering their eyes with corporate right wing agenda, yet people just spew this shit in here hoping they can convince some naive person in this forum that maybe the right really is right.

It's alright though because once the leaders of this cult finish sucking this country dry they will all move to Brazil and make it the new America. Meanwhile the rest of us, including you righties in this forum, will be stuck here paying $180 for a burger at McDonald's.....or your kids will.

Now is the time to stand up and stop these people from destroying the greatest country ever created with schemes of greed.

Your argument is that the righties, who worship ONLY money, are refusing to hire people who would make them more money because they want to try and have a basically inconsequential affect on the election. I guess you could argue an absurd amount of collusion but in this day and age you would also have to argue how such collusion has not been leaked.


Yeah uh no.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Your argument is that the righties, who worship ONLY money, are refusing to hire people who would make them more money because they want to try and have a basically inconsequential affect on the election. I guess you could argue an absurd amount of collusion but in this day and age you would also have to argue how such collusion has not been leaked.


Yeah uh no.

They only want to make more money when it serves their purpose. See what Romney did to KayBee Toys for proof if you need it, but your beliefs trump logic so I won't bother carrying this any further. Ironic that a guy named Darwin is blinded by a belief system, even if it might not be a religious one.

 

[Darwin333]

They only want to make more money when it serves their purpose. See what Romney did to KayBee Toys for proof if you need it, but your beliefs trump logic so I won't bother carrying this any further. Ironic that a guy named Darwin is blinded by a belief system, even if it might not be a religious one.

And what exactly are my beliefs?

 

[Jhhnn]

GWB tried starting in 2004 to mitigate the housing crash. The Democrats, led by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, successfully demagogued the issue and shut him down. They denied that there was any crisis, insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were solvent, all the way up into 2007 when it was no longer possible to ignore. As to the Ownership Society, that's basically the purpose of the HUD mandate that started with Carter. It's a noble goal, helping the working poor to own their own homes as an important part of the American Dream. Only problem was that Congress continually raised the goals, the percentage of loans made to low income or minority or otherwise "disadvantaged" borrowers. In any market, there are some people who are just below the threshold of affording their own homes; those people can be underwritten by the rest of us with some societal benefits. Had HUD stopped there, but Congress (both parties) insisted HUD should do more for the poor and minorities. Increasingly, that higher percentage had to include people who could not possibly afford a home in their area. That led to relaxation and then removal of any sane qualifications such as qualifications and verification of income, employment, and credit history of the borrower, and standardized third party appraisals of the property, and standards of the loans themselves. At that point the housing market crash was inevitable. None of that came specifically from GWB, and all of it came from good intentions, NOT an intention to loot.

Incorrect, AFAIK. The Bush admin definitely demanded more "affordable loans" through the agency of HUD, who regulated the GSE's. If you want to claim it was Congress, you'll need to show the mechanism.

Who controlled the Executive & Legislative branches from Jan 2003 until Jan 2007, anyway? HOR hearings on the GSE's bookkeeping were merely window dressing- if Repubs really wanted to do something other than create a smokescreen, they had the power to do so.

No intention for looting? Please. From the guy who suckered people into mortgages he knew would explode in their faces to his bosses to the people at the investment banks to the ratings agencies & the FRB knew damned well that this was a looting spree, and that they were gonna get theirs out of it- an opportunity not seen since the late 1920's.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626.html

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/12/53802/private-sector-loans-not-fannie.html

 

[Darwin333]

Yes... and No.

The problem wasn't really in the collapse of the housing bubble, anyway, but rather that it was allowed to occur in the first place, because that made collapse inevitable. The time for corrective action was on the way up, when the Bush Admin was acting as cheerleaders rather than watchdogs. Once that happens, we have to live with the results, as we are today.

Business? The guys at the top o' the heap are doing great- better than ever, which is what Obama referenced. If tickledown economic theory amounted to more than a hat full of warm piss, the rest of us would be doing great, too, but we're not. Why not? Because that theory is a lie, a fairytale, a con game formulated to convince the gullible, and has been all along.

First of all, you keep pointing blame at the Bush admin for allowing this to happen since the admin "controlled" the regulators yet Obama has fixed very very few of the problems that allowed this to happen. Nor has he (like Bush) ordered his Justice Dept. to investigate and prosecute the absurd amount of criminal actions committed by the banksters.

As far as the tippy top doing great under Obama, that is absolutely true. I am still trying to figure out why the righties hate Obama so much, if you take away Obamacare and pay attention only to his actions and results he could damn near win the Republican nomination.