How's that tax cut working out?

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Did the "tax cut" help or hurt you?

  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $0-50K

    Votes: 10 9.5%
  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $51-100K

    Votes: 10 9.5%
  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $101-200K

    Votes: 20 19.0%
  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $200K+

    Votes: 7 6.7%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $0-50K

    Votes: 4 3.8%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $51-100K

    Votes: 14 13.3%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $101-200K

    Votes: 24 22.9%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $200K+

    Votes: 16 15.2%

  • Total voters
    105

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,511
64
116
Seems everyone's in favor of higher taxes and higher spending until they have to pay for it...

Go ask s0me0nesmind1, he will tell you how your 200k puts you in the top 1% and you should be paying more... Happily.
I'd pay more if it was for something good. But it wasn't, it was to lower taxes on the rich and corporations.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
AGI and taxable over 200.
Lost tons of deductions. Took std.
All withholdings are at 0, but still owe 5 fing grand.

Thank goodness we save lots of our money and bought a cheaper house for the area or that would have been a really painful hit.

Overall rate went down 3%, but 2/3 of that is due to child credit which won't last forever.

After that it will be 1% cut. :roll:

I know a number of people who are getting fucked in either higher rates or just owing where they used to get refunds and are freaking out.

A lot of bullshit and national debt for little benefit IMO. God knows what this will do to property values and taxes (school funding) long term.

Repeal this piece of crap and replace with real tax reform and/or do something useful, like fix roads or HC.
Congratulations. That's excellent money in modern America. You're in the top 5%. Table 7-

https://files.taxfoundation.org/201...ederal-Income-Tax-Data-2018-Update-FF-622.pdf

What was your federal tax rate?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
Yeah, damn those Top 50% tax earners for paying 97% of the taxes.

And damn those top 10% for paying 70%!
Taxes at the tippy top were regressive before the most recent tax cuts & are likely even more so today. Chances are good that Bitek pays a higher rate than people making $M's/month.

There's no defense for that.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,807
1,386
126
Taxes at the tippy top were regressive before the most recent tax cuts & are likely even more so today. Chances are good that Bitek pays a higher rate than people making $M's/month.

There's no defense for that.
Regressive insinuates that everyone pays, and the percentage of contribution goes up as reported income amount goes up.

Regressive isn't the bottom 50% paying 0% detective dipshit.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,380
572
136
Congratulations. That's excellent money in modern America. You're in the top 5%. Table 7-

https://files.taxfoundation.org/201...ederal-Income-Tax-Data-2018-Update-FF-622.pdf

What was your federal tax rate?
Went from 18 last yr to 16.x%
Seems like it's like it's always been in that range even when we are both making $40-45k

Yeah, wife and I both work hard for good companies, plus both managed to break thru a layer in our careers in last few years that got us into the range we are in now.

I know where we are on the percentiles, but I know actual rich people, and that we ain't by any means.

Just feels like we are now at a place where we can actually save properly and not worry about being shit ass broke or unable to retire, esp with kids and inflated college costs on the horizon.

We save a lot of our extra earnings and really try to limit the lifestyle creep. I see people running around in big SUVs or BMWs in huge mcMansions and IDK how they afford it.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
Regressive insinuates that everyone pays, and the percentage of contribution goes up as reported income amount goes up.

Regressive isn't the bottom 50% paying 0% detective dipshit.
That's right- be a defender of unfathomable greed. The reason the people in the lower half don't pay income tax any more is because their share of national income has fallen by over a third since 1980. I'm sure they'd be happy to pay income tax if they had that back. Meanwhile, the income share of the top 1% has more than doubled & the share of the top .1% is the lion's share of that.

https://files.taxfoundation.org/201...ederal-Income-Tax-Data-2018-Update-FF-622.pdf
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,807
1,386
126
Went from 18 last yr to 16.x%
Seems like it's like it's always been in that range even when we are both making $40-45k

Yeah, wife and I both work hard for good companies, plus both managed to break thru a layer in our careers in last few years that got us into the range we are in now.

I know where we are on the percentiles, but I know actual rich people, and that we ain't by any means.

Just feels like we are now at a place where we can actually save properly and not worry about being shit ass broke or unable to retire, esp with kids and inflated college costs on the horizon.

We save a lot of our extra earnings and really try to limit the lifestyle creep. I see people running around in big SUVs or BMWs in huge mcMansions and IDK how they afford it.
Debt baby, it's the American way...

Whether it's racking up $150k in student loans for an out of state college degree with a major in lesbian dance theory, a gas guzzling over sized SUV, going out to eat daily, getting $5 Starbucks coffee drinks daily... the list goes on and on.

Meanwhile the intelligent folks (few and far) like myself are socking away maxing out 2x 401ks ($38,000), 2x IRAs ($12,000), and 1x HSA ($7,000) with even more going to other investments (College 529 savings for the kids, taxable investments, etc.).
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
Went from 18 last yr to 16.x%
Seems like it's like it's always been in that range even when we are both making $40-45k

Yeah, wife and I both work hard for good companies, plus both managed to break thru a layer in our careers in last few years that got us into the range we are in now.

I know where we are on the percentiles, but I know actual rich people, and that we ain't by any means.

Just feels like we are now at a place where we can actually save properly and not worry about being shit ass broke or unable to retire, esp with kids and inflated college costs on the horizon.

We save a lot of our extra earnings and really try to limit the lifestyle creep. I see people running around in big SUVs or BMWs in huge mcMansions and IDK how they afford it.
Thanks for that. Mitt paid a lower rate when he ran for Prez & people making $60M+/yr pay about the same as you. Or they did, prior to the recent tax giveaway.

As the rich become super-rich, they pay lower taxes. For real. - The Washington Post

Middle class conservatives' headsets are really fucked up about that. It's like they worship the filthy Rich.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
Debt baby, it's the American way...

Whether it's racking up $150k in student loans for an out of state college degree with a major in lesbian dance theory, a gas guzzling over sized SUV, going out to eat daily, getting $5 Starbucks coffee drinks daily... the list goes on and on.

Meanwhile the intelligent folks (few and far) like myself are socking away maxing out 2x 401ks ($38,000), 2x IRAs ($12,000), and 1x HSA ($7,000) with even more going to other investments (College 529 savings for the kids, taxable investments, etc.).
And half of American tax filers don't have a prayer of doing any of that. Not a fucking prayer.

You might want to consider the idea that you've been more lucky than good. It's a healthier perspective than the one you're wearing.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,187
156
126
Debt baby, it's the American way...

Whether it's racking up $150k in student loans for an out of state college degree with a major in lesbian dance theory, a gas guzzling over sized SUV, going out to eat daily, getting $5 Starbucks coffee drinks daily... the list goes on and on.

Meanwhile the intelligent folks (few and far) like myself are socking away maxing out 2x 401ks ($38,000), 2x IRAs ($12,000), and 1x HSA ($7,000) with even more going to other investments (College 529 savings for the kids, taxable investments, etc.).
I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. You obviously know what you're doing.

It's obvious that the median American household earning $61,891 in June 2018 is full of morons for not being able to save $57,000 in three items.

Please tell me more. If you could expand on regressive tax policy and how it means the opposite of what every economist on the planet defines it to mean that would be great, too.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,807
1,386
126
I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. You obviously know what you're doing.

It's obvious that the median American household earning $61,891 in June 2018 is full of morons for not being able to save $57,000 in three items.

Please tell me more. If you could expand on regressive tax policy and how it means the opposite of what every economist on the planet defines it to mean that would be great, too.
I already explained above how the bottom 50% paying $0 in federal income tax isn't a regressive tax policy.

If you have some kind of real, rational argument I would be more than happy to debate on it.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
I already explained above how the bottom 50% paying $0 in federal income tax isn't a regressive tax policy.

If you have some kind of real, rational argument I would be more than happy to debate on it.
You're just trying to rationalize your way around regressive tax in the top 1%. Funny thing about it all is that I didn't notice Rich people having trouble being rich back in 1980 when their rates were much higher & their share of national income much lower. I don't notice Europe's rich, who pay much higher taxes, having a tough time getting by, either.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
98,153
428
126
Largest monthly deficit ever. I'm sure the tax law had nothing to do with it.
 
May 27, 2002
12,437
27
91
Regressive insinuates that everyone pays, and the percentage of contribution goes UP as reported income amount goes up.

Regressive isn't the bottom 50% paying 0% detective dipshit.
WOW... do you even know what a regressive tax is??

A regressive tax is one where the percentage of contribution goes DOWN as the reported income goes up.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
17,869
266
126
seems retailer are not loving the reduced refunds

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2019-t...retail-spending-wall-street-fears-2019-04-03/
$4.4b less than last year.

how's that for unexpected consequences.
It's not all that surprising that they've handed out 4.8% less in total dollar amount at this specific point in time compared to last year given they have processed 4.6% fewer total tax returns - most of which is likely because they have received 3.5% fewer returns. (Although CBS links to Feb 22nd data for their source).

Both the IRS data and H&R block show the average* refund is up - but not by a whole lot ($20-27)
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/filing-season-statistics-for-week-ending-february-22-2019
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-cause-most-confusion-filers-year/3352783002/

*which has its own issues portraying whats happening
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,311
33
126
I don't have a clean comparison, given both of us went up in pay last year, but with $130K combined income, our tax rate was around 14%, higher than the 12% or so historically. No children, no mortgage.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
5,697
117
126
I don't have a clean comparison, given both of us went up in pay last year, but with $130K combined income, our tax rate was around 14%, higher than the 12% or so historically. No children, no mortgage.
We have 2 kids and a mortgage.
Our effective tax rate went up.

Father in law who works as an accountant reports most of his client got a major shock this year.
The difference in pay due to the tax changes did not match the hit many took in taxes.
 
Feb 23, 2005
17,489
383
106
You're just trying to rationalize your way around regressive tax in the top 1%. Funny thing about it all is that I didn't notice Rich people having trouble being rich back in 1980 when their rates were much higher & their share of national income much lower. I don't notice Europe's rich, who pay much higher taxes, having a tough time getting by, either.
Not a fair comparison as most of the tax breaks they had back then are gone. Apples and Oranges.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
53,038
2,877
126
Not a fair comparison as most of the tax breaks they had back then are gone. Apples and Oranges.
So what? The effective tax rate on the 1% was considerably higher in 1980. Their share of national income was less than half of what it is today. Their gain came at the expense of the lower 75%. Taxes are also regressive in the top 1%. Mere fact.

Tables 5 & 8-

https://files.taxfoundation.org/201...ederal-Income-Tax-Data-2018-Update-FF-622.pdf

As the rich become super-rich, they pay lower taxes. For real. - The Washington Post

The GOP has been handing out tax cuts to the uber wealthy for nearly 40 years. You know- people who don't need tax cuts at all.
 
Jul 12, 2006
95,098
2,936
136
WOW... do you even know what a regressive tax is??

A regressive tax is one where the percentage of contribution goes DOWN as the reported income goes up.
careful now. someone's mind is the most experted tax person that repeatedly exposes how little he actually knows about tax policy or even simple economics, in general. It's fascinating to watch. As Jhnnn mentioned, it's a factor of "being lucky more than knowledgeable" or educated. This is the type of condition that does drive a lot of self-defined successful people--they think they get to where they are because they are correct, when the reality is that they usually just shit and loaf themselves into the proper place at the proper time. The best part about the world of Finance, is that you have an incredibly great chance of being very wealthy despite being very wrong about nearly everything. It's quite the racket.
 
Jul 12, 2006
95,098
2,936
136
Not a fair comparison as most of the tax breaks they had back then are gone. Apples and Oranges.
Oh, you mean like reinvesting all of that taxable income back into their companies for R&N and employee pension funds instead of sending it to the Fed (now they just pocket it and buy yachts)...you mean when actual "trickle down" really was a thing, and it worked so incredibly well for generations? What's wrong with doing that again, which is what the dems propose?
 

IJTSSG

Senior member
Aug 12, 2014
913
263
116
Effective tax rate went from 24% to 20% with an increase in taxable income of ~$51k.

I'm just lucky I guess. LoL.
 

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