Howard Dean, the nominee who could have been

[glenn1]

How ironic that the man nearly no Democrat says was their first choice, yet became the nominee anyway, is the one getting the crap pounded on him for the very reason you claimed he was "electable."

You were infatuated with Howard Dean, his anti-war stance, and his (relative) fiscal conservatism. And instead you kicked him to the curb for the boring yet - you thought - somehow more respectable guy who had war stories to tell and looked good in a uniform once upon a time 30 years ago. So instead of the dashing and charming Dean, you have a boring and stuffy Kerry. You had the guy with the big ideas which captured your imagination, and decided to pick the guy who parrots the approach of the incumbent but says "I'd do everything he did, only better!" You could have chosen the guy who'd probably be comfortably leading Bush now because he offered a true alternative. Instead you chose the guy who will probably be in a dead heat with him until election day because people see him as a Democratic mini-me of Bush, only one who REALLY cares about what France and Germany think. And then on the flip side, for all your support of someone whose policies you consider only slightly marginally better than Bush's get to watch SBVFT turn undecideds who don't know any better turn your war hero into a REMF who got an early out for 3 papercuts.

You started well but by the end said "anybody but Bush" and anybody turned out to be Kerry. Jeez, that must have been like waking up with the ugly chick from the bar the night before and pulling a Coyote Ugly in the morning. And it's going to be a longgggggggggggggggggggg four years thinking about it.

 

[nageov3t]

meh. I was never a big Dean fan, but I blame the media 100% for his failing so badly. they overplayed the so-called "I have a scream" speach into the ground and took it so far out of context that just about everyone thought he was crazy.

 

[jjzelinski]

I think Dean was a much bigger stone tossed in the pond than is appreciated.

 

[arsbanned]

Oh come on Glenn, the Republican smear machine would have found something to lie about, some way to maliciously impugn his character, just as they have Kerry.

Dean is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY further to the left than Kerry. HE would NEVER have been elected. Of course Kerry may not either, but his chances are far better. (yes, still, even with the SHiftless Boat Liars.)

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
I think Dean was a much bigger stone tossed in the pond than is appreciated.

Kerry was not the best option...Why didnt Biden run...I really like him for being a Dem

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: glenn1
And then on the flip side, for all your support of someone whose policies you consider only slightly marginally better than Bush's get to watch SBVFT turn undecideds who don't know any better turn your war hero into a REMF who got an early out for 3 papercuts

TROLL!!!

I'll believe they were paper cuts ONLY when you're willing to go into the same conditions and take the same cuts.

STFU! :|

< update >

Blush and apology, below for not reading OP's post carefully.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: glenn1
And then on the flip side, for all your support of someone whose policies you consider only slightly marginally better than Bush's get to watch SBVFT turn undecideds who don't know any better turn your war hero into a REMF who got an early out for 3 papercuts

TROLL!!!

I'll believe they were paper cuts ONLY when you're willing to go into the same conditions and take the same cuts.

STFU!A :|

Ouch...thats a bit harsh.....

 

[glenn1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: glenn1
And then on the flip side, for all your support of someone whose policies you consider only slightly marginally better than Bush's get to watch SBVFT turn undecideds who don't know any better turn your war hero into a REMF who got an early out for 3 papercuts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TROLL!!!

I'll believe they were paper cuts ONLY when you're willing to go into the same conditions and take the same cuts.

STFU!A

I didn't say they were papercuts. I said that's the impression the SBVFT is trying to impart to undecideds, and not without some measure of success. Read what I said again before you get so angry.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: glenn1
I didn't say they were papercuts. I said that's the impression the SBVFT is trying to impart to undecideds, and not without some measure of success. Read what I said again before you get so angry.

< blushes >

Sorry about that. :beer: :wine:

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
I think Dean was a much bigger stone tossed in the pond than is appreciated.

Kerry was not the best option...Why didnt Biden run...I really like him for being a Dem

Riiiiiiight, then the smear machine would have been pouncing again and again on the "plagiarizing" scandal. :disgust:

"Can we really trust a plagiarizer? Wouldn't you rather trust a war dodger?"

 

[Stunt]

No matter who gets picked as a candidate gets smeared ... can't win with anybody.

Kerry was a bad choice. I liked edwards and clark due to their somewhat lack of political croneyism but relevant skills and credentials. Well spoken and and a clear vision for the country.

Of course, edwards would be easier to smear with his career. Much harder to smear a general, but they'd dig up something.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I really liked Dean, but the Republican smear machine (aided and abetted by the "liberal media") went nuts following his speech in Iowa and managed to persuade people he was unstable. I still really like and admire Dean.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: DonVito
I really liked Dean, but the Republican smear machine (aided and abetted by the "liberal media") went nuts following his speech in Iowa and managed to persuade people he was unstable. I still really like and admire Dean.

The speech spoke for itself.

 

[Riprorin]

And now he's reduced to being a shill for Kerry. Sad.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: DonVito
I really liked Dean, but the Republican smear machine (aided and abetted by the "liberal media") went nuts following his speech in Iowa and managed to persuade people he was unstable. I still really like and admire Dean.

The speech spoke for itself.

I disagree.

according to people who were there, the speach sounded dramatically different in-person than it did on television. he was screaming to be heard over the loud crowd; because of the microphone, however, his voice was picked up at the screaming-level but the crowd noises were filtered out.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_2004vote_012904dean.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Dean was doing fine with the press and the electorate, until he offered his pov on breaking up the media conglomerates- then we started up on the "electability" angle, and the "too angry" label, and then the electronically manipulated "scream" presented over and over, utterly out of context...

And it worked. Even people who ordinarily exhibit good sense now believe that Dean is further left than Kerry, pure balderdash. While socially progressive, he was and remains fiscally conservative in the true sense of the word.

We face some very difficult financial choices in the years ahead, and collectively burying our heads in the sand behind the reckless looting of the current Republican leadership will only make it worse. Their cut taxes/ raise spending/ claim deficits don't matter illusion sure as hell wouldn't fly with Dean in the Whitehouse...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: charrison

The speech spoke for itself.

I don't see anything faintly weird about the speech, other than his primal scream, which was embarrassing but apparently not that noticeable in person. It was intended to rally the troops, after he had lost, not to persuade people on the fence to vote for him. I actually thought it was nice to see a politician show some passion, a characteristic I find sorely lacking in either of the present candidates.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
And now he's reduced to being a shill for Kerry. Sad.

Of course, your dull-witted one-note partisanism ensures you'd say anything that happened to him, or anything faintly related to the Kerry campaign, was sad. Something tells me if I ran a search for your commentary about Howard Dean in Nov-Dec of last year, you weren't a fan.

 

[jjzelinski]

I wish those not blinded by the glaring retardation of this current administration wouldn't capitulate and resort to deriding Kerry as "yeah they're both bad." From all the sh1t that's been heaped on to Kerry there's nothing he's said nor done that would lead me to questions his qualifications as a President. The worst that can be said is that he lacks a certain "charisma?" wtf?! He's an intelligent, ethical American that has done what he thought was right every step of the way. There are people on this board who I'd like to slap for their tunnelvision but I actually respect them in their capacity that they're fighting for what they thing is "right." Whether or not I disagreed with Kerry ideologically I would at least offer him the same respect.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Dean was doing fine with the press and the electorate, until he offered his pov on breaking up the media conglomerates- then we started up on the "electability" angle, and the "too angry" label, and then the electronically manipulated "scream" presented over and over, utterly out of context...

And it worked. Even people who ordinarily exhibit good sense now believe that Dean is further left than Kerry, pure balderdash. While socially progressive, he was and remains fiscally conservative in the true sense of the word.

We face some very difficult financial choices in the years ahead, and collectively burying our heads in the sand behind the reckless looting of the current Republican leadership will only make it worse. Their cut taxes/ raise spending/ claim deficits don't matter illusion sure as hell wouldn't fly with Dean in the Whitehouse...

Absolutely right on the money. Dean is a reformer and real threat to the economic elite including the Democratic elite. He was assassinated in their interests.

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Dean was doing fine with the press and the electorate, until he offered his pov on breaking up the media conglomerates- then we started up on the "electability" angle, and the "too angry" label, and then the electronically manipulated "scream" presented over and over, utterly out of context...

And it worked. Even people who ordinarily exhibit good sense now believe that Dean is further left than Kerry, pure balderdash. While socially progressive, he was and remains fiscally conservative in the true sense of the word.

We face some very difficult financial choices in the years ahead, and collectively burying our heads in the sand behind the reckless looting of the current Republican leadership will only make it worse. Their cut taxes/ raise spending/ claim deficits don't matter illusion sure as hell wouldn't fly with Dean in the Whitehouse...

Absolutely right on the money. Dean is a reformer and real threat to the economic elite including the Democratic elite. He was assassinated in their interests.

Those elite are the few super citizens of our nation who make the gears turn. Changing the status quo could have unforseen effects on the plebians' lives. The overtime laws have been revised, maybe you should be working now?

Zephyr

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: DonVito
I really liked Dean, but the Republican smear machine (aided and abetted by the "liberal media") went nuts following his speech in Iowa and managed to persuade people he was unstable. I still really like and admire Dean.

ditto

 

[alchemize]

As a neocon, I actually liked Dean. At least he stood for something and was presenting some unique ideas.

 

[nageov3t]

Changing the status quo could have unforseen effects on the plebians' lives.

I hate that "stay the course" mentality.

I have a friend who is voting for Junior because he doesn't think it's right to change presidents in the middle of a war. I kinda want to punch him in the face... I mean, I have no problem with people who are voting for Bush, but it seems like such a stupid reason.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: alchemize
As a neocon, I actually liked Dean. At least he stood for something and was presenting some unique ideas.

I agree, but that doesn't mean I agreed with those ideas

CkG