Howard Dean and the so called Abramoff "Republican Scandal"

jlmadyson

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Aug 13, 2004
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The chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, made it clear that Abramoff's relationship with Republicans will be an issue in this year's congressional campaign. He said the DNC plans to file a Freedom of Information Request with the Secret Service for all its records of Abramoff's entries and exits from the White House.

Dean said Abramoff is a "Republican scandal" because no Democrat delivered anything on behalf of Abramoff, even if the lobbyist directed some money to Democrats. If anyone wrote letters on behalf of Abramoff's clients, Dean said, "That's a big problem, and those Democrats are in trouble and they should be in trouble."[/Q]

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada sent a letter to the Interior Department on March 5, 2002, on behalf of the Louisiana Coushattas, an Abramoff client. The next day, Reid's leadership fund got a $5,000 donation from the tribe.[/Q]

After the show, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney clarified that Dean meant that there is no evidence that Reid or any other Democrat took contributions in exchange for official actions.

Nice one Dean. This has quid pro quo written all over it. To try to paint this as a so called Republican scandal is good stuff. I personally promote Dean to utilize this issue for the election season because in the end it's going to blow up right in his face. All this bs about Dems not taking any money from Abramoff is a joke, yea maybe not from him personally but certainly fom his clients which is exactly how many of his scams worked.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Nice one Dean. This has quid pro quo written all over it. To try to paint this as a so called Republican scandal is good stuff. I personally promote Dean to utilize this issue for the election season because in the end it's going to blow up right in his face. All this bs about Dems not taking any money from Abramoff is a joke, yea maybe not from him personally but certainly fom his clients which is exactly how many of his scams worked.

I said from day one Dean was good news for Republicans. So long as that idiot is left to the leadership role for the Dems they'll continue to slide further and further to irrelevancy, while losing elections.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Nice one Dean. This has quid pro quo written all over it. To try to paint this as a so called Republican scandal is good stuff. I personally promote Dean to utilize this issue for the election season because in the end it's going to blow up right in his face. All this bs about Dems not taking any money from Abramoff is a joke, yea maybe not from him personally but certainly fom his clients which is exactly how many of his scams worked.

I said from day one Dean was good news for Republicans. So long as that idiot is left to the leadership role for the Dems they'll continue to slide further and further to irrelevancy, while losing elections.

See, I don't know. I agree that this could blow up in the Dems collective face, but polls seem to suggest that people are willing to buy the idea that corruption is a Republican problem, and that the Dems are better. While this isn't as true as the Dems might like to believe, it's all about what you can convince people of to win elections.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Text

The chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, made it clear that Abramoff's relationship with Republicans will be an issue in this year's congressional campaign. He said the DNC plans to file a Freedom of Information Request with the Secret Service for all its records of Abramoff's entries and exits from the White House.

Dean said Abramoff is a "Republican scandal" because no Democrat delivered anything on behalf of Abramoff, even if the lobbyist directed some money to Democrats. If anyone wrote letters on behalf of Abramoff's clients, Dean said, "That's a big problem, and those Democrats are in trouble and they should be in trouble."[/

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada sent a letter to the Interior Department on March 5, 2002, on behalf of the Louisiana Coushattas, an Abramoff client. The next day, Reid's leadership fund got a $5,000 donation from the tribe.[/Q]

After the show, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney clarified that Dean meant that there is no evidence that Reid or any other Democrat took contributions in exchange for official actions.

Nice one Dean. This has quid pro quo written all over it. To try to paint this as a so called Republican scandal is good stuff. I personally promote Dean to utilize this issue for the election season because in the end it's going to blow up right in his face. All this bs about Dems not taking any money from Abramoff is a joke, yea maybe not from him personally but certainly fom his clients which is exactly how many of his scams worked.

Maybe he knows something we don't?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Heh. Abramoff personally spread millions of dollars of quid pro quo cash across the repub ranks, along with his pal tom delay, yet when harry reid gets a few thousand after the fact from an Abramoff client, it's the usual "they're just as bad!" song and dance.

Repubs generally get the money up front, then vote their wallet, and Dems haven't been shown to be the recipient of funds laundered through phony charities, either...

No, they're not just as bad, certainly not in this current imbroglio. Yeh, sure, some Dems apparently have a little bit of stinky stuff on their boots, but Repubs have been using it as body fragrance, hair tonic, and gargle... almost a religious rite...

Repubs generally outspend Dems on a regular basis, often more than 2:1. Where do you think all that money comes from, and why do people give it to them?

Because they put out a giant "For Sale" sign that would make a Vegas Casino green with envy, that's why...
 

jlmadyson

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Aug 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh. Abramoff personally spread millions of dollars of quid pro quo cash across the repub ranks, along with his pal tom delay, yet when harry reid gets a few thousand after the fact from an Abramoff client, it's the usual "they're just as bad!" song and dance.

Repubs generally get the money up front, then vote their wallet, and Dems haven't been shown to be the recipient of funds laundered through phony charities, either...

No, they're not just as bad, certainly not in this current imbroglio. Yeh, sure, some Dems apparently have a little bit of stinky stuff on their boots, but Repubs have been using it as body fragrance, hair tonic, and gargle... almost a religious rite...

Repubs generally outspend Dems on a regular basis, often more than 2:1. Where do you think all that money comes from, and why do people give it to them?

Because they put out a giant "For Sale" sign that would make a Vegas Casino green with envy, that's why...

The fact is Harry Reid can be indicted on the basis of any amount of quid pro quo money and if he is do you have any idea what that will do to the Democrat party. The crap will hit the fan that is what it will do. The heck with this is "just is bad" stuff this about who did what, when and where and the facts will come out. In the end you and your party might like to paint this as a Republican problem but that is far from reality. I?ve already posted a link from the post about who supposedly the first six congressmen being investigated are, and it just so happens, Harry Reid is on the list. In the end the American people will decide the facts this November.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Harry Reid knows very well how the game is played. The Coushattas evidently sought his support in the matter, and he listened. They showed their gratitude after the fact. Neither party was obligated to do anything.

Contrast that with the Abramoff/ DeLay methodology, where campaign contributors pay up front for "access", an amazing euphemism, creating a whole different kind of relationship, one where contributors expect to get what they paid for, and generally do... Also the kind of relationships where guys like Abramoff can peddle their services in a fraudulent manner.

"Access" to Reid was free, whereas Repubs see "Access" the same way as they see "Free Speech"- you can have all you can pay for.... cash up front, of course...

And, yeh, Repubs were quick to salt the mine, so to speak, with anonymous leaks about investigation of Reid- the whole "they're just as bad!" routine, as stated above...

Any official recognition that Reid is a target? No? Then it's just a smear...
 

jlmadyson

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Aug 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Harry Reid knows very well how the game is played. The Coushattas evidently sought his support in the matter, and he listened. They showed their gratitude after the fact. Neither party was obligated to do anything.

Contrast that with the Abramoff/ DeLay methodology, where campaign contributors pay up front for "access", an amazing euphemism, creating a whole different kind of relationship, one where contributors expect to get what they paid for, and generally do... Also the kind of relationships where guys like Abramoff can peddle their services in a fraudulent manner.

"Access" to Reid was free, whereas Repubs see "Access" the same way as they see "Free Speech"- you can have all you can pay for.... cash up front, of course...

Free my ass. If you don't think that is quid pro quo please pass that stuff this way. :laugh:
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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The methods I've attributed to Reid haven't changed since the dawn of the Republic, jlmadison- it's been that way for over 200 years, and has been regarded as ethical. Politicians listen, and tailor their votes for a variety of reasons, sometimes financial, sometimes not, and sometimes the two fit together rather neatly, anyway... there is no proof whatsoever that the Coushattas promised $X for Reid's vote, or any reason other than partisanship to make the attribution. His vote was entirely consistent with the goals of his State, which are obviously to limit or prevent gambling anywhere else...

In the realm of political money, $5K is just a thankyou note, anyway- compare it to the amounts spent on just one of Delay's golf junkets... all done on the basis of pay first, maybe see some results later...
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
In the realm of political money, $5K is just a thankyou note, anyway- compare it to the amounts spent on just one of Delay's golf junkets... all done on the basis of pay first, maybe see some results later...

Ah, it is the old 'two wrongs make a right when it is convenient' mentality, I see.
 

jlmadyson

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Aug 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The methods I've attributed to Reid haven't changed since the dawn of the Republic, jlmadison- it's been that way for over 200 years, and has been regarded as ethical. Politicians listen, and tailor their votes for a variety of reasons, sometimes financial, sometimes not, and sometimes the two fit together rather neatly, anyway... there is no proof whatsoever that the Coushattas promised $X for Reid's vote, or any reason other than partisanship to make the attribution. His vote was entirely consistent with the goals of his State, which are obviously to limit or prevent gambling anywhere else...

In the realm of political money, $5K is just a thankyou note, anyway- compare it to the amounts spent on just one of Delay's golf junkets... all done on the basis of pay first, maybe see some results later...

What are you smoking. Some good stuff I must say. If Harry Reid has nothing to hide then I'm sure there is no reason he should be on the list of six being investigated so far.

QUID PRO QUO - Lat. 'what for what' or 'something for something.' The concept of getting something of value in return for giving something of value. For a contract to be binding, it usually must involve the exchange of something of value.

source
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Nice ploy, Pabster. I already pointed out that it was entirely in the interests of Reid's State for him to vote the way he did... And there has been no proof whatsoever offered that Reid was bought- that's merely a smear and an attempt to divert attention from politicians who really were bought... Hundreds of millions of dollars are made in political contributions every year- not all are scandalous.

And I seriously doubt that you, of all people, would support the idea of taking money out of politics entirely- it would ruin the Republican Party, after all...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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What "List", jlmadison? The one alleged to exist by unofficial anonymous sources?

Repubs are amazingly adept at leading the press around by their noses- any reasons for anybody to think that what you allege is anything else?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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What I said in earlier threads is still valid here-----we have a heck of a scandal an its being investigated
by the very foxes that are raiding the chicken coop---namely a partisan Republican justice department
headed by Alberto Gonzales.---not exactly a savory character in my book given he is pushing unlimited Presidential power and seems unable to correctly read the clear language of The US constitution.

So what do we get--------3 Republicans on the hot list and two democrats-----with Delay nowhere on that list------and its being done slow boat to China-------so far my nose detects a strong odor of skunks. And much of it coming from the prosecution side of the fence.

We need an independent prosecutor ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-------and like good old Kenny boy Lay it now turns out Bush has a selective memory of visits and associations with Jack Abramoff. Can you spell stonewall?-----beam me up Scotty McClennan.
 

jlmadyson

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Aug 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
What "List", jlmadison? The one alleged to exist by unofficial anonymous sources?

Repubs are amazingly adept at leading the press around by their noses- any reasons for anybody to think that what you allege is anything else?

I stated that earlier as the post. Heh, it?s the post that came up with list buddy not me. Try to get your facts straight. The facts are Reid accepted 60+ k in all from Jack's clients you can rub it anyway you like "Republican scandal" or not.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
And I seriously doubt that you, of all people, would support the idea of taking money out of politics entirely- it would ruin the Republican Party, after all...

LOL, Yeah, I mean they'd have to do without Hollywood and Labor Unions. Wait, wrong party.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
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If the Dems were in power the the tables would be turned. Abramoff put the money where it would do most good (for him).

the repubs dont have the market cornered on corruption, they just happen to be the party in power.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Text

The chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, made it clear that Abramoff's relationship with Republicans will be an issue in this year's congressional campaign. He said the DNC plans to file a Freedom of Information Request with the Secret Service for all its records of Abramoff's entries and exits from the White House.
Dean said Abramoff is a "Republican scandal" because no Democrat delivered anything on behalf of Abramoff, even if the lobbyist directed some money to Democrats. If anyone wrote letters on behalf of Abramoff's clients, Dean said, "That's a big problem, and those Democrats are in trouble and they should be in trouble."[/Q]

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada sent a letter to the Interior Department on March 5, 2002, on behalf of the Louisiana Coushattas, an Abramoff client. The next day, Reid's leadership fund got a $5,000 donation from the tribe.[/Q]

After the show, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney clarified that Dean meant that there is no evidence that Reid or any other Democrat took contributions in exchange for official actions.
Nice one Dean. This has quid pro quo written all over it. To try to paint this as a so called Republican scandal is good stuff. I personally promote Dean to utilize this issue for the election season because in the end it's going to blow up right in his face. All this bs about Dems not taking any money from Abramoff is a joke, yea maybe not from him personally but certainly fom his clients which is exactly how many of his scams worked.
What was the content of that letter written by Reid? Did it affect legislation? Did it pass business to the tribe? Those questions will need to be answered before any fingers can be pointed at Reid.

P.S. Learn how to use the quote feature
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Text

The chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, made it clear that Abramoff's relationship with Republicans will be an issue in this year's congressional campaign. He said the DNC plans to file a Freedom of Information Request with the Secret Service for all its records of Abramoff's entries and exits from the White House.
Dean said Abramoff is a "Republican scandal" because no Democrat delivered anything on behalf of Abramoff, even if the lobbyist directed some money to Democrats. If anyone wrote letters on behalf of Abramoff's clients, Dean said, "That's a big problem, and those Democrats are in trouble and they should be in trouble."[/Q]

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada sent a letter to the Interior Department on March 5, 2002, on behalf of the Louisiana Coushattas, an Abramoff client. The next day, Reid's leadership fund got a $5,000 donation from the tribe.[/Q]

After the show, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney clarified that Dean meant that there is no evidence that Reid or any other Democrat took contributions in exchange for official actions.
Nice one Dean. This has quid pro quo written all over it. To try to paint this as a so called Republican scandal is good stuff. I personally promote Dean to utilize this issue for the election season because in the end it's going to blow up right in his face. All this bs about Dems not taking any money from Abramoff is a joke, yea maybe not from him personally but certainly fom his clients which is exactly how many of his scams worked.
What was the content of that letter written by Reid? Did it affect legislation? Did it pass business to the tribe? Those questions will need to be answered before any fingers can be pointed at Reid.

P.S. Learn how to use the quote feature

I'm certain "those" questions will be answered in due course.

P.S. I used it quite clearly maybe not to your liking but oh well.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
No answers to the questions? Prefer to get pissed off at some constructive posting criticism instead? :roll:



How about answering the questions?
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: conjur
No answers to the questions? Prefer to get pissed off at some constructive posting criticism instead? :roll:



How about answering the questions?

Um what are you talking about. There is an investigation on the table the answers are coming maybe not to your liking but I'm not hear to answer any of your questions.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Repubs outspend Dems nearly 2:1, Pabster... and that's not out of their own pockets, either.

And, uhh, jlmadyson, are you trying to say that Reid somehow changed his position in response to campaign contributions? Both he and his Repub counterpart, Ensign, have opposed the expansion of Indian gambling for many years, for obvious reasons... Neither of them altered their positions in the slightest, regardless of whatever money came in from whatever source... Contributions came in because of the positions they've held for years, and not vice-versa...

It's not quite like the idol of the fundie fringe, Ralph Reed, knowingly ending up with laundered tribal gambling money in his coffers... or a lot of the other shady dealings from the purveyors of so-called "honor and dignity", "morals", and "family values"...

There's a reason that lobbying firms have enjoyed explosive growth during the last few years, and it's not because Repubs have any scruples at all wrt money...
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Um what are you talking about. There is an investigation on the table the answers are coming maybe not to your liking but I'm not hear to answer any of your questions.
It's a bloody epidemic.

There seriously needs to be a study done re: the lack of reading comprehension skills amongst far-right conservatives.


What was the content of that letter written by Reid? Did it affect legislation? Did it pass business to the tribe? Those questions will need to be answered before any fingers can be pointed at Reid.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Um what are you talking about. There is an investigation on the table the answers are coming maybe not to your liking but I'm not hear to answer any of your questions.
It's a bloody epidemic.

There seriously needs to be a study done re: the lack of reading comprehension skills amongst far-right conservatives.


What was the content of that letter written by Reid? Did it affect legislation? Did it pass business to the tribe? Those questions will need to be answered before any fingers can be pointed at Reid.

Why don't you go find the time to look that up if your so worried about it.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
I'm not the one that started a thread on it. You're casting stones at one Democrat with no proof he's done anything wrong. The same cannot be said of the GOP where we've already had convictions or charges on several high-ranking members (Abramoff, Scanlon, DeLay, Safavian, Cunningham) and more coming.


You don't care about the truth. You're just looking for a way to divert attention from the growing scandal in the GOP.