How would you make the U.S. Constitution perfect?

[Craig234]

Lol. Efficiency is associated with communism? And if you want efficiency you indirectly want communism?

Diversity is a beautiful thing and nor do you need centralized power for everything. At the same time, even you must understand that the way we divide out country up is many ways quite harmful to its existence. Even look at the way we vote. A vote for a democrat here in texas is a vote wasted because once the state is carried, it is carried (texas is overwhelmingly republican). If the election were just a flat national majority, no votes would be wasted and you would have true representation of what the people want (they say 400 votes in one county carried George Bush to victory, when there are thousands of votes against him in other states that simply didn't matter at the end of the day once the state was carried). There is also this idea that "gee its their problem" when talking about other states as if we don't all share the same national debt, the same air, the same water, the same threats.

People praise diversity and de-centralized power, but every country has an agenda to get as much power and wealth for itself as it can.

This is why we're racing towards 'one world government' and consolidation of power -earlier in powerful nations, and then emire; now in regional consolidation (NAFTA, EU, etc.)

 

[xj0hnx]

But you need a strong centralized government because if you give the states too much power you end up with problems. Remember Jim Crow laws? Or segregration? Just last year a survey showed that 46% of Mississippi Republican voters thought interracial marriage should be illegal. You know, Mississippi, the extremely Republican run state. Imagine if the federal government just left a state like MS to it's own devices. There's a reason states rights can't be as powerful as they originally were

Strong centralized government indeed, to pass laws like the Fugitive Slavery Act, or the Indian Removal Act, maybe a little Japanese-American Interment, how about Operation "beautiful ray of sunshine"? Yea, guess what, it cuts both ways. There is no all benevolent federal government out there that's going to save the people from the evil states.

 

[xj0hnx]

-eliminate the 2nd amendment. I would still allow people to have guns in their homes and to go hunting with, but I really don't like concealed carry types who fantacize about scenarios where they can kill another person. Without a 2nd amendment, we would still have guns in this country.

It's a good thing nobody cares what you think. You really are naive if you believe that without the 2nd Amendment we'd still be able to have firearms.

 

[Sunburn74]

Strong centralized government indeed, to pass laws like the Fugitive Slavery Act, or the Indian Removal Act, maybe a little Japanese-American Interment, how about Operation "beautiful ray of sunshine"? Yea, guess what, it cuts both ways. There is no all benevolent federal government out there that's going to save the people from the evil states.

You forget the positive impetus and role the federal government played numerous civil rights and equality movements.

Anyway neither states nor the federal government are inherently good or evil. However, times change and laws, government, and the way things are done should be flexible enough to change with them. Is it possible that the idea of 50 states may one day be outdated and causing more harm than good? Certainly. Have we reached that point? I don't think so, but re-assessment of why we do things a certain way should be an ever on going process. There should be no idea in government that is untouchable, lest that idea become solely tradition, religion and dogma rather than being based on reason, logic and utilitarianism.

 

[micrometers]

It's a good thing nobody cares what you think. You really are naive if you believe that without the 2nd Amendment we'd still be able to have firearms.

we would. Guns are very popular.

Amendments come into play when unpopular things are contrary to public will. Like the 5th amendment. The guy citing it is often a criminal and everyone knows it.

All the 2nd amendment has done is obscure the debate about guns. Instead of talking about the cost/benefit of having them in society, the discussion gets stupid with talk about rights.

 

[Lemon law]

I have a slightly take, in all governments, a few advantaged individuals will always try to concentrate more and more wealth into fewer and fewer hands.

To some extent the USA has thus far avoided that fate by having a shortage of labor that seeks opportunities in expanding the country. Some of that ended when our US expansion settled the USA from the Atlantic to the Pacific, But ignited again as the USA transformed from a agricultural based economy to industrial economy. As our balance of trade continued to expand to 1980. And now the USA is in that death spiral as more and more wealth concentrates into fewer ad fewer hands.

And unless that process of concentration of wealth is checked by government and taxation policy, I don't believe the USA's future will be very bright.

But still the USA is an unusual nation in having that past expansion potential, but other well established societies without that vast expansion potentials have kept their economies balanced with economic reforms that prevent those vast wealth concentrations. And its always a moving process, as the wealthy adapt to the new order so new reforms are necessary.

 

[cave_dweller]

Get rid of all the Americans first

 

[NoStateofMind]

Communists want efficiency, I want freedom.

The planet has more than a 100 different government doing their own thing. You wish that to end as well?

I believe in plurality, in diversity. Not everyone must be dictated to and commanded from a centralized power. That's a horrible idea.

I agree with you more often than any other P&N member and that doesn't change here. If there are people who want to "update" the constitution there is a method for that called an amendment. So IMO its already perfect it just needs to be respected by way of being enforced. Not to mention that the current generation is growing up in a society that does not respect privacy of any kind. Therefore the Constitution is being subverted by way of desensitization. Retroactive immunity for telecommunications industry really opened my eyes. Now they sell your information to the government. Apparently you don't own your emails, pictures or conversations. All can be had for a price. The founding fathers knew no price was worth giving up their right to privacy and thought enough of it to include it by way of the 4th amendment.

There are many who thought the Constitution was old and outdated. The ones who thought this authored our new Constitution named "Patriot Act".

 

[cave_dweller]

So why use email then?. You can not expect anything but no privacy from free mail accounts

 

[Sunburn74]

There are many who thought the Constitution was old and outdated. The ones who thought this authored our new Constitution named "Patriot Act".

You can't liken perversion by the central government to represent all who want the amendments added or changed. The fact that the patriot act was passed and used for so long is proof the constitution is not perfect, as this is a law that is pretty much against the interests of the people and yet we could do nothing about it.

I'm not saying the constitution is horribly flawed and should be thrown out, but rather we should start looking at it with modern lenses. We have horrible problems with party politics. We have horrible problems with corporations undermining democracy. We have horrible problems with politicians selecting their own interests over the interests of the people. All of these things, the constitution does nothing to address because these problems didn't really exist at the time it was written. These are things it needs to talk about today, rather than keeping lines in about quartering soldiers in wartime and etc.

 

[xj0hnx]

You forget the positive impetus and role the federal government played numerous civil rights and equality movements.

Anyway neither states nor the federal government are inherently good or evil. However, times change and laws, government, and the way things are done should be flexible enough to change with them. Is it possible that the idea of 50 states may one day be outdated and causing more harm than good? Certainly. Have we reached that point? I don't think so, but re-assessment of why we do things a certain way should be an ever on going process. There should be no idea in government that is untouchable, lest that idea become solely tradition, religion and dogma rather than being based on reason, logic and utilitarianism.

How could the idea of different states become "out dated"? The problem is that we try to legislate down to the smallest factor, some would have every aspect of your life, cradle to grave, dawn to dusk under the mantle of government control. The role of the federal government is to provide a very basic, even platform, the basics, and then to get out of the way and let the people live. It's OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people, and I think a lot of people forget that.

 

[Lithium381]

Enforce the Constitution ++

-eliminate the 2nd amendment. I would still allow people to have guns in their homes and to go hunting with, but I really don't like concealed carry types who fantacize about scenarios where they can kill another person. Without a 2nd amendment, we would still have guns in this country.
.

Wow . . . there are people without concealed carry that fantasize about killing other people as well. Also, look at how rabbid the left is at getting rid of guns, we would lose them in a heartbeat without the second amendment. The armed citizentry is VITAL.

Get rid of all the Americans first

wut?

You can't liken perversion by the central government to represent all who want the amendments added or changed. The fact that the patriot act was passed and used for so long is proof the constitution is not perfect, as this is a law that is pretty much against the interests of the people and yet we could do nothing about it.

I'm not saying the constitution is horribly flawed and should be thrown out, but rather we should start looking at it with modern lenses. We have horrible problems with party politics. We have horrible problems with corporations undermining democracy. We have horrible problems with politicians selecting their own interests over the interests of the people. All of these things, the constitution does nothing to address because these problems didn't really exist at the time it was written. These are things it needs to talk about today, rather than keeping lines in about quartering soldiers in wartime and etc.

we need more states rights and less federal power. as far as federal power goes, don't let the fed try and regulate everything under the guise of the 10th amendment.

 

[Sunburn74]

How could the idea of different states become "out dated"? The problem is that we try to legislate down to the smallest factor, some would have every aspect of your life, cradle to grave, dawn to dusk under the mantle of government control. The role of the federal government is to provide a very basic, even platform, the basics, and then to get out of the way and let the people live. It's OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people, and I think a lot of people forget that.

If there is anyone who passes inane legislation about the smallest and most trivial things, its the states. Federal law is usually pretty broad and open to wide interpretation; thus why they are so frequently in court over stuff.

Enforce the Constitution ++
Wow . . . there are people without concealed carry that fantasize about killing other people as well. Also, look at how rabbid the left is at getting rid of guns, we would lose them in a heartbeat without the second amendment. The armed citizentry is VITAL.

we need more states rights and less federal power. as far as federal power goes, don't let the fed try and regulate everything under the guise of the 10th amendment.

I completely disagree with you about the need to arm citizens.

I can understand a gun for personal protection, but I don't see it as a need. I completely disagree with the argument at all for arming the citizenry in case the government gets uppity and out of control.


As for more states rights and less federal power, what is your evidence for state governments being good things? I'm all for smaller government, more open markets, more equality between men women etc etc. Maybe some medical marijuana stuff, the individual mandate in MA, and legal physician assisted suicide in oregon, but honestly when I look back at history and the big milestone for progress (roe v wade, the scopes monkey trial, the civil rights movement, women's rights movements, etc etc) the states have always stood in the way. Honestly, can you give me 3 or 4 examples of State government doing anything remarkably good for the people, key word being remarkably? I'm not interested in little silly stuff like low taxes and building houses and so on. I mean something remarkable here.

 

[kyp275]

I would add lots of ponies.

lots and lots of ponies.

with some rainbows.

and then maybe people would stop whining about stuff.

or more likely they'd just beat the ponies to a pulp and then continue to bicker about partisan stuff.

 

[Greenman]

Enforced

2nd

 

[werepossum]

:thumbsup:x3

Only problem today is tyranny of the majority and the dictation of a centralized power. Return us to a Congress of LIMITED ENUMERATED powers, enforce the Bill of Rights from beginning to end, and let states handle the rest.

What would make the U.S. Constitution more perfect is if we actually practiced the freedom and liberty which we preach.

Communists want efficiency, I want freedom.

The planet has more than a 100 different government doing their own thing. You wish that to end as well?

I believe in plurality, in diversity. Not everyone must be dictated to and commanded from a centralized power. That's a horrible idea.

Very well said. Personally I'd stick in some term limits for Congresscritters (both chambers), repeal the 16th and 17th Amendments, stick a codicil into the 14th Amendment that only if you are legally in the country are your children automatically citizens, and put the 2nd and 10th Amendments in all caps, bold. But the main thing we need is to enforce it, strictly.

 

[BoberFett]

You can't make the Constitution perfect. Hell, our "leaders" ignore it as it is.

 

[ichy]

Eliminate the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. Yes, I am completely serious about this. The way it's currently worded is so vague and meaningless that it allows judges to simply impose whatever their definition of cruel & unusual is and bypass the democratic process.

 

[xj0hnx]

I completely disagree with you about the need to arm citizens.

I can understand a gun for personal protection, but I don't see it as a need.

Of course you don't, you think the state can protect you because you've never experienced needing to protect yourself, that's what happens when one leads a sheltered life.

I completely disagree with the argument at all for arming the citizenry in case the government gets uppity and out of control.

That is a large part of the 2nd, but then again, a nanny stater wouldn't want the citizens to be able to keep their beloved government in line.

 

[Sunburn74]

Of course you don't, you think the state can protect you because you've never experienced needing to protect yourself, that's what happens when one leads a sheltered life.

That is a large part of the 2nd, but then again, a nanny stater wouldn't want the citizens to be able to keep their beloved government in line.

Dude you know nothing about me. You are probably more sheltered than I am. I was born and lived in the third world for the first 8 years of my life, prior to living in london for about 10 and then moving to houston. My father drove a taxi most of his life, and then worked in a jail for a bit as a guard. I went to public schools were kids were regularly stabbed in bathrooms (london) and schools were gang beating required a daily police presence after school (houston). I've had my house broken into by 4 armed bandits, had my mother and father tied up, my father beaten in front of me and all our valuable possessions taken without being able to do a damn thing about it. Even with all that, I still just barely believe in guns for personal protection. So don't assume shit about anyone just because they disagree with you.

 

[BoberFett]

I've had my house broken into by 4 armed bandits, had my mother and father tied up, my father beaten in front of me and all our valuable possessions taken without being able to do a damn thing about it.

So you like being a victim? You must be a Democrat...

 

[xBiffx]

Well, we could start by stocking Charmin again instead of this.....

 

[xj0hnx]

Dude you know nothing about me. You are probably more sheltered than I am. I was born and lived in the third world for the first 8 years of my life, prior to living in london for about 10 and then moving to houston. My father drove a taxi most of his life, and then worked in a jail for a bit as a guard. I went to public schools were kids were regularly stabbed in bathrooms (london) and schools were gang beating required a daily police presence after school (houston). I've had my house broken into by 4 armed bandits, had my mother and father tied up, my father beaten in front of me and all our valuable possessions taken without being able to do a damn thing about it. Even with all that, I still just barely believe in guns for personal protection. So don't assume shit about anyone just because they disagree with you.

Cool story bro, if a word of it is true ...the bolded above is irrelevant, as in what goes on around you, but not to you doesn't mean jack. As far as the home invasion, how old were you? Two? If you want to be a victim that's great, be a victim, some of us aren't going to be, and aren't going to be made to be victims, by victims because you want to remain one.

 

[IGBT]

If the US assimilated all cultures how would the race baiting mega phone maniacs make a living?? Who would they enrage with their fear/envy and class war fare liberal vile?? The slime disguised as sophisticates like sharpton/jackson/Rev. Wright would have to get a real job. Maybe they could get one of those janitor jobs Gingrich was talking about.

 

[Joepublic2]

The whole states idea was a cockamamie one in the first place. What if you body functioned like the US, where your hand was always opposed to brain or your stomach to your heart? If you really want efficiency in government, you can't have 50 different governments doing their own thing.

It was a good idea, getting different states to compete with each other and try different ideas with regards to how to best govern their citizens. A lot of the problems in the world today are brought about by over-centralization of power and giving states a greater degree of autonomy was one way to help slow/prevent this. It's also why we had three (I'd argue we functionally don't anymore) separate branches of federal government, making consolidation of power more difficult.