How would you deal with the debt?

[Anarchist420]

I'd just end the Fed, repeal legal tender for private debts, and replace the old money supply (somewhere between M1 and M2 as Rothbard pointed out) with non-credit non-debt non-legal fiat paper and give it to their original owners. Restoring the gold standard isn't really possible because it is a govt standard. It would be painful, but it's better than taxing old debt and the creditors have no right to it anyway. However, there lies one problem with all of that... it would be with the Constitution because it prescribes a govt that can tax, borrow, print, and the fact that it created inherently centralized enforcment of the three via one executive.

It's most unfortunate that we're going to get Empire before we have any liberty.

How would you deal with the debt? Why have you been okay with the fact that the govt can do 3 bad things?... two of which are illegal for you to do and the third may be legal for you, but you do it because the govt prints and taxes so that you're forced to borrow. You also do the borrowing on a much smaller scale than the govt does so the govt takes the credit from society, society doesn't take the credit from the govt.

Does anyone else see why NIRP was a terrible policy? Operation screw will suck because it will make people in debt and make people who never had anything keep borrowing. It has stimulated the economy, but it will crash it sooner or later. After depression has gone on for a year or so, then hyperinflation (where the Treasury just directly prints cash and dumps it everywhere) will come. Romney will be doing that but Obama won't be. Obama cared, but he was too young and surrounded by too many bad people to do much good. He was responsible for the smaller amount of govt and private growth though, not the Republicans. The Republicans are much more responsible because of pro-business policies, the Conservative Supreme Court's terrible decisions, and for giving Obama excessive spending bills that he wanted to veto. The biggest tax cut (the payroll tax cut and raising the top marginal rate while keeping the ones below the same) were Obama's idea... Obama would've starved the beast like no one before. If there is one thing supply siders are good at, it is creating artificial growth and more revenue for the govt to waste... that's why I wish the Republicans would just let the Democrats raise the top marginal income tax rate to 100%.

 

[Veliko]

Eat it.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Acanthus]

Welch on all of the domestic debt.

Negotiate with foreign debt to pay it off for pennies on the dollar, or stop payments altogether.

*disclaimer*

This is if we were in a dire debt situation, which we are not.

 

[nehalem256]

Welch on all of the domestic debt.

Negotiate with foreign debt to pay it off for pennies on the dollar, or stop payments altogether.

*disclaimer*

This is if we were in a dire debt situation, which we are not.

Wouldn't you want to do the opposite?

You are essentially suggesting that you screw over your brother/uncle and payback Citigroup.

 

[momeNt]

How would I deal with it? Probably drive it off a cliff. We can't be reformed into a free market. We can only crash and burn and pick up the pieces into a free market.

 

[Acanthus]

Wouldn't you want to do the opposite?

You are essentially suggesting that you screw over your brother/uncle and payback Citigroup.

More like screw over everyone but the nations that have armies to enforce their debt.

 

[Anarchist420]

More like screw over everyone but the nations that have armies to enforce their debt.

No, half (if that's what you mean by "nations") will get screwed by the excessive spending more than they already have. China will colonize America... I don't see a way out of it at this point. The govt did it to the people, and it may have been fun while it lasted, but the fact that so many people love Romney or don't mind him shows how ignorant 50% of the population is. I saw right through the Neo-TP idiots like Sarah McPalin and M Bachmann and they make me want to die like right now... it's too depressing to think about the bad that could happen to me and the individuals I think aren't bad.

 

[momeNt]

No, half (if that's what you mean by "nations") will get screwed by the excessive spending more than they already have. China will colonize America... I don't see a way out of it at this point. The govt did it to the people, and it may have been fun while it lasted, but the fact that so many people love Romney or don't mind him shows how ignorant 50% of the population is. I saw right through the Neo-TP idiots like Sarah McPalin and M Bachmann and they make me want to die like right now... it's too depressing to think about the bad that could happen to me and the individuals I think aren't bad.

Can you walk us through what this colonization will look like? Violent? Will it be de facto where we somehow go back to mercantilism with the main benefactor being China? That would take a while considering they are so geared for exporting and us for importing that a switch of the balance of trade back where USA actually nets positive with China would probably take nearly a whole generation.

 

[SandEagle]

what is the debt at now? someone recently told me 4m, but i thought is was closer to 14m?

 

[Anarchist420]

That said, it's funny how the least of our worries were the ones we were told were the most evil. There were those evil Islamo-terrorists we were warned about after the fact (they were invited here to bomb the Alfred P Murrah building in 1995 by the fucking govt FFS!), there was the neoconservative and neoliberal boogeyman of voluntary trade, and there were budget deficits, low GDP, and low employment all of which we were supposed to worry about even though they weren't real.

Ironically, the U.S. govt will have helped those Islamo-terrorists out ultimately, it will have solved the deficit, unemployment, and recessionism by regulations, making the Fed stronger via Romney ordering the Treasury Dept. to start printing money and dumping it on us, China will no longer be able to trade voluntarily with us because of the WTO and trade will be even more regulated by NAFTA, KAFTA, CAFTA, SAFTA, the other SAFTA, RAFTA (actually it already was starting with beginning of the real WWII which started after World Battle II/World War I ended), etc., etc.

This country's govt can burn in hell, seriously. It is so evil and irrational. It had the most emotional and illogical people running it except for me and I don't want to ever get into a position of power. It has shown me that I just need to be a dependent and that I need to make sure I die soon. It has shown me how miserable I've been and it has made others miserable. I quite possibly would've just been better off dying before now without any vaccines. My life sucked and it made the lives of everyone else suck too if it made any difference at all. It will probably only get worse if I don't die by the end of this current year.

 

[child of wonder]

Begin gradual welfare reform, military cutbacks, subsidy reduction and elimination, and other budgetary cutbacks. Simplify the tax code and close loopholes. Enact tariffs on offshore manufacturing and outsourcing.

As we slowly turn our yearly deficit into a surplus we'll begin paying down the national debt.

 

[Anarchist420]

Can you walk us through what this colonization will look like? Violent? Will it be de facto where we somehow go back to mercantilism with the main benefactor being China? That would take a while considering they are so geared for exporting and us for importing that a switch of the balance of trade back where USA actually nets positive with China would probably take nearly a whole generation.

Maybe it won't be China, maybe the US govt will have killed almost every Subject left behind. I know that more and more innocent individuals are going to start getting kidnapped in more and more numbers and tortured in foreign countries left and right. Not only is it inhumane, it is sickening. It is like the state is trying to force happiness for the meanest, rudest people and nothing but misery, fear, and anger for the good and ambivalent people. I'm probably going to get kicked out and tortured with a whole ton of other innocent people... they can just kill me right away, the govt doesn't have to torture. Even if a private corporation or a foreign govt does it, it will be because of the American state. If the Soviet gulags and Nazi concentration camps were bad (and they both were), then what the U.S. govt is about to do (and it will) is ultra terrorist.

 

[piasabird]

I think we have more than enough in taxes as far as the tax rates go. The real problem is that the elected officials in Washington are continuing to spend money like it is business as usual even though our debt is reaching historic amounts that have not occured since WWII when we were at war with both japan and germany. It is time for the budget office to be granted emergency powers and refuse to fund anything except for necessities. There should be no discretionary spending. In reality a new great depression could be coming if we dont get our act together.

First thing I would do is pull all of our military out of foreign countries. Let the world police itself.

Next I would come to grips with the fact that SS and Medicare is bankrupting the country and medicare is unable to even keep up with its present requirements. Also the new unaffordable health Care death panel act is going to make things worse, and the real bill for that has not even come into effect. Wait till you have to start paying penalities to the IRS. Better yet, how is the IRS even going to try to keep up with it?
It is time for real cuts to medicare, and some alternatives like private insurance to replace it or supplement it.

Then there are all the deductions and credits we need to get rid of. They need to be slowly done away with over the next 5-10 years and we need to start with the wealthy who do not need any deductions except real charity that helps the underprivlidged.

New York state went to the brink once where no one would buy its bonds and went into default. The same thing could happen to the federal government. Even if Romney wins election it will be tough to turn the ship around before it goes over the fiscal cliff.

 

[piasabird]

The president needs to be granted the line-item-veto so he can just cross out all the unneeded expenses the country can not afford to pay in all spending bills.

 

[nehalem256]

More like screw over everyone but the nations that have armies to enforce their debt.

Unless those armies are lead by Jesus Christ I don't think we have to worry about them .

Besides what is the point in spending more money on the military than every other country in the world combined if we are still going to be afraid of them?

 

[piasabird]

Quit buying crap from China. Tarriff all goods from China and overseas. Quit importing automobiles from overseas.

 

[Atreus21]

Quit buying crap from China. Tarriff all goods from China and overseas. Quit importing automobiles from overseas.

Yeah, that won't kill the economy.

My question is not how to deal with the debt but the underlying problem: Why is it so goddamned hard to run a surplus, and therefore reduce the debt?

 

[Tom]

Yeah, that won't kill the economy.

My question is not how to deal with the debt but the underlying problem: Why is it so goddamned hard to run a surplus, and therefore reduce the debt?

because people are greedy and don't want to pay taxes.

 

[momeNt]

Yeah, that won't kill the economy.

My question is not how to deal with the debt but the underlying problem: Why is it so goddamned hard to run a surplus, and therefore reduce the debt?

It would take money out of circulation and cause deflation. Institutions that control the money supply (banks) make all their money on credit, and they have strong incentives to continue to expand credit (leaving their amount of credit the same makes it easier to find out if their credit operations are actually profitable). They will see the deflation coming and ramp up credit operations. This happened when Clinton ran a surplus yet there was no deflation. Private lending (all money that doesn't have a physical note or coin attached to it) ramped up to offset the surplus which took money out of the economy.

 

[Todd33]

Increase revenue and decrease spending. 10% across the board spending cuts would be a nice start.

 

[Oyeve]

Print a shitload of $10,000 bills and pay everythung in cash.

 

[Atreus21]

It would take money out of circulation and cause deflation. Institutions that control the money supply (banks) make all their money on credit, and they have strong incentives to continue to expand credit (leaving their amount of credit the same makes it easier to find out if their credit operations are actually profitable). They will see the deflation coming and ramp up credit operations. This happened when Clinton ran a surplus yet there was no deflation. Private lending (all money that doesn't have a physical note or coin attached to it) ramped up to offset the surplus which took money out of the economy.

So cause deflation. If that's what it takes that's what it takes.

And Clinton did not run a surplus.

 

[SagaLore]

I would raise taxes to 50% income and 50% property for 1 year, then forgive all personal debt in the US up to that point. I shall call it the "Grand Blitz and Reset".

 

[momeNt]

So cause deflation. If that's what it takes that's what it takes.

And Clinton did not run a surplus.

Well before you do that, you probably need to beef up bankruptcy courts to handle the influx. The only way out of this to try and divert disaster is to deleverage across the board. Once the deflation hits the bankruptcies need to be handled quickly and efficiently because it will be impossible for private entities to service their debt.

 

[Wreckem]

what is the debt at now? someone recently told me 4m, but i thought is was closer to 14m?

The national debt is $16.2trillion.

Of that 1/3 is owed to foreign countries. Slightly 2/3s is owed domestically,

About half of the domestically owed debt is for Social Security and the Federal Pension systems.

Medicares liabilities aren't on the official books because they aren't actual debts. But there is about $40trillion in unfunded medicare liabilities over the next couple decades if medicare is not changed. And Paul Ryan's plan does nothing to fix medicare, it just shifts who is getting paid.