How will Putin/Russia explain this (about the GPS Jammers alleged to be sold to Iraq)

[dahunan]

The company's promotional brochure, obtained by Agence France-Presse, specifically markets the device as a means to bolster Iraq's comparatively meager military might against that of the U.S.:


**There are several regions of the world where international tension exists between rival countries which are not equivalent from the military point of view. For example: the United Arab Emirates against Iran, Iraq against the USA ... The situation seems hopeless for countries with limited resources. Nevertheless, there is a way out. The firm Aviaconversiya has developed a jammer for GPS. A small number will greatly increase defense effectiveness. ... Without knowledge of positions it is impossible to fulfill combat missions and for headquarters to control troops. ... If you can't destroy the enemy, paralyze its combat actions.

and this

In August 1997, NAIC personnel attended an air show in Moscow where they took pictures of Aviaconversiya's exhibit and spoke to Antonov about the GPS-jammer product, which was fully functional at the time.

The portable jamming unit weighs 28 pounds and has an output power of 4 watts. It is capable of blocking GPS signals from a range of up to 200 kilometers.


Aviaconversiya jamming transmitter for GPS/GLONASS satellite navigation receivers.


"Antonov said that he has already recently marketed the jammer in the Middle East and said he has several potential customers there. He declined to elaborate further as to who may have already contracted for his jammer," wrote the reporting officer in the NAIC assessment. "Dr. Antonov said the sophistication of the signal jammers was beyond the technical ability of his Middle Eastern customers. He said that besides Russia, only France, the United States, Germany, Italy, Sweden/Norway, and possibly Israel are able to build these sophisticated signal generators."


Map of Iraq with jamming transmitters lining the borders.


Among the pictures NAIC took of the Aviaconversiya exhibit was a map of Iraq with symbols indicating signal transmissions ringing the perimeter of the country.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31773

 

[SuperTool]

So where is proof that they directly sold this to Iraq?
Using Iraq as a marketing example is not the same as selling weapons there in violation of UN sanctions. Not that it matters since UN is so last year anyways. I really don't think Powell has a leg to stand on bashing Russia for ignoring the UN.
28 lbs, they could have sold it to anyone, and it could be sold many times over. I wouldn't be suprised if one showed up on ebay one of these days.
Anyways, these are defensive weapons. There are no guarantees in life that you will be able to use GPS bombs on another country without that country trying to defend itself. The UN goal was to rid Iraq of WMD, and GPS jammer is not a WMD by any stretch.
If Russia really was in the business of supplying Iraq with arms, there are a lot nastier weapons they could have passed along.
Also, I am concerned about our military's increased reliance on GPS. While these particular jammers appear to not have worked well, this is a huge vulnerability that we have voluntarily integrated into our weapons systems. There will no doubt be better jammers in the future, and everyone and their mother will have them.

 

[Mark R]

GPS is a very vulnerable system, and can be easily jammed. There are plenty of case reports of even something as simple as a domestic TV antenna booster, completely jamming GPS signals for hundreds of yards, or even a few miles. Anyone skilled in microwave electronics could build an effective GPS jammer from readily available parts for less than the cost of a typical GPS receiver (Schematics &c. are readily available on the web).

The military system is slightly more robust than the civilian system in that it can detect a faked tranmission - but still suffers from the fact that the signal strength is extremely low.

The problem with any ground based jammer for GPS or any other system, is that it broadcasts its presence to anyone who cares to listen - locating and destroying such a device should be a simple task for any well equipped military force.

 

[Zebo]

And people are wondering why our some of our ordinance is sometimes are off the mark in bagdag.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
And people are wondering why our some of our ordinance is sometimes are off the mark in bagdag.

Ehhh, this might be the reason, or maybe they are just the less accurate units. Having a CEP of 10 meters doesnt guarantee they will all hit inside 20

 

[OFFascist]

What are you all talking about?

The other day CENTCOM reported that they not only were able to determine the location of the jammers, but that they were able to target and destroy them. One of them with a GPS guided bomb. So apparently they didnt work as advertised.

I hope that definately puts a dent in sales of them, and hurts the Russian firm.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: OFFascist
What are you all talking about?

The other day CENTCOM reported that they not only were able to determine the location of the jammers, but that they were able to target and destroy them. One of them with a GPS guided bomb. So apparently they didnt work as advertised.

I hope that definately puts a dent in sales of them, and hurts the Russian firm.

That's exactly why they say it. So that other countries don't buy the units. I am not sure how true the story is.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
And people are wondering why our some of our ordinance is sometimes are off the mark in bagdag.

There is still no proof that any coaliton bombs have been "off the mark" in Baghdad. So far it seems that if they miss, they miss by a large margin. The cruise missile that landed in SA for example.



bbc

1857: British intelligence sources say Iraq has replaced the commander of air defence forces after Iraqi surface-to-air missiles, aimed at Western warplanes, had missed and fallen back on the Iraqi capital.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: OFFascist
What are you all talking about?

The other day CENTCOM reported that they not only were able to determine the location of the jammers, but that they were able to target and destroy them. One of them with a GPS guided bomb. So apparently they didnt work as advertised.

I hope that definately puts a dent in sales of them, and hurts the Russian firm.

That's exactly why they say it. So that other countries don't buy the units. I am not sure how true the story is.

Yet you question the FACT that someone in Russia knew that these units were being sold to Iraq in direct violation of the UN embargo, which wasn't just about WMD in case you haven't read. Then you critisize the U.S. for "ignoring the UN" when Russia explicitly obstructed Coalition efforts at the UN after having completely ignored the same body while peddling weapons.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: OFFascist
What are you all talking about?

The other day CENTCOM reported that they not only were able to determine the location of the jammers, but that they were able to target and destroy them. One of them with a GPS guided bomb. So apparently they didnt work as advertised.

I hope that definately puts a dent in sales of them, and hurts the Russian firm.

That's exactly why they say it. So that other countries don't buy the units. I am not sure how true the story is.

Yet you question the FACT that someone in Russia knew that these units were being sold to Iraq in direct violation of the UN embargo, which wasn't just about WMD in case you haven't read. Then you critisize the U.S. for "ignoring the UN" when Russia explicitly obstructed Coalition efforts at the UN after having completely ignored the same body while peddling weapons.

OK, how is it a FACT? Where is the evidence? How do you know that one of their clients didn't resell it back to Iraq. I guess you think Russia keeps track of where each 25kg GPS unit or each AK 47 is headed?
Most of the world wanted the sanctions lifted long time ago. It's only the US and UK vetoes on the UNSC that kept the sanctions in place.
Russia very well might have sold a lot of weapons to countries that might have passed along them to Iraq, but it's more of a willful ignorance than direct aid to Iraq. I am sure the Russians weren't too upset when the weapons made it to Iraq, because these are defensive weapons, and frankly Iraq has a right to defend itself just like anyone else.

 

[dahunan]

What I find strange is .. why would a company advertise a product that is benneficial for Iraq during a time of UN Sanctions?

 

[Kenazo]

anyone care to remember what kind of arms supplying fiasco's the US has been involved in over the years? I don't think this is too big a deal.

 

[Dangermouse33]

Simple - "we're bastards!"

 

[steell]

Originally posted by: Dangermouse33
Simple - "we're bastards!"

Speak for yourself please, my mother and father were married to each other when I was born.

 

[AndrewR]

OK, how is it a FACT? Where is the evidence? How do you know that one of their clients didn't resell it back to Iraq. I guess you think Russia keeps track of where each 25kg GPS unit or each AK 47 is headed?
Most of the world wanted the sanctions lifted long time ago. It's only the US and UK vetoes on the UNSC that kept the sanctions in place.
Russia very well might have sold a lot of weapons to countries that might have passed along them to Iraq, but it's more of a willful ignorance than direct aid to Iraq. I am sure the Russians weren't too upset when the weapons made it to Iraq, because these are defensive weapons, and frankly Iraq has a right to defend itself just like anyone else.

So, you're telling me that you naively believe that in a former totalitarian regime where government and industry, particularly military industry, are hopelessly intertwined that no one at the higher reaches of the Russian government was aware that a new and decidedly anti-American electronic warfare device was being sold abroad to an enemy of the United States in direct violation of a UN embargo? No apologies -- if you believe that, you're quite stupid.

Certainly, Russia, Ukraine, China, Germany, and France wanted the sanctions lifted because they were already violating them -- why continue a charade of obeying the UN?

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
OK, how is it a FACT? Where is the evidence? How do you know that one of their clients didn't resell it back to Iraq. I guess you think Russia keeps track of where each 25kg GPS unit or each AK 47 is headed?
Most of the world wanted the sanctions lifted long time ago. It's only the US and UK vetoes on the UNSC that kept the sanctions in place.
Russia very well might have sold a lot of weapons to countries that might have passed along them to Iraq, but it's more of a willful ignorance than direct aid to Iraq. I am sure the Russians weren't too upset when the weapons made it to Iraq, because these are defensive weapons, and frankly Iraq has a right to defend itself just like anyone else.

So, you're telling me that you naively believe that in a former totalitarian regime where government and industry, particularly military industry, are hopelessly intertwined that no one at the higher reaches of the Russian government was aware that a new and decidedly anti-American electronic warfare device was being sold abroad to an enemy of the United States in direct violation of a UN embargo? No apologies -- if you believe that, you're quite stupid.

Certainly, Russia, Ukraine, China, Germany, and France wanted the sanctions lifted because they were already violating them -- why continue a charade of obeying the UN?

not too mentions the BILLIONS in deals lined up with Saddam that only got cashed in on once sanctions were lifted....but that couldnt have been their motives, otherwise they would be demanding to profit from rebuilding too.......

Like the Iraqi people would want anyone that conspired and violated the UN in an effort to keep Saddam in power, as they CLEARLY did...

 

[Bleep]

No worries mate, whatever they got we got something better, we probably got a bomb that will follow the jammer signal right to the jammer.

Bleep

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: dahunan

The company's promotional brochure, obtained by Agence France-Presse, specifically markets the device as a means to bolster Iraq's comparatively meager military might against that of the U.S.:


**There are several regions of the world where international tension exists between rival countries which are not equivalent from the military point of view. For example: the United Arab Emirates against Iran, Iraq against the USA ... The situation seems hopeless for countries with limited resources. Nevertheless, there is a way out. The firm Aviaconversiya has developed a jammer for GPS. A small number will greatly increase defense effectiveness. ... Without knowledge of positions it is impossible to fulfill combat missions and for headquarters to control troops. ... If you can't destroy the enemy, paralyze its combat actions.

and this

In August 1997, NAIC personnel attended an air show in Moscow where they took pictures of Aviaconversiya's exhibit and spoke to Antonov about the GPS-jammer product, which was fully functional at the time.

The portable jamming unit weighs 28 pounds and has an output power of 4 watts. It is capable of blocking GPS signals from a range of up to 200 kilometers.


Aviaconversiya jamming transmitter for GPS/GLONASS satellite navigation receivers.


"Antonov said that he has already recently marketed the jammer in the Middle East and said he has several potential customers there. He declined to elaborate further as to who may have already contracted for his jammer," wrote the reporting officer in the NAIC assessment. "Dr. Antonov said the sophistication of the signal jammers was beyond the technical ability of his Middle Eastern customers. He said that besides Russia, only France, the United States, Germany, Italy, Sweden/Norway, and possibly Israel are able to build these sophisticated signal generators."


Map of Iraq with jamming transmitters lining the borders.


Among the pictures NAIC took of the Aviaconversiya exhibit was a map of Iraq with symbols indicating signal transmissions ringing the perimeter of the country.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31773

Probably the same way the US explained giving bin Laden and the Afghans SAMs during their war with Russia.