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How Will Humans Survive

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Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: So
We'll be fine. Assuming we don't slip into another dark age, we'll approach the level of the 2nd and 3rd kadashev civilizations. At that point, I doubt we'll have much trouble refueling old Sol or moving little Terra to a younger or completely engineered star.
Your link is inaccurate.


exerpt from Michio Kaku's book, Hyperspace.
A Type I civilization is one that controls the energy resources of an entire planet. This civilization can control the weather, prevent earth- quakes, mine deep in the earth's crust, and harvest the oceans. This civilization has already completed the exploration of its solar system. A Type 11 civilization is one that controls the power of the sun itself. This does not mean passively harnessing solar energy; this civilization mines the sun. The energy needs of this civilization are so large directly consumes the power of the sun to drive its machines. The civilization will begin the colonization of local star systems.

A Type III civilization is one that controls the power of an entire galaxy. For a power source, it harnesses the power of billions of star systems. It has probably mastered Einstein's equations and can manipulate space-time at will. The basis of this classification is rather simple: Each level is catergorized on the basis of the power source that energizes the civilization. Type I civilizations use the power of an entire planet. Type II civilizations use the power of an entire star. Type III civilizations use the power of an entire galaxy. This classification ignores any predictions concerning the detailed nature of future civilizations (which are bound to be wrong) and instead focuses on aspects that can be reasonably understood by the laws of physics, such as energy supply.

Our civilization, by contrast, can be categorized as a Type 0 civilization, one that is just beginning to tap planetary resources, but does not have the technology and resources to control them. A Type 0 civilization like ours derives its energy from fossil fuels like oil and coal and, in much of the Third World, from raw human labor. Our largest computers can- not even predict the weather, let alone control it. Viewed from this larger perspective, we as a civilization are like a newborn infant.

Although one might guess that the slow march from a Type 0 civilization to a Type III civilization might take millions of years, the extraordinary fact about this classification scheme is that this climb is an exponential one and hence proceeds much faster than anything we can readily conceive.

With all these qualifications, we can still make educated guesses about when our civilization will reach these milestones. Given the rate at which our civilization is growing, we might expect to reach Type I status within a few centuries.

For example, the largest energy source available to our Type 0 civilization is the hydrogen bomb. Our technology is so primitive that we can unleash the power of hydrogen fusion only by detonating a bomb, rather than controlling it in a power generator. However, a simple hurricane generates the power of hundreds of hydrogen bombs. Thus weather control, which is one feature of Type I civilizations, is at least a century away from today's technology.

Similarly, a Type I civilization has already colonized most of its solar system. By contrast, milestones in today's development of space travel are painfully measured on the scale of decades, and therefore qualitative leaps such as space colonization must be measured in centuries. For example, the earliest date for NASA's manned landing on the planet Mars is 2020. Therefore, the colonization of Mars may take place 40 to 50 years after that, and the colonization of the solar system within a century.

By contrast, the transition from a Type I to a Type II civilization may take only 1,000 years. Given the exponential growth of civilization, we may expect that within 1,000 years the energy needs of a civilization will become so large that it must begin to mine the sun to energize its machines.

A typical example of a Type II civilization is the Federation of Planets in the "Star Trek" series. This civilization has just begun to master the gravitational force-that is, the art of warping space-time via holes-and hence, for the first time, has the capability of reaching nearby stars. It has evaded the limit placed by the speed of light by mastering Einstein's theory of general relativity. Small colonies have been established on some of these systems, which the starship Enterprise is sworn to protect. The civilization's starships are powered by the collision of matter and antimatter. The ability to create large concentrations of antimatter suitable for space travel places that civilization many centuries to a millennium away from ours.

Advancing to a Type III civilization may take several thousand years ore. This is, in fact, the time scale predicted by Isaac Asimov in his c Foundation Series, which describes the rise, fall, and re-emergence of a galactic civilization. The time scale involved in each of these transitions involves thousands of years. This civilization has harnessed the energy source contained within the galaxy itself. To it, warp drive, ad of being an exotic form of travel to the nearby stars, is the standard means of trade and commerce between sectors of the galaxy. Thus although it took 2 million years for our species to leave the safety of the forests and build a modem civilization, it may take only thousands of to leave the safety of our solar system and build a galactic civilization.

One option open to a Type III civilization is harnessing the power of supernovae or black holes. Its starships may even be able to probe the galactic nucleus, which is perhaps the most mysterious of all energy sources. Astrophysicists have theorized that because of the enormous size of the galactic nucleus, the center of our galaxy may contain millions of black holes. If true, this would provide virtually unlimited amounts of energy.

At this point, manipulating energies a million billion times larger than present-day energies should be possible. Thus for a Type III civilization, with the energy output of uncountable star systems and perhaps the galactic nucleus at its disposal, the mastery of the tenth dimension' becomes a real possibility.

Most interesting. Do you have a link with this summary for future Reference? (My link came from a quick google when I first heard of the 'kardashev civilizations'
 
There is a certain sadness that runs through me when I read something like "we will be able to colonize other solar systems within 1000 years"

 
Originally posted by: Stumps
the human race will be long extinct before the sun even thinks about dying..the sad truth is that we will have destroyed ourselve long before that..human nature can't be altered no matter how many nukes or future super weapons we dismatle to try and save ourselves. it's just human nature to destroy ourselves. there is no hope


An optimist, I see.

You assume we'll destroy ourselves even though we haven't had a major war in 50 years, and people have repeatedly shown the good sense to back down when nuclear arms are waved in the air. Futher, even if you consider global warming -- many nations are concerned to the point of paranoia, and we have repeatedly shown the wherewithal to fix the problems we create. We're really good at beating the sh!t out of each other, but we're just as good at surviving each other's sh!t.
 
Originally posted by: amoeba
There is a certain sadness that runs through me when I read something like "we will be able to colonize other solar systems within 1000 years"

I'd call it pride. Sci-Fi has made our own solar system seem small. We live in a pretty big neighborhood, and as a result, I think we won't be bored with Sol's little sattelites for quite a while.
 
Originally posted by: episodic
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Ninepepper.. i dont know what youre talking about... however episodic how are you so sure we will survive?

You mean that we won't survive?

Laws of averages. 65 million years ago all dominant forms of life were wiped.

300 million years ago, there was another grand extinction.

Something will give us the smackdown as a species eventually - and long before 5-15 billion years culminate.


what about crocs ?
 
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: episodic
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Ninepepper.. i dont know what youre talking about... however episodic how are you so sure we will survive?

You mean that we won't survive?

Laws of averages. 65 million years ago all dominant forms of life were wiped.

300 million years ago, there was another grand extinction.

Something will give us the smackdown as a species eventually - and long before 5-15 billion years culminate.


what about crocs ?

What about the fact that if we get off our fat asses, we won't only be on this rock much longer?
 
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: amoeba
There is a certain sadness that runs through me when I read something like "we will be able to colonize other solar systems within 1000 years"

I'd call it pride. Sci-Fi has made our own solar system seem small. We live in a pretty big neighborhood, and as a result, I think we won't be bored with Sol's little sattelites for quite a while.



I mean I am sad because I won't be around to see it. But then I guess those guys will probably be sad they won't be around to see a type 3 civ.

While technological advances have increased exponentially between say 2000 years ago and now, life span increase really haven't (maybe only double if you are being optimistic).
 
I can't concern myself with this. I don't know what I am doing this weekend. I sure as hell don't care what will happen in 5 billion years. Anyhow perhaps a good supernova will finally bring out some peace and quiet in the middle east.
 
Yeah.. i like all your facts.. i will have to agree with So about his ideas.. and what do you think about the crap that some people say NASA faked going to the moon just to get money from the government for research... i think thats crap.. right?

i mean 1) you can pay to send you to the moon yourself
2) a dude has allready bought 96% of the moon.. i think tom cruise bought a small precent of it too.

right?
 
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