How to win the war on terror

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: guru

You can't compare western democratic nations with dictatorships in the middle east. The poorest nations in the west is about as wealthy as the riches nations in the Middle east. And in the middle east there is a huge difference in wealth between the people. This makes the average person extremely poor by western standards. And it is much harder to make a living out of crime since there isn't that much wealth and valuables to steal. And don't forget that the punishments are much harder. Torture and dismembering is not that unusual.

How is this relevant? I'm sure that if you go back hundreds and thousands of years you'll find simialr cases.

In Pakistan for example most children have only two choices, work or go to terrorist school since most families can't afford an education for their children.

Ah, so somebody has to fund those religious schools -- money comes into play; besides, what do those kids learn? to memorize the Koran? It would be the same things if they went out and worked.

I studied some political science and most professors in political science are agreeing that a certain wealth is essential to create a stable and democratic nation. And most nations in the middle east have plenty of people below that line.

I think a certain level of intelligence is necessary, rather than wealth; after all, democracy is the rule of the people, and if people are stupid..... speaking of stupid, memorizing the Koran doesn't make you any smarter, so the usefuleness of those religious schools is neglible; they merely allow those who run them to extends their influence over the children and increase their power.

When people are under oppression or in poverty they will use extreme actions to try and solve the situation. Many also seek to religion to ease their mind. This combination is what has created a large part of the situation in the Middle East.

This is what happened in Iran during between 1953 and 1979.

I appreciate the history, but as I've said in the past: children aren't born with knowledge of all that transpired 100 years ago, they have to be told -- and in Iran they do much more than that: they feed them hatered, as can be seen on the recordings at MemriTV.

After all, the US government blocked two very interesting tapes from Bin Laden, sent to western media shortly after 9/11... If you are interested I can tell you what those tapes said. I can give you a hint: It's something the US government didn't want you to hear.

So, what are these tapes? The way you describe it -- and the fact that you don't include actual info -- makes it sound like a conspiracy bit, just like the assertion that no Jew showed up to work on 9/11.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Hatred is preached in their teachings. Until that changes their living conditions are irrelevant to peace.

No, I disagree. The real problem with Islam is that the 75% majority are not denouncing the 25% minority who are extremists and hijacking the religion.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Have you ever noticed that Terrorists tend to interest themselves with folks who somehow impede their interests..
Not heard of many events in Iceland or Greenland from folks of ME heritage, for instance.

So the easy way to win this terror issue is not to be on their list... let them sort out their issues and deal with who ever is left.

At some point ya gotta calculate the cost of winning versus the prize.. I personally don't see a prize worth one US life let alone thousands.. and sure folks will die there.. not the same ones but maybe less in total... That is how you win.. You let them win their own battles first... Then after that look see if there is a reason to stick our nose in there and just how much will get chopped off if we leave it there.

There were a lot of people in the 1930's who had the same ideas and beleifs about Europe and the Far East.

Now someone will say that the middle east is not like Germany and that they don't have the power or the ability to start world war like Hitler did, but in the early 1930's Hitler didn't have the army or the power to start a world war.

Additionally, with the push for nuclear weapons and the tendency for people on the midle east to export terror we would be making a huge mistake if we just left the Middle East.

Instead of waking up to find airplanes crashing into buildings we might wake up to find a mushroom cloud over New York city, is preventing that worth fighting for?

 

[ProfJohn]

Thoughts on the people of Iran.

A large part of the pople of Iran actually like America as a country. It is their leadership that is the cause of the problem. While they pretend to be a democracy but the real power rests with the mullah who make the decisions.

A few years ago we weren't to far away from a populist lead revolution, the only way the government stopped it was to start attcking the student protesters, and locking up their leaders.

There are stories starting to appear that say the people of Lebanon are very unhappy with the leadership of Hezbollah for starting the recent fighting with Israel. The people think that the price payed by the country was not worth it, especially since the "people" really gained nothing, and all Hezbollah gained was the ability to say it stood up to Israel.
The result of this may be that the military wing of Hezbollah could lose some of its power.

Could this strategy work in Iran? Could sanctions and the like make the life of the normal people so bad that they decied that their leadership needs to be changed? What if we, or Israel, did a preemptive raid on Iranian nuke sites?

Perhaps if we can weaking the power of those on the top the great masses of people, who are really moderate, can rise up and take over the country.

 

[Kadarin]

Why should WE lift a finger to eliminate poverty in the region of the world that holds the single greatest concentration of wealth (oil)? Shouldn't THEY be responsible for that?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Why should WE lift a finger to eliminate poverty in the region of the world that holds the single greatest concentration of wealth (oil)? Shouldn't THEY be responsible for that?

You have a great point. But we don't have to give them money, we just have to help the put into place policies that ensure that all people share the wealth, instead of just a few.

Look at Sudia Arabia:
Poor people pissed off at being poor and not having much.
Rich people scared that poor people may take action against them.
Rich people fund schools that "teach" poor people that it is really the western man and and his religion and influence that is the cause of all their missery.
Poor people "rise" up against their "oppressor" western man through terrorism.
Of course the rich people are also the government who have another reason to keep the poor people "distracted" by turning their hate elsewhere.

The Suadi's encouraged these school for years and watched as their terror was exported, and the woke up one day and said "oh ******" they are attacking us now. Now they are stuck with their own terror problem.

One this is for sure, the whole middle east is really screwed up. Second thing for sure , once the oil is gone, in 50-100 years, the whole region is going to hell, unless they really change how they operate.

 

[shurato]

There's alot of poor people in Africa but they don't want to blow us up. Poverty is just a small factor but I don't think it's one of the main ones.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: shurato
There's alot of poor people in Africa but they don't want to blow us up. Poverty is just a small factor but I don't think it's one of the main ones.

People in africa don't have a religion that tells them it is ok to kill non-believers, plus they seem to be to busy killing each other right now.

Poverty is certainly a factor, as is religion.

Look at poverty in our own country. Places with high rates of poverty have higher rates of crime than the "rich" places, why is that? Because the rich people have a lot to lose if they commit crimes, while the poor people feel they have nothing to loss, or society owes them whatever it is they are stealing.

Sort of the same idea with terrorism. Terrorists have nothing to lose, their life already sucks, and they feel that the people they are killing "deserve" it cause that is what their religion tells them.

If take away their mass poverty I think the amount of terrorism will go down. Look at the Arabs who live in Israel, almost no terror comes from them... same religion, but no terror... why is that?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

People in africa don't have a religion that tells them it is ok to kill non-believers, plus they seem to be to busy killing each other right now.

What Religion do most Africans follow?

Text

 

[piasabird]

This is all about hate and teaching other people to hate. There are poor people everywhere including in the USA. People in the USA didnt try to blow up Saudia Arabia after finding out their money was behind blowing up the world trade center. Your argument is stupid and has no merit in Logic.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: piasabird
This is all about hate and teaching other people to hate. There are poor people everywhere including in the USA. People in the USA didnt try to blow up Saudia Arabia after finding out their money was behind blowing up the world trade center. Your argument is stupid and has no merit in Logic.

First of all, go to a third world country first before you compare the "poor" people in the US with all kinds of governmet assistance to the poor in the ME living in refugee camps for generations.

Second, yeah USA didn't blow up SA, they just blow up Afghanistan and Iraq, with Iraq didn't even have anything to do with WTC.

Before commenting on other people's argument, it's probably a good idea to get out of your little world and see what kinda life other people are living.