How to Stop the James Holmes of the world?

[Texashiker]

How to Stop the James Holmes of the world?

You can not stop them.

How do you stop people like david koresh?

How do you stop people like jim jones?

There are people out there that just want to watch the world burn. They will achieve their goal one way or another.

 

[soulcougher73]

We can never stop them, so just give up on the idea right now.

 

[tydas]

The gun debate needs to be framed around deaths by firearms in general and not by some isolated homicidal maniac...

2009 US Stats
Mortality
All homicides

Number of deaths: 16,799
Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.5

Firearm homicides

Number of deaths: 11,493
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7

 

[QuantumPion]

Unless you're willing to do away with any and all personal freedom as well as create a personal monitoring system like nothing the world has ever seen, you will never be able to really prevent / stop some insane crazy guy from killing other people.

OP, stop being such a wuss and realize that the nanny state government isn't going make the world perfectly safe.

A million times this. Even in Israel where they have active duty military carrying rifles around everywhere they still have terrorist bombings and shootings.

In the end, only YOU can be resonsible for your own safety. Not your parents, not the police, not the government, not even an "armed citizenry" whether it be CCW's or national guard...when a crazy guy is mowing people down you are the only one who can protect yourself. So what method will you chose to protect your own safety when your life is on the line and no one can help yo: Pepper spray? Or a gun?

 

[QuantumPion]

The gun debate needs to be framed around deaths by firearms in general and not by some isolated homicidal maniac...

2009 US Stats
Mortality
All homicides

Number of deaths: 16,799
Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.5

Firearm homicides

Number of deaths: 11,493
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7

How many of those firearm homicides are due to criminal activities, e.g. drug/gang wars?

 

[soulcougher73]

If you can accurately diagnose a DEFINITE imminent threat from SPECIFIC and agreed upon mental illness I'd have no problem with that being a temporary suspension of rights. However, there can be no confiscation until it's a completely KNOWN diagnosis, not merely a fear of such a situation. Until there is absolute PROOF of incapacitation rights must remain inviolate.

You must also implement a system for rights restoration that is simple, accessible, and not an economic or emotional burden. You must also ensure the safe return of all confiscated goods, in original condition.

When we say 'fix mental health care' what we mean is begin a program to alter cultural perceptions of mental health, and guarantee absolute access to mental health care for all citizens permanently. That means every American gets access to monthly or weekly counseling, we end social stigmas regarding mental illness, we fund mental health research (NOT pharmaceutical research but theory and treatment), we implement legal safety nets to protect those needing and receiving treatment from prejudiced treatment, etc.

It also requires addressing the causes of acute mental illness...that means changing our food and diets, alleviating stress, providing economic stability, etc. It is these factors which 'drive people crazy' in the sense of many of these incidents. It's not so much mental illness in the classical sense (long term psychosis, sociopathy, chronic dissociative disorder, etc), but temporary 'insanity' brought on by social and systemic failures. In other words, they're not mentally ill, they're angry, sad, and hopeless.

It's been known for about 60 years that the reason other nations have lower crime and violence rates are the cultural, social, and systemic factors that impact these areas, as well as things like national homogeneity, political efficacy, family unit cohesion, lower wealth concentration, and so on. There is no causal relation between crimes or suicides and firearms, as proved in numerous studies. In other words, if you're worried about events like we've been seeing then the first thing you HAVE to do is stop talking about guns completely.

This. Well said.

 

[tydas]

How many of those firearm homicides are due to criminal activities, e.g. drug/gang wars?

They don't shoot each other, they usually have dance offs...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I agree. Most reports I've read suggest he has a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. It's worth noting that episodes of violence for people living with schizophrenia are incredibly rare. My concern with this case is that he is clearly a very intelligent individual who is familiar with neuroscience and mental illness. That doesn't mean a person with schizophrenia could not successfully do what he did, but the elaborateness of the plan feels off to me. More or less I am taking his diagnosis with a hefty serving of salt. I'd be carefully perusing the personality disorders.

I agree with your points, however Holmes isn't someone who could have been stopped, and therefore the premise of the the thread is rather pointless.

Regardless of his mental health Holmes was an individual who had the knowledge to commit mass murder demonstrably separate from guns. What he chose was one way to go about his crime, but he demonstrated the ability to manufacture explosives. Having his education and the ability to access a variety of chemicals meant that there were in fact more deadly options.

Without a "Minority Report" technology it would have been impossible to prevent his actions. Holmes is a bad choice as an example of gun legislation preventing any serious obstacle to people like him.

 

[Texashiker]

The gun debate needs to be framed around deaths by firearms in general and not by some isolated homicidal maniac...

Lets compare how many gun deaths were committed by repeat offenders.

How many people committed a violent crime, only to be let loose back on the streets a few months later?

A few months ago there was a guy in a nearby city that killed his girlfriend. Come to find out the guy had a history of violence that spanned a decade or more. The guy had been in and out of prison several times.

If we truly want to stop crime, lets take the dangerous people off the streets.

 

[Genx87]

Which is irrelevant to the fact that he amassed a small arsenal, legally, with absolutely no background checks or screenings.

No background checks? he was subject to brady checks on both state and federal level when he purchased the AR15.

 

[Texashiker]

Which is irrelevant to the fact that he amassed a small arsenal, legally, with absolutely no background checks or screenings.

Have you ever bought a firearm?

 

[diesbudt]

Which is irrelevant to the fact that he amassed a small arsenal, legally, with absolutely no background checks or screenings.

Because if legally he didnt have access to firearms ment he wouldn't have gotten guns to do this. It would be physically impossible to go to an udnerground and purchase weapons. Never happens. Ever. All weapon salesmen are honest folks in shops that sell based on a government allowance of who can/cant have guns.

Am I right?

 

[diesbudt]

A million times this. Even in Israel where they have active duty military carrying rifles around everywhere they still have terrorist bombings and shootings.

In the end, only YOU can be resonsible for your own safety. Not your parents, not the police, not the government, not even an "armed citizenry" whether it be CCW's or national guard...when a crazy guy is mowing people down you are the only one who can protect yourself. So what method will you chose to protect your own safety when your life is on the line and no one can help yo: Pepper spray? Or a gun?

I personally use throwing shoes. Sadly I only have 2 ammo, so its a hit or miss thing ...: / haha

 

[Jmman]

Well, first of all, if you buy a gun at a business, you are going to get a background check. Secondly, I think this more has to do with human psychology, and not just of the shooter in this case. After it is all said and done, there were numerous people who were aware that he had mental issues, from his family, to his psychiatrist, to the school he was attending. What is unfortunate though is that no action was taken by any of them, even though they were aware that he was a possible danger. People in general need to get over their own uncomfortable feelings about reporting potential mental health issues of their friends, coworkers, or family. There also needs to be a better system in place so that a mental health professional can report this behavior in a manner that will immediately prevent the individual from purchasing firearms......

 

[xj0hnx]

The progressive vision of creating a perfect world where everyone is equal, everyone lives in harmony with each other as well as the earth, etc. is not inherently bad

Yes, it is. Humans are competitive individuals by nature, the human race will NEVER have across the board equality. Some people are good at one thing, others another, some excel at everything they try, some fail at everything they try, some are driven, some are lazy, some are sane, some are crazy, you can not legislate that away. The sooner people come to grips with the fact that we are animals, and deal with it the better.

 

[diesbudt]

Yes, it is. Humans are competitive individuals by nature, the human race will NEVER have across the board equality. Some people are good at one thing, others another, some excel at everything they try, some fail at everything they try, some are driven, some are lazy, some are sane, some are crazy, you can not legislate that away. The sooner people come to grips with the fact that we are animals, and deal with it the better.

Which is why world peace is a complete joke. It is fine being optimistic, as long as one can be realistic as well realizing such a thing is impossible.

 

[xj0hnx]

How many of those firearm homicides are due to criminal activities, e.g. drug/gang wars?

Most of them in one form or another.

 

[xj0hnx]

The gun debate needs to be framed around deaths by firearms in general and not by some isolated homicidal maniac...

2009 US Stats
Mortality
All homicides

Number of deaths: 16,799
Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.5

Firearm homicides

Number of deaths: 11,493
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7

And almost ten times that die every year from being fat, and twice that from automobiles.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Which is irrelevant to the fact that he amassed a small arsenal, legally, with absolutely no background checks or screenings.

If he legally purchased the guns then there was a background check and screenings. They have to call the purchase in and give your ID then get confirmation that there is nothing pending or you aren't blacklisted.

My father-in-law has a very common, generic name (think along the lines of Jack Smith or something equally lame.) He has a very hard time purchasing firearms because of his common last name - instead of a 15 minute wait while they call it in it usually takes a few days to confirm who he is and for it to come back clean.

So, there was a check/screening. It is federal law to purchase a gun legally and you are being dishonest by posting that there was no check at all.

And 4 weapons is not a small arsenal. I own 20-30...some of them are ridiculous. I have a .50 cal rifle that is accurate up to a mile away. I have a semi-auto shotgun with a 20-round drum magazine. I have an pistol that shoots .223 (AR-15 pistol.) Why? They are cool and fun to take out to the range.

4 guns is nothing. And the constitution didn't place a limit on how many guns one can own. Although I have heard from several people that if you purchase too many guns at once a red flag goes up and your purchases MAY be looked into a little bit more in depth.

 

[diesbudt]

And almost ten times that die every year from being fat, and twice that from automobiles.

Ban all foods above 400 calories per serving of 8oz and all cars.

I like this idea.

 

[Orignal Earl]

If anyone wants to experience something different
You all could come visit my world
Mi Casa Su Casa
Imagine a place, just a couple miles north of the border
Nobody carries a gun
People let their children play across several blocks without fear
Burka clad women walking with their little girls dressed in shorts, Hindus, Jews, Christians all walking up and down the street, smiling, saying hello to each other
Church bells ring in the noon hour

Ya it's good to be free

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

If anyone wants to experience something different
You all could come visit my world
Mi Casa Su Casa
Imagine a place, just a couple miles north of the border
Nobody carries a gun
People let their children play across several blocks without fear
Burka clad women walking with their little girls dressed in shorts, Hindus, Jews, Christians all walking up and down the street, smiling, saying hello to each other
Church bells ring in the noon hour

Ya it's good to be free

I'm not sure what you think America is like. I'm assuming you live in Canada? Sure, there are some very large cities and areas where it isn't safe to play on the street in America. These places make the news.

All the things you describe pertain to my neighborhood. I let the kids go outside and play and check on them on occasion, etc. Maybe once your little country grows as large as ours you will have some of the same issues. We have nearly ten times as many citizens as you do. It isn't really comparing apples to apples, now is it? Plus, you have a relatively good neighbor. Let's put Mexico on the Canadian border and see how your simplistic views hold up.

Guns aren't the issue. Half of all American households own at least one gun. If guns were the issue there would be a lot more violence.

 

[xj0hnx]

If anyone wants to experience something different
You all could come visit my world
Mi Casa Su Casa
Imagine a place, just a couple miles north of the border
Nobody carries a gun
People let their children play across several blocks without fear
Burka clad women walking with their little girls dressed in shorts, Hindus, Jews, Christians all walking up and down the street, smiling, saying hello to each other
Church bells ring in the noon hour

Ya it's good to be free

Do you really think that most of America isn't just like that? There's over 300 million people in our country, the problem is that people only notice the bad that gets reported in the news, but the VAST majority of people, and places are absolutely peaceful, and fine to be in.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Do you really think that most of America isn't just like that? There's over 300 million people in our country, the problem is that people only notice the bad that gets reported in the news, but the VAST majority of people, and places are absolutely peaceful, and fine to be in.

I'm talking to the posters here.
They obviously don't live in that part of America

I was just offering a sort of vacation from the horror they live in

 

[PrinceofWands]

I'm talking to the posters here.
They obviously don't live in that part of America

I was just offering a sort of vacation from the horror they live in

No horror here, and if any crept up I'd be equipped to deal with it.