How to spot a baby conservative

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
link

Remember the whiny, insecure kid in nursery school, the one who always thought everyone was out to get him, and was always running to the teacher with complaints? Chances are he grew up to be a conservative.

At least, he did if he was one of 95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

The study from the Journal of Research Into Personality isn't going to make the UC Berkeley professor who published it any friends on the right. Similar conclusions a few years ago from another academic saw him excoriated on right-wing blogs, and even led to a Congressional investigation into his research funding.

But the new results are worth a look. In the 1960s Jack Block and his wife and fellow professor Jeanne Block (now deceased) began tracking more than 100 nursery school kids as part of a general study of personality. The kids' personalities were rated at the time by teachers and assistants who had known them for months. There's no reason to think political bias skewed the ratings ? the investigators were not looking at political orientation back then. Even if they had been, it's unlikely that 3- and 4-year-olds would have had much idea about their political leanings.

A few decades later, Block followed up with more surveys, looking again at personality, and this time at politics, too. The whiny kids tended to grow up conservative, and turned into rigid young adults who hewed closely to traditional gender roles and were uncomfortable with ambiguity.

The confident kids turned out liberal and were still hanging loose, turning into bright, non-conforming adults with wide interests. The girls were still outgoing, but the young men tended to turn a little introspective.

Block admits in his paper that liberal Berkeley is not representative of the whole country. But within his sample, he says, the results hold. He reasons that insecure kids look for the reassurance provided by tradition and authority, and find it in conservative politics. The more confident kids are eager to explore alternatives to the way things are, and find liberal politics more congenial.

In a society that values self-confidence and out-goingness, it's a mostly flattering picture for liberals. It also runs contrary to the American stereotype of wimpy liberals and strong conservatives.

Of course, if you're studying the psychology of politics, you shouldn't be surprised to get a political reaction. Similar work by John T. Jost of Stanford and colleagues in 2003 drew a political backlash. The researchers reviewed 44 years worth of studies into the psychology of conservatism, and concluded that people who are dogmatic, fearful, intolerant of ambiguity and uncertainty, and who crave order and structure are more likely to gravitate to conservatism. Critics branded it the "conservatives are crazy" study and accused the authors of a political bias.

Jost welcomed the new study, saying it lends support to his conclusions. But Jeff Greenberg, a social psychologist at the University of Arizona who was critical of Jost's study, was less impressed.

`I found (the Jack Block study) to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best'

Jeff Greenberg

University of Arizona

"I found it to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best," he said of the Block study. He thinks insecure, defensive, rigid people can as easily gravitate to left-wing ideologies as right-wing ones. He suspects that in Communist China, those kinds of people would likely become fervid party members.

The results do raise some obvious questions. Are nursery school teachers in the conservative heartland cursed with classes filled with little proto-conservative whiners?

Or does an insecure little boy raised in Idaho or Alberta surrounded by conservatives turn instead to liberalism?

Or do the whiny kids grow up conservative along with the majority of their more confident peers, while only the kids with poor impulse control turn liberal?

Part of the answer is that personality is not the only factor that determines political leanings. For instance, there was a .27 correlation between being self-reliant in nursery school and being a liberal as an adult. Another way of saying it is that self-reliance predicts statistically about 7 per cent of the variance between kids who became liberal and those who became conservative. (If every self-reliant kid became a liberal and none became conservatives, it would predict 100 per cent of the variance). Seven per cent is fairly strong for social science, but it still leaves an awful lot of room for other influences, such as friends, family, education, personal experience and plain old intellect.

For conservatives whose feelings are still hurt, there is a more flattering way for them to look at the results. Even if they really did tend to be insecure complainers as kids, they might simply have recognized that the world is a scary, unfair place.

Their grown-up conclusion that the safest thing is to stick to tradition could well be the right one. As for their "rigidity," maybe that's just moral certainty.

The grown-up liberal men, on the other hand, with their introspection and recognition of complexity in the world, could be seen as self-indulgent and ineffectual.

Whether anyone's feelings are hurt or not, the work suggests that personality and emotions play a bigger role in our political leanings than we think. All of us, liberal or conservative, feel as though we've reached our political opinions by carefully weighing the evidence and exercising our best judgment. But it could be that all of that careful reasoning is just after-the-fact self-justification. What if personality forms our political outlook, with reason coming along behind, rationalizing after the fact?

It could be that whom we vote for has less to do with our judgments about tax policy or free trade or health care, and more with the personalities we've been stuck with since we were kids.




Partisan hackery or a insight into our society? the conservatives here have shown time and time again to be the ones to go to mods to complain of bias and how the society and media is "out to get them" and try to project themselves as underdogs even though their party dominates politics.

Hmmm...

---------------------------------------------------------------
the conservatives here have shown time and time again to be the ones to go to mods to complain of bias

We get whiners from both sides of the house.
Both of our right and left hands get sore from slapping them back into place.

If you wish to troll, do so off my watch.


Political (No hijacking) Mod
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Partisan hackery or a insight into our society? the conservatives here have shown time and time again to be the ones to go to mods to complain of bias and how the society and media is "out to get them" and try to project themselves as underdogs even though their party dominates politics.
for the record, i've never contacted the mods to report anyone. However, i was banned after Conjur complained to them once; and then there have been no less than 5 other occasions when the other side has reported me. Alas, it was proven that my posts were not of the name-calling variety we see around here so often from the other side, so no bannings ensued... so wait, who was it again that always runs to the mods? oh ya...

And trust me, I definately dont see my side as the "underdogs." more like "alpha dogs"...

<snip>...the UC Berkeley professor who published it...
case closed.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
<snip>...the UC Berkeley professor who published it...

case closed.



Sorry, the bathroom wall of the community college in bumfvck, redstate USA was pretty empty today (or drudge put em all up), can't please em all. ;)
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
I think that there's also a genetic factor underlying political leanings. I'd love to get a study done on that.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,080
5,453
136
Originally posted by: palehorse74
<snip>...the UC Berkeley professor who published it...

case closed.

Yea, you don't want nuttin from them edjumacated folks what are teachers at a univerisity. I bet if this was bob jones univerisity you'd have stained your sheets.
 

slatr

Senior member
May 28, 2001
957
2
81
95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

*************
A study from Berkeley with a bias towards liberalism, shocking!

I had a great history professor from Berkeley, one of the best in my opinion...

However, I stopped reading when I saw where the study was performed. No slant or bias, yeah right! The kids were probably beaten by their parents if they exihibited any conservative viewpoints.



 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
real answer: I dont buy into much psycho-bable, so it's my belief that most political philosophies are developed based on the types of specific gripes each individual has with their governments.

ie:

if you are poor, and have always been poor, then "opportunity" and "programs for assistance" are your thing. = liberal parties.

if you see the military as the defacto standard of excellence while you grow up, believe in a disciplined life, strict respect for authority, etc; then the parties who most support them are your thing. = conservative parties.

if you feel that drugs should be legalized, or that the most important thing in the world is a clean environment, then the parties who stand for those will be your thing. = green parties.

etc etc...

I doubt that any of it really comes down to "whiny vs. happy," because everyone has a gripe with something... it just all depends on what your gripes are!

the real question is: Who's gripes are more important?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: slatr
95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

*************
A study from Berkeley with a bias towards liberalism, shocking!

I had a great history professor from Berkeley, one of the best in my opinion...

However, I stopped reading when I saw where the study was performed. No slant or bias, yeah right! The kids were probably beaten by their parents if they exihibited any conservative viewpoints.

I am pretty sure you have your stereotypes wrong, liberals are supposed to never beat their children becasue they coddle them like they want to be by the vast liberal nanny state.

Get up to date on your talking points, oreilly is gonna give you the falafel treatment for that one after class.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
Originally posted by: palehorse74
<snip>...the UC Berkeley professor who published it...

case closed.

Yea, you don't want nuttin from them edjumacated folks what are teachers at a univerisity. I bet if this was bob jones univerisity you'd have stained your sheets.

I'm not christian. nice try.

but it is true, there is no such thing as a non-partisan professor at UC Berkeley. (Or Bob Jones U for that matter!) I dont have much respect for either insitution.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
real answer: I dont buy into much psycho-bable, so it's my belief that most political philosophies are developed based on the types of specific gripes each individual has with their governments.

ie:

if you are poor, and have always been poor, then "opportunity" and "programs for assistance" are your thing. = liberal parties.

if you see the military as the defacto standard of excellence while you grow up, believe in a disciplined life, strict respect for authority, etc; then the parties who most support them the most are your thing. = conservative parties.

if you feel that drugs should be legalized, then the parties who stand for that will be your thing. = green parties.

etc etc...

I doubt that any of it really comes down to "whiny vs. happy," because everyone has a gripe with something... it just all depends on what your gripes are!

the real question is: Who's gripes are more important?



hmm, so what about servicemembers who join for the free handout college money who happen to smoke some pot when they go to college? :laugh:

The military is the biggest tax sucking welfare handout out there is for the poor, oops
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Partisan hackery or a insight into our society? the conservatives here have shown time and time again to be the ones to go to mods to complain of bias and how the society and media is "out to get them" and try to project themselves as underdogs even though their party dominates politics.
for the record, i've never contacted the mods to report anyone. However, i was banned after Conjur complained to them once; and then there have been no less than 5 other occasions when the other side has reported me. Alas, it was proven that my posts were not of the name-calling variety we see around here so often from the other side, so no bannings ensued... so wait, who was it again that always runs to the mods? oh ya...

And trust me, I definately dont see my side as the "underdogs." more like "alpha dogs"...

<snip>...the UC Berkeley professor who published it...
case closed.
HA!

Speaking of whiny little baby conservatives!!

:laugh:

This is not the first study to show this, either. Interesting.
 

slatr

Senior member
May 28, 2001
957
2
81
The military is the biggest tax sucking welfare handout out there is for the poor, oops

**********
How can you go to sleep at night and have a clear conscience by saying someone who may die for this country is on welfare?

 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: palehorse74
real answer: I dont buy into much psycho-bable, so it's my belief that most political philosophies are developed based on the types of specific gripes each individual has with their governments.

ie:

if you are poor, and have always been poor, then "opportunity" and "programs for assistance" are your thing. = liberal parties.

if you see the military as the defacto standard of excellence while you grow up, believe in a disciplined life, strict respect for authority, etc; then the parties who most support them the most are your thing. = conservative parties.

if you feel that drugs should be legalized, then the parties who stand for that will be your thing. = green parties.

etc etc...

I doubt that any of it really comes down to "whiny vs. happy," because everyone has a gripe with something... it just all depends on what your gripes are!

the real question is: Who's gripes are more important?

hmm, so what about servicemembers who join for the free handout college money who happen to smoke some pot when they go to college? :laugh:

first, smoking pot in college is much different than doing so at the ages of 30, 40, or older.

second, I would imagine, logically, that the poor kid who enjoyed both at some point would be stuck between supporting one party or another...

I left out one qualifier in my response above... I believe that it's also the gripe that someone has at a certain time that leans them toward one party of thought or another.

so perhaps the kid would have been conservative when he first joined, but later, after becoming a drugged out loser, he would begin leaning toward those parties supporting his habits... :p

I believe the most educated or intelligent people are those who do not align themselves with any particular party for their entire lifetime.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: slatr
The military is the biggest tax sucking welfare handout out there is for the poor, oops

**********
How can you go to sleep at night and have a clear conscience by saying someone who may die for this country is on welfare?

Well, it is in reality, What else would you call it but a big tax subsidized socialized work program?

Your the one giving the word "welfare" a negative light, maybe you should rethink your narrow view then.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: slatr
The military is the biggest tax sucking welfare handout out there is for the poor, oops

**********
How can you go to sleep at night and have a clear conscience by saying someone who may die for this country is on welfare?
Well, it is in reality, What else would you call it but a big tax subsidized socialized work program?
Well, it's welfare for those willing to be good citizens. And, of course, the military preys upon the poor. How many recruiting stations are setup in the rich parts of town?
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
link
You know, there is a lab in our building, run by a Dr. Susan Smith, who's been making quite important headway in the field of cell mortality (read: basic science of cancer) and in the past couple of years has published in Science, Cell, Molecular Cell, Genes & Development... and other of the top journals. And yet this year, her NIH funding got seriously cut... for no particular reason, and in spite of the high volume of good science that she's published. Bob Schneider, who runs one of the biggest labs here, has gotten his funding cut too... and he has a anti-cancer drug in clinical trials!

So reading this piece of sh!t study makes me really happy to know that the available grant money is being put to good use. :roll:
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: slatr
The military is the biggest tax sucking welfare handout out there is for the poor, oops

**********
How can you go to sleep at night and have a clear conscience by saying someone who may die for this country is on welfare?

Well, it is in reality, What else would you call it but a big tax subsidized socialized work program?

Your the one giving the word "welfare" a negative light, maybe you should rethink your narrow view then.

Ugh...can't believe I'm wading into P&N.

I wouldn't call the military a welfare program. Members of the armed services are being compensated for the services they perform.

To me, welfare = free handout.
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
real answer: I dont buy into much psycho-bable, so it's my belief that most political philosophies are developed based on the types of specific gripes each individual has with their governments.

ie:

if you are poor, and have always been poor, then "opportunity" and "programs for assistance" are your thing. = liberal parties.

if you see the military as the defacto standard of excellence while you grow up, believe in a disciplined life, strict respect for authority, etc; then the parties who most support them are your thing. = conservative parties.

if you feel that drugs should be legalized, or that the most important thing in the world is a clean environment, then the parties who stand for those will be your thing. = green parties.

etc etc...

I doubt that any of it really comes down to "whiny vs. happy," because everyone has a gripe with something... it just all depends on what your gripes are!

the real question is: Who's gripes are more important?

Wow. How... empirical.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: slatr
The military is the biggest tax sucking welfare handout out there is for the poor, oops

**********
How can you go to sleep at night and have a clear conscience by saying someone who may die for this country is on welfare?
Well, it is in reality, What else would you call it but a big tax subsidized socialized work program?
Well, it's welfare for those willing to be good citizens. And, of course, the military preys upon the poor. How many recruiting stations are setup in the rich parts of town?

I dont know since I live near Washington DC. We have recruiting offices every 10 feet or so, in every part of of the city and suburbs...

I've served with both the rich and the poor; with most of the servicemen and women I've served with coming from middle-income families.

That said, I try not to take much offense to anything on the internet, but you guys describing the military as a form of welfare is beyond insulting. Unlike those who really are on welfare, we fvcking work hard for our money! so please dont ever fvcking forget that! thanks...
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: slatr
95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

*************
A study from Berkeley with a bias towards liberalism, shocking!

I had a great history professor from Berkeley, one of the best in my opinion...

However, I stopped reading when I saw where the study was performed. No slant or bias, yeah right! The kids were probably beaten by their parents if they exihibited any conservative viewpoints.

I am pretty sure you have your stereotypes wrong, liberals are supposed to never beat their children becasue they coddle them like they want to be by the vast liberal nanny state.

Get up to date on your talking points, oreilly is gonna give you the falafel treatment for that one after class.

Wow, come down here to Memphis, I'll show you some Democrats who treat their children like utter ******.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: slatr
95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

*************
A study from Berkeley with a bias towards liberalism, shocking!

I had a great history professor from Berkeley, one of the best in my opinion...

However, I stopped reading when I saw where the study was performed. No slant or bias, yeah right! The kids were probably beaten by their parents if they exihibited any conservative viewpoints.

I am pretty sure you have your stereotypes wrong, liberals are supposed to never beat their children becasue they coddle them like they want to be by the vast liberal nanny state.

Get up to date on your talking points, oreilly is gonna give you the falafel treatment for that one after class.

Wow, come down here to Memphis, I'll show you some Democrats who treat their children like utter ******.


Child abuse and negletful parents are usually a reflection of upbringing or drug abuse, we can back and forth all day on who lives in the trailers more and smokes meth or who lives in mc mansions and has a abusive alcoholic father, that is not a partisan issue imo and not debateworthy focusing on party lines.

I was more joking about the stereotype of corporal punishment .
 

slatr

Senior member
May 28, 2001
957
2
81
Well, it is in reality, What else would you call it but a big tax subsidized socialized work program?

Your the one giving the word "welfare" a negative light, maybe you should rethink your narrow view then.
**************

Work program? It was created for and serves to maintain our national defense. Whether our military is active or serves as a deterrent merely by its presence, it is not a work program. It is a necessity.

What points can you make that would define it as subsidized work?


 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Originally posted by: palehorse74
And trust me, I definately dont see my side as the "underdogs." more like "alpha dogs"...

<snip>...the UC Berkeley professor who published it...
case closed.

Come on then, put up some pics to prove you are what you say you are. A couple of you in civies and then a couple of you in Iraq
Your not going to tell me your really worried about some whiny Liberal off this computer board is going to track you down and harm you
Those professors even put their names up for everyone to view
It really would help your case in so many ways if you could overcome the doubt so many people have, most mil types here have posted pics
Just bump up the post your pic thread