How to Shrink My PC

[Lil Frier]

I've been having some odd problems with drives on my computer lately. Basically, 4 drives (2 SSD, 2 HDD, over multiple installs of Windows), data just seems to go missing every time.

I've been waiting for Zen and Kaby Lake to duke it out, like most. That would end my PC's use as a media device, where I've had it hooked up to my TV for watching stuff, as I get it moved to dual monitors, a proper desk, and start PC gaming again. I would keep the Haswell CPU and get smaller parts to serve in an HTPC-like manner. If I have another problem with data loss after this nuclear repair, I'm blaming something other than a drive, and the motherboard is the first in line.

If I blame the board, my solution is to make that smaller build sooner than I planned. However, I've never gotten a great idea of micro-ATX vs. mini-ITX, and which is the standard more commonly used for smaller builds. This means a bigger overhaul than just "get a new board," if I want to stick with my current setup and fix a bad board (if that's even the problem). I'll have to get a PSU, case, and possibly a video card. Basically, I need some help grasping which standard to pick and parts info.

Mini-ITX seems like the way to go, but I'm not sure what to expect. When going from mid-ATX to mini-ITX, should I expect a change in manufacturer options? Do the competitors change at mini-ITX levels, or does quality among known OEMs? Who would I look to as a manufacturer for PSUs, still Corsair, Seasonic, and the like? Is it still safe to trust ASUS for board (I'm on ASRock now, was on ASUS previously)? Who makes good mini-ITX cases (assuming I pick that over micro-ATX)?

Additionally, what else should I expect? If I want a dGPU, which models are meant for these builds in the lower end, what card size should I be looking at? What can I expect for available drive bays (I assume 3.5" drives are still supported)? Any major nuances or sacrifices by shrinking a build down?

 

[sinisterDei]

I need a bit more information... what do you mean that "data just seems to go missing every time" ?

Like, a folder you think you have is suddenly gone? Or a movie/media fila/installed game you think you have is missing or no longer functional?

Or are we talking data corruption to the point where Windows will no longer boot, or something along those lines.

Data doesn't just "go missing" - you've either got a source of corruption in hardware, a source of corruption in software (malware), or a source of corruption or user error between the keyboard and the chair (you). It's basically gotta be one of those three, or a derivative of one of those three.

Now then, on the subject of shrinking your PC- that's an admirable goal in my opinion.

The main differences, in my mind, between ITX and MicroATX is that ITX has a single PCI-Express slot and 2 DIMMs, where mATX can have more than one PCI-E slot (my current mATX board has 3) and can still have 4 DIMMs on mATX. Also, more vendors tend to integrate WiFi on ITX systems, but that's really just a function of what motherboard you choose.

When looking at cases, ITX cases are generally divided into two categories - for gaming, or for NAS/server work. Make sure you pick up the gaming one, otherwise you won't have room for a dual-slot GPU. The server ones can have a ton of hard drive slots - sometimes way more than even a normal tower case - the DS380 I'm looking at you. Also, lots of ITX cases will run with the SFX form factor for their PSU, rather than ATX.

mATX cases aren't typically so different than their full ATX counterparts, and I'd offer that the market for dedicated mATX cases (as in, those that cannot also accept full ATX) is relatively small.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd offer that the market for dedicated mATX cases (as in, those that cannot also accept full ATX) is relatively small.

Note that many of those, are "slim" cases, with a (sometimes proprietary) PSU integrated, which require low-profile video cards. Not an ideal solution, except perhaps for a HTPC that also requires a full-size optical and 3.5" HDD.

Also, if the build is for HTPC, rather than gaming, consider a purpose-built mini-PC, like a Brix or NUC or similar. (I'm using an ASRock DeskMini right now. It's one of the few mini-PCs that takes desktop CPUs.) Note that the purpose-built mini-PCs don't accommodate a dGPU, unless you get one with a TB3 port, and an external GPU chassis (pricey!).

 

[Lil Frier]

I need a bit more information... what do you mean that "data just seems to go missing every time" ?

Like, a folder you think you have is suddenly gone? Or a movie/media fila/installed game you think you have is missing or no longer functional?

Or are we talking data corruption to the point where Windows will no longer boot, or something along those lines.

Data doesn't just "go missing" - you've either got a source of corruption in hardware, a source of corruption in software (malware), or a source of corruption or user error between the keyboard and the chair (you). It's basically gotta be one of those three, or a derivative of one of those three.

Now then, on the subject of shrinking your PC- that's an admirable goal in my opinion.

The main differences, in my mind, between ITX and MicroATX is that ITX has a single PCI-Express slot and 2 DIMMs, where mATX can have more than one PCI-E slot (my current mATX board has 3) and can still have 4 DIMMs on mATX. Also, more vendors tend to integrate WiFi on ITX systems, but that's really just a function of what motherboard you choose.

When looking at cases, ITX cases are generally divided into two categories - for gaming, or for NAS/server work. Make sure you pick up the gaming one, otherwise you won't have room for a dual-slot GPU. The server ones can have a ton of hard drive slots - sometimes way more than even a normal tower case - the DS380 I'm looking at you. Also, lots of ITX cases will run with the SFX form factor for their PSU, rather than ATX.

mATX cases aren't typically so different than their full ATX counterparts, and I'd offer that the market for dedicated mATX cases (as in, those that cannot also accept full ATX) is relatively small.

Well, it's kind of hard to explain in full. This might get lengthy, but we'll go drive-by-drive:

Kingston SSD: One day, it just wouldn't boot. Started up with a flashing cursor, like it had no OS. As a solution, I grabbed my (then-fresh) WD Blue drive and threw the OS on it. After that, I plugged in the SSD as a mass storage drive. I could see everything there, including the OS files. Given the SSD was known to have some controller issues, I figured it was the beginning of the end, and decided I'd get a new SSD for my birthday.

Samsung SSD: This replaced the Kingston. After maybe 4-5 months, see above. The PC acted like the OS didn't exist. I sent the drive back to Samsung for repair, just in case. It came back with a firmware update and no reported problems. In the meantime, I decided to format the Kingston, install the OS on it, and give it a try short-term. It worked just fine, and still does (though I've since reinstalled W10 on the Samsung and have it running fine as well). Two SSDs, same problem that seems to show no issue with either drive.

WD Blue HDD: This is where the fun started, and continues to exist, and it's a story with holes (simply because I wasn't there when things went awry). After setting up the Kingston (While the Samsung was out for repair), I hooked the WD back up as a storage device. However, as a lazy American, I didn't bother with a format (didn't have the space for a proper backup). This meant I left Windows on there, not that it affected anything when it wasn't the boot drive. However, I got home a week or so back, and it was a mess. The PC had restarted, IDK when. Somehow, the Kingston got lost by the BIOS, and decided to boot to the Blue drive. This encountered some problem, as there was some fatal, "explorer.exe" error greeting me when I got home (I think 12/23 night). Restarted the PC, got the Kingston back up as the boot drive. Now, the Blue's just showing as "NTFS" in the File Explorer, with 0 bytes used and 0 bytes available. If I try to use it, I just get "E:\ is not accessible. Access is denied." Searching comes up with the theory of a partition screwup. I used WD's Data Lifeguard, running multiple tests. No bad sectors, all tests passed perfectly (also tried SeaTools at another AT user's suggestion). After trying about 4 different partition repair/recover programs. I finally got one that worked. I found the 600-ish GB of media files I was trying to save on the Blue HDD. In that program, I got 4 partitions. Two were very small, seemingly recovery/system things from Windows. The third was about 2 TB in size (the Blue's a 3TB drive), which seemed to be where the OS was installed. Lastly, there's a fourth partition. It's called "Unallocated space." While the first 3 are NTFS, there's no file system attached to this thing. Sure enough, this is where I found my missing data. I have since extracted that stuff, and am reinstalling Data Lifeguard to wipe that drive and see if it can be saved.

WD Black HDD: I've had this drive since the original build in 2009 (got the Kingston around 2014, the WD Blue at Christmas in 2015, and the Samsung in May 2016). I got the Blue simply because I was getting to, and over, the 640 GB Black's limits. I used it to throw my video files on from the Blue recovery (music went to the Samsung SSD, as the video files were taking too much space). I also grabbed my important files (mostly school projects) from the Kingston SSD and put them in a backup folder on this drive. So, the Black's got a "restore videos" folder with the files from the Blue, and a "restore documents" from the Kingston. I watched Red Dwarf off the recovery from the Blue just fine Friday night. Last night, I go to do it again. It says the link is broken. I ran a repair on the Black, and it put the "restore videos" folder back, no problem. Then, it dumped the "restore documents" one, and I can't find it again (I imagine I could fish it out with the partition recovery program, but the files are still on the Kingston, so fuck reliving that headache I spent 5 days trying to rectify).

That pretty much covers it--two SSDs randomly unable to boot. A HDD with an unmarked partition with 750 GB of data I spent almost a week unable to access on a drive I can't even format without low-level access tools. Folders and partitions disappearing at random. Pinpointing the cause is really hard because it's happened on multiple drives with new and old Windows installs, and it's not been in the same, consistent way. It sounds like malware to me, but IDK where from, and I've had too many varied problems to figure out what the cause would be. That's why I've said I intend to nuke all 4 drives, start fresh, back up data, and see what happens. Some of the stuff can't just be tossed (school/work projects, music I can't get anywhere any longer), so hopefully the source isn't malware hidden in those files. I'm going to also keep the bulk of my video files, we'll see what happens. If it all fails again, MAYBE I try just dumping all data and starting fresh, but I'm not of the belief this is a malware matter rooted in data files acquired years ago.

Regarding the recommendations:

So mini-ITX means no carrying over an ATX PSU? That kind of sucks, but isn't unexpected at all. I'm totally unsure how I want to approach it. My plan has been to go with a small PC as a secondary device in a few months, after Zen's out. It was to be just a small box with the Haswell chip at the core, with no video card. It would JUST play video and music files, nothing else, so getting a video card would be senseless. If I wanted to play games, that's what the new build (likely with Zen and Vega) is for!

If I blame the board, it leaves me two routes: get a new board for my current PC, or accelerate the shrink of the Haswell system. The former means spending probably $75 on a board I'll toss aside in a few months. The latter means spending probably $125 on a video card that I will likely never need again in a few months (though it would be an upgrade on my current one, since it's a 2009 HD 5850). It also means that the short-term problem gets a long-term fix sooner, but forced me into buying a case, board, and PSU early.

The slot restrictions shouldn't matter. I only use 2 8GB RAM sticks, and I don't do a dual-GPU setup. However, the question I run into is, which video cards and PSUs am I to look at? The 5850 was known as a pretty long card, so I can't imagine I could fit it into a mini-ITX case (plus, note that the 5850 has MASSIVELY GREATER idle and load power draws than even an RX 480, so it needs to go, haha). That then leaves me wondering which cards I can fit into it. Maybe PC Part Picker can answer a lot of this for me with its compatibility filter?

Note that many of those, are "slim" cases, with a (sometimes proprietary) PSU integrated, which require low-profile video cards. Not an ideal solution, except perhaps for a HTPC that also requires a full-size optical and 3.5" HDD.

Also, if the build is for HTPC, rather than gaming, consider a purpose-built mini-PC, like a Brix or NUC or similar. (I'm using an ASRock DeskMini right now. It's one of the few mini-PCs that takes desktop CPUs.) Note that the purpose-built mini-PCs don't accommodate a dGPU, unless you get one with a TB3 port, and an external GPU chassis (pricey!).

That really isn't a good solution. I'm not going into the market of buying 2 PCs. This is about repurposing a set of hardware I already own--particularly the CPU, RAM, SSD, and HDD I have in my current build (I have 2 SSDs and 2 HDDs, so one of each would go to the smaller build). That, and I can get the OS free through my school, so we're talking about a build that just required a case and board, unless I need a new PSU. The GPU would be a lower-end, optional thing to carry me to the new build, so I can keep playing Rocket League and start playing Civ V again (though they might be passably doable on the HD 4600 GPU). I'd sooner get a device to cast my PC to my TV for media consumption than buy a second TV, I'd just like to not have my current PC just get tossed when it has some perfectly fine stuff inside.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm, well, at the very least, have you ever done "extensive" testing of the RAM in question, and/or stress-testing the PSU? Those could explain your corruption issues.

I would be very suspect of your current PSU.

Before going any further with your plans to re-build and re-use parts, I would do some testing on your current build.

That's a lot of data-corruption, on a wide range of devices. So much so, that's I'm pretty sure that it's malware (a software issue), or PSU or RAM (hardware issue).

Was there ever any overclocking involved? CPU or RAM?

Edit: Oh yeah, you might want to consider getting a battery-backup unit. Consumer SSD don't like power glitches, it can really screw them up.

 

[sinisterDei]

Regarding your winding tale of corrupted data, I would indeed primarily suspect the motherboard. Both the PSU and memory are secondary possibilities, but I think if they were the problem that issues would happen more often than it sounds like you're describing.

Some ITX cases can take a full sized ATX PSU, it just depends on the model. And some of them can take the standard ATX size, but have length restrictions that prevent use of some of the physically larger PSUs that exceed the normal ATX size.

If you just want a system for playing music and video, even the smallest Haswell system would be overkill since a Roku would be just fine and plays super well with PLEX.

Now then, there's a lot going on in this thread and you've obviously got some decisions to make. I'm of the opinion, based on what I've read, that Zen is going to be a return to competitiveness for AMD; what I do not think it's going to do is be the clear victor. Coupled with the part where nobody knows how much the damn thing is going to cost, I am not advising anyone I know to wait. If you get an Intel system now, I highly doubt the performance of Zen is going to give you a massive case of buyer's remorse.

I still like going small and efficient if the situation allows it, and I think yours does. I think you should be in the market for a mini-ITX Haswell board; assuming you don't overclock, one of the H81 based boards would likely be fine. Keep an eye out though, some of them take laptop memory and you'll want to avoid that. You'd be buying a mobo and case, and possibly a PSU depending on the case you choose. I think replacing the PSU is also a pretty good idea, so maybe that's just good coincidence as well.

I would also buy an inexpensive dGPU, like an RX 460 or GTX 1050, since it sounds like it'd satisfy your gaming needs for the moment and they're both super efficient if you end up keeping this system around as a media PC. Shit, compared to a 5850 over the lifetime of one of those cards it might pay for itself in electricity.

Then, I suppose, when Zen comes out or whatever, you'll have choices to make again. Do you buy a Roku and call it your media device and keep the system you just cobbled together as your primary setup? Do you buy Zen/Vega and designate the system you've currently got to role of secondary media device. If that secondary device is going to be attached to a TV, in a living room type environment, then having the lightweight dGPU in there is good for party games and such if you ever have company over- mine gets used a lot for Gang Beasts and Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes.

 

[Lil Frier]

Hmm, well, at the very least, have you ever done "extensive" testing of the RAM in question, and/or stress-testing the PSU? Those could explain your corruption issues.

I would be very suspect of your current PSU.

Before going any further with your plans to re-build and re-use parts, I would do some testing on your current build.

That's a lot of data-corruption, on a wide range of devices. So much so, that's I'm pretty sure that it's malware (a software issue), or PSU or RAM (hardware issue).

Was there ever any overclocking involved? CPU or RAM?

Edit: Oh yeah, you might want to consider getting a battery-backup unit. Consumer SSD don't like power glitches, it can really screw them up.

What's used to do a PSU stress test? I've never even considered that as a next move, so I don't know of a tool off-hand to do it. The RAM, it keeps slipping my mind. I told myself I'd test that over and over, but when you're running 5-hour HDD checks on a near-daily basis (in an attempt to either recover data or, as I'm doing now, to wipe a drive), you have a lot of time to forget things, haha. I'll be off to bed in a moment, but obviously back to this thread when I get up, and I'll hopefully see this as a reminder!

Like I said, I kind of wish I could just blame malware, but it would be so odd to happen to me 3 times in different ways, and affect 4 drives in 3 different ways (no data loss, but unable to boot on both SSDs, an inaccessible partition one one HDD, and a randomly disappearing folder on the other HDD).

Oh, and no overclocking ever happened. It always told myself I got the 4670K as my first OC CPU, but I never had a need to do it, nor did I ever get the aftermarket cooler to bother following through. The RAM's OC-capable (I think to 2100 or something, but I'm trying to remember from last looking at a box probably 2 years ago), but runs stock (I think 1333).

Tough to say which part to likely blame, the board just got suggested first (by my dad). I don't have the PC randomly dying all the time, nor can I recall a memory-related BSoD, so both the PSU and RAM doesn't seem like likely suspects at first glance. Then again, the PSU's a few years old and was passed down from my dad (better-quality, higher-Watt Corsair than the Thermaltake I had used before), maybe it's starting to wear down. I barely do anything, so it's also still hard to imagine I'm ever pushing this 750W PSU harder even to half its capability (I think this GPU idles around 180W, if I remember correctly, and the ONLY game I have played during this is Rocket League).

The UPS thing has been in my head for a while. I just never researched getting one (I use a surge protector, just not a UPS). Trying to figure out which to pick up is a bit tough. I'll put it in the back of my mind, maybe that can sit on the list of stuff for the next build as well.

Regarding your winding tale of corrupted data, I would indeed primarily suspect the motherboard. Both the PSU and memory are secondary possibilities, but I think if they were the problem that issues would happen more often than it sounds like you're describing.

Some ITX cases can take a full sized ATX PSU, it just depends on the model. And some of them can take the standard ATX size, but have length restrictions that prevent use of some of the physically larger PSUs that exceed the normal ATX size.

If you just want a system for playing music and video, even the smallest Haswell system would be overkill since a Roku would be just fine and plays super well with PLEX.

Now then, there's a lot going on in this thread and you've obviously got some decisions to make. I'm of the opinion, based on what I've read, that Zen is going to be a return to competitiveness for AMD; what I do not think it's going to do is be the clear victor. Coupled with the part where nobody knows how much the damn thing is going to cost, I am not advising anyone I know to wait. If you get an Intel system now, I highly doubt the performance of Zen is going to give you a massive case of buyer's remorse.

I still like going small and efficient if the situation allows it, and I think yours does. I think you should be in the market for a mini-ITX Haswell board; assuming you don't overclock, one of the H81 based boards would likely be fine. Keep an eye out though, some of them take laptop memory and you'll want to avoid that. You'd be buying a mobo and case, and possibly a PSU depending on the case you choose. I think replacing the PSU is also a pretty good idea, so maybe that's just good coincidence as well.

I would also buy an inexpensive dGPU, like an RX 460 or GTX 1050, since it sounds like it'd satisfy your gaming needs for the moment and they're both super efficient if you end up keeping this system around as a media PC. Shit, compared to a 5850 over the lifetime of one of those cards it might pay for itself in electricity.

Then, I suppose, when Zen comes out or whatever, you'll have choices to make again. Do you buy a Roku and call it your media device and keep the system you just cobbled together as your primary setup? Do you buy Zen/Vega and designate the system you've currently got to role of secondary media device. If that secondary device is going to be attached to a TV, in a living room type environment, then having the lightweight dGPU in there is good for party games and such if you ever have company over- mine gets used a lot for Gang Beasts and Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes.

Just to note, the first SSD death happened probably late-winter (thinking February or so). Heck, it might have even been March/April, no really sure. I's guess I got it late-2014. The Samsung was gotten this May, then went out in mid-December. The folder on the Black drive flew away on Saturday night. They HAVE gotten increasingly frequent, but aren't consistent problems.

The new build isn't just waiting to see if Zen is good. There also isn't a desktop-class Kaby Lake to buy. I'd rather not so with Skylake, this has always been a Kaby vs. Zen decision. If competitive, I'll go with Zen (just to support competition as Intel dragged its feet on Kaby Lake). That, and I certainly need a new GPU. That will also be an AMD pickup, one awaiting a Fury replacement. In fact, the GPU is a bigger deal than the CPU (given one is 7 years old and one is 3 years old, and the former is a bigger deal for gaming).

Oh, and my setup is kinda weird. I keep it all in my bedroom. I've got a PS4P, XB1S, and PC in here. It's a pretty spacious bedroom. I might just get a Miracast device or something and project to the TV. Regardless, I was looking at the RX 460 before making this thread, actually. I'll have to further price options out, though. I might be taking a trip to St. Louis tomorrow. If there's time, maybe I can pop into MicroCenter, in the hopes they carry any Haswell hardware (unlikely at this point), or at least get a look at some mini-ITX boxes.

So, at the minimum, at least I know I have A goal, if nothing else: mini-ITX. In that scenario, are there brands for boards, cases, and PSUs I should specifically watch? Is there any major difference in OEM quality going from mid-ATX to mini-ITX? I know I saw that BitFenix brand mentioned for mini-ITX cases, and I haven't heard of them outside of the market, so I didn't know if there were other OEM quality changes with the build frame change as well.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Just a quick note, I have a Skylake-compatible (ASRock, I think) H110-chipset mini-ITX board, currently with 2x4GB DDR4-2800 (running at 2133), and an i3-6100 in it, that I could be motivated to get rid of. (I'm not using it.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

To do a PSU stress-test, I recommend OCCT's "PSU" test. This may require installing DirectX 9 libs onto your OS, if you are running Win10 though. Just an extra step.

Alternatively, you can just run Prime95 while running Furmark. Same basic idea, stress CPU + GPU to max.

For RAM testing, HCI memtest in Windows, or Memtest86+ (the plus is important) off of a bootable CD.

 

[Lil Frier]

Just a quick note, I have a Skylake-compatible (ASRock, I think) H110-chipset mini-ITX board, currently with 2x4GB DDR4-2800 (running at 2133), and an i3-6100 in it, that I could be motivated to get rid of. (I'm not using it.)

Well, I'm trying to do this around my Haswell i5, and it's all about repurposing the CPU (and other parts). I'm not trying to full on buy a second computer, this is more just messing around with what will be spare parts.

To do a PSU stress-test, I recommend OCCT's "PSU" test. This may require installing DirectX 9 libs onto your OS, if you are running Win10 though. Just an extra step.

Alternatively, you can just run Prime95 while running Furmark. Same basic idea, stress CPU + GPU to max.

For RAM testing, HCI memtest in Windows, or Memtest86+ (the plus is important) off of a bootable CD.

Gotcha, I'll have to look that up. I did the internal memory check within Windows (since it is what I had on-hand when I woke up). It passed with no issue. I'll go grab OCCT now, and try running that test once I am done moving a big group of files.

I got the Blue drive totally wiped. Then, not thinking that through, I didn't know off-hand how to get the thing up and running in my PC again. I also noticed it was set as an MBR drive, probably why the thing had 4 partitions in it. Set it as GPT, since trying to initialize it as MBR was only allowing a maximum partition size of 2 TB (it's a 3-TB drive).

 

[sinisterDei]

So, at the minimum, at least I know I have A goal, if nothing else: mini-ITX. In that scenario, are there brands for boards, cases, and PSUs I should specifically watch? Is there any major difference in OEM quality going from mid-ATX to mini-ITX? I know I saw that BitFenix brand mentioned for mini-ITX cases, and I haven't heard of them outside of the market, so I didn't know if there were other OEM quality changes with the build frame change as well.

When it comes to motherboards, all the major players that exist in the full size ATX space play ball in the ITX space as well for the most part, and if you like them in full size ATX you should like them in ITX. I'm not personally a big brand loyalist for any components - GPUs, hard drives, motherboards; people get streaky with certain brands and develop preferences and phobias. My boss has had every WD drive he's ever had fail on him, so he only buys Hitachi. My parents have had three Hitachi drives fail on them, they now shop WD exclusively. Me? I just get whatever's fairly priced and assume that everything fails eventually.

For the ITX boards, you'll be limited by availability. Your Microcenter only seems to have two Haswell mini-ITX boards in stock, none of which are new. Both are Gigabyte, one is a Z97 board the other H97. Either would function fine, but they are open box so you'd have to talk to them and see what you're getting and what you're missing. If you buy online, you have more options, but are still limited compared to something new. The MSI H81i board is very inexpensive and available on Newegg and should function just fine. I personally have no problem with MSI, ASUS, ASRock, and Gigabyte motherboards; those are the brands I use most often (along with Supermicro, which doesn't really apply here). You may also try posting a WTB onto the FS/FT boards here and see if you get any bites.

For cases, I know a bit less about them since almost 100% of my ITX purchases have been for micro-server builds. I do know that some manufacturers are more known for their ITX cases, where that's not really the case in the motherboard land. I have heard good things about Bitfenix's ITX cases, but haven't used one personally. In general terms, I'm a fan of Silverstone and Fractal Design cases, but I haven't touched anything smaller than mATX (my HTPC is a mATX case with an ITX board in it). I think I've read positive things about the Thermaltake Core V1 chassis as well. The other thing about cases is I think they're largely subjective, since my sense of style and yours may not coincide. I personally like the visuals of the Lian Li PC-Q01B, though functionally it looks a bit spartan.

And then power supply, you'll obviously be restricted by the particular chassis. The previously mentioned Core V1 takes a full ATX supply, the price comparable Silverstone SG05/SG06 takes a SFX supply. I think I like the layout of the Core V1 better. The Bitfenix Prodigy is more expensive, and looks to take a full ATX supply. I've only used Silverstone's SFX PSUs, but on the full ATX land I'm again pretty equal opportunity. Corsair, EVGA, Antec, Seasonic- they're all fine to me. Just be aware and don't buy the super cheapy brands (Raidmax I'm looking at you!)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Now that I think about it, I've got some Asus H81 ITX boards, that I got a good deal on, refurb, from Newegg on ebay. I bought four, used one, and have three spares. They go for like $83 or something extravagant like that normally, if non-refurb.

I'd sell one, PM me for more info.

 

[Lil Frier]

When it comes to motherboards, all the major players that exist in the full size ATX space play ball in the ITX space as well for the most part, and if you like them in full size ATX you should like them in ITX. I'm not personally a big brand loyalist for any components - GPUs, hard drives, motherboards; people get streaky with certain brands and develop preferences and phobias. My boss has had every WD drive he's ever had fail on him, so he only buys Hitachi. My parents have had three Hitachi drives fail on them, they now shop WD exclusively. Me? I just get whatever's fairly priced and assume that everything fails eventually.

For the ITX boards, you'll be limited by availability. Your Microcenter only seems to have two Haswell mini-ITX boards in stock, none of which are new. Both are Gigabyte, one is a Z97 board the other H97. Either would function fine, but they are open box so you'd have to talk to them and see what you're getting and what you're missing. If you buy online, you have more options, but are still limited compared to something new. The MSI H81i board is very inexpensive and available on Newegg and should function just fine. I personally have no problem with MSI, ASUS, ASRock, and Gigabyte motherboards; those are the brands I use most often (along with Supermicro, which doesn't really apply here). You may also try posting a WTB onto the FS/FT boards here and see if you get any bites.

For cases, I know a bit less about them since almost 100% of my ITX purchases have been for micro-server builds. I do know that some manufacturers are more known for their ITX cases, where that's not really the case in the motherboard land. I have heard good things about Bitfenix's ITX cases, but haven't used one personally. In general terms, I'm a fan of Silverstone and Fractal Design cases, but I haven't touched anything smaller than mATX (my HTPC is a mATX case with an ITX board in it). I think I've read positive things about the Thermaltake Core V1 chassis as well. The other thing about cases is I think they're largely subjective, since my sense of style and yours may not coincide. I personally like the visuals of the Lian Li PC-Q01B, though functionally it looks a bit spartan.

And then power supply, you'll obviously be restricted by the particular chassis. The previously mentioned Core V1 takes a full ATX supply, the price comparable Silverstone SG05/SG06 takes a SFX supply. I think I like the layout of the Core V1 better. The Bitfenix Prodigy is more expensive, and looks to take a full ATX supply. I've only used Silverstone's SFX PSUs, but on the full ATX land I'm again pretty equal opportunity. Corsair, EVGA, Antec, Seasonic- they're all fine to me. Just be aware and don't buy the super cheapy brands (Raidmax I'm looking at you!)

Thanks, very helpful info! I think that Lian Li looks OK, it's a basic box. I might prefer something that does better horizontally (on a desk), though I imagine I can just turn that on its side. Just looks a bit chunky in the images on Newegg. I've gone ASUS without issue for a board, and ASRock is the one that I have now (which might be causing drive problems). That my dad also got a bad ASRock board (I think on his FX build-8350), so if the board IS causing my problems, I might just take that 2014-2015 as a "bad run" for ASRock and not touch them to stick with my Haswell CPU again. My dad refuses to touch MSI because of despicable practices about 20 years ago, but I've never tried them or Gigabyte myself, and I know both get good marks from a lot of folks.

The PSU thing is hard to figure out. One board I saw on Newegg had a complaint about a 19V power source, rather than a standard PSU. It looks like I need something like a laptop power connector for it. Are those better/worse quality boards, ones without a standard PSU?

 

[sinisterDei]

If you stick a dGPU in the system and a regular i5 rather than one of the low-power variants, you'll want a regular PSU probably. It's easier than adding up the wattage to figure out if an external 90/120/150/180W power brick will handle the system.

And I'm just laughing, since other than mine, every mobo in my house is ASRock 🙂 Like I said, folks get streaks and develop preferences. I'd talk to Larry there about his H81 ITX boards he's got laying around, seems like a pretty lucky match 🙂

 

[Lil Frier]

To do a PSU stress-test, I recommend OCCT's "PSU" test. This may require installing DirectX 9 libs onto your OS, if you are running Win10 though. Just an extra step.

Alternatively, you can just run Prime95 while running Furmark. Same basic idea, stress CPU + GPU to max.

For RAM testing, HCI memtest in Windows, or Memtest86+ (the plus is important) off of a bootable CD.

Gave OCCT a try. The test ends after about 6 minutes because of the CPU temp (surpasses 85 C). It idles around 35-40 C, if I remember correctly. Maybe I'll see if I can stop by MicroCenter and pick up some paste and a new cooler (I never got off the stock one because I don't do anything that taxes my system), and try it then. Always meant to pick up a better one (like a CM Evo).

 

[sinisterDei]

This popped up on my feed - Newegg has a sale on the CM Elite 130 Mini-ITX case - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119286 is the link. Supposed to be a decent case, and it's $27 after MIR.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I have a gaming HTPC (4770k WCed, 480) in a Fractal Node 304 case. I love this case for the size class.

 

[piasabird]

The last computer I built was a minimalistic browsing and video computer with a low-end motherboard and no video card or DVD drive. I put it inside a Thermaltake Cube Case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811133260

The power supply sits in the bottom right under the MITX Motherboard tray, leaving enough room for a CPU Cooler.
It has no DVD tray. While it looks cute, and all the panels are removable for access, a Cube case is kind of wide so it is questionable whether that option actually saves space.

I have a CM Elite 130 and do not much like it. It does not have enough room for good sized CPU cooler and it is a bit hard to orient things inside the case. A lot of the selection depends on how you build your computer. If you dont use a DVD drive you can put Hard drives or SSD's in the DVD area. Another option instead of the standard CPU cooler is a water cooler in the front. They made it just large enough to get a radiator in that area. While the case is fairly short, it is also fairly long like an ATX case. 15.7 inches long and the power supply sticks out a little in the back.

 

[Lil Frier]

I'm not sure if I'll want a disc drive. In the short-term, I might. I have a lot of CDs I've needed to get ripped to my HDD for almost a year, but my PC setup makes that more tedious than I care to deal with. Sitting at a desk, with a mini-ITX case on top, makes swapping CDs in and out easy. Long-term, I would likely just keep the disc drive in my bigger PC (likely sticking with my Rosewill Blackhawk case). Not having the disc drive option isn't a dealbreaker (I could drop $20 and get an external one, or take off the side door and hook it up for a day or two to the board internally), but room for a possibly necessary video card would be a factor. I'm thinking something in the $100 range (like the RX 460) would get thrown in so I can have multiple displays and play a few games without settings compromises (not that Civ V and Rocket League are powerhouses). I'll check that case out.