How to re-bottle a product and sell it as something else?

[Northern Lawn]

I know someone with a business idea, he wants to re-bottle someone else's product, say a soap, re-bottle it and sell it for another household use, a use that the original manufacturer is not aware of.

He wants to put his own name on someone else's product..basically, but sell it for another purpose.

I told him it sounds shady, he asked me how he could go about doing this legally.

I don't think he wants to contact the original company that makes the product now, he thinks they will steal his idea. That's why I think he won't tell me exactly what product or what alternate use idea he has.

Any one familiar with this sort of thing?

Oh, one other thing, this all takes place in England.

 

[rudeguy]

so he wants to steal?

 

[Northern Lawn]

so he wants to steal?

I basically asked him just that, but he said he wants to do whatever he's doing legally.

I'm trying to think of a good analogy...

If I discovered that 7 Up removes stains from clothing and the 7 Up manufacturer didn't realize this.. is there a legal way to re-bottle their product and sell as a stain remover rather than a soda drink?

I'm thinking he would HAVE to talk to the 7 Up people even though he doesn't want to do that.

 

[rudeguy]

put it to him this way:

Once the manufacturer realizes what he is doing *IF* he can find a legal way to do it, all they would have to do is advertise that their product also does that and he would be out of business.

The only legal way would be to modify the formula so he would not violate the company's patents.

 

[Northern Lawn]

The only legal way would be to modify the formula so he would not violate the company's patents.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

 

[lxskllr]

put it to him this way:

Once the manufacturer realizes what he is doing *IF* he can find a legal way to do it, all they would have to do is advertise that their product also does that and he would be out of business.

The only legal way would be to modify the formula so he would not violate the company's patents.

I agree with your first part, but not the second. I'm not a trade lawyer, but I don't see any issues with repacking a product. He could be done in by the people that actually make it though. Put a pinch of salt in it. Then it'll be proprietary to the friend ;^)

 

[waggy]

put it to him this way:

Once the manufacturer realizes what he is doing *IF* he can find a legal way to do it, all they would have to do is advertise that their product also does that and he would be out of business.

The only legal way would be to modify the formula so he would not violate the company's patents.

my ex-brother in law would go to a farm store buy 50 gallon barrels of chemicals. adds some minor thing and then jacks the price up 20% and makes money.

i hate to think that is legal but meh. i keep wanting him to get nailed.

 

[Northern Lawn]

my ex-brother in law would go to a farm store buy 50 gallon barrels of chemicals. adds some minor thing and then jacks the price up 20% and makes money.

i hate to think that is legal but meh. i keep wanting him to get nailed.

Haha, when I was a kid I would buy candy from 711, cut in half and sell it for full price at my kool aid stand.

 

[sourceninja]

This is basically the case with World Best Cat Litter. It's corn chicken feed that has been dried a bit more, bagged, and sold as cat litter (as far as I can tell anyway)

 

[Dirigible]

Why would this not be legal? People buy and resell all the time.

Regarding patents: Some products have patent protection but most don't. Anyway, it doesn't matter if a product's formulation is patented if he buys it from the patent holder. Patent exhaustion kicks in and he's in the clear.

 

[OverVolt]

The guy who invented soft soap bought all the plastic pumps in existence to keep the big shots from being able to get into the business. So says cracked.com

I'm betting a similar formula can be manufactured with a few phone calls to China.

Softsoap guy made out well.

 

[Fritzo]

He would have to make an agreement with the manufacturer and contract them as a supplier.

 

[waggy]

Why would this not be legal? People buy and resell all the time.

i don't see how taking a product. re-badge it as your own would be legal.

now you can buy a case of pepsi and offer $3 per can. but i don't see how you can buy the pepsi put them in a can marked "waggy juice" and get paid.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

put it to him this way:

Once the manufacturer realizes what he is doing *IF* he can find a legal way to do it, all they would have to do is advertise that their product also does that and he would be out of business.

The only legal way would be to modify the formula so he would not violate the company's patents.

Wrong in many (most) instances. If OP's friend purchased the product in an authorized sale, he would likely be protected by the exhaustion (first sale) doctrine. Gist of the exhaustion doctrine is that when a purchaser buys a patented product in an authorized sale, the patentee's control over the use and sale of the product is "exhausted" and the purchaser is free to use or resell his purchased copy of the product. Note - this does not mean that the purchaser could make copies of the purchased product . . . he/she can simply resell the purchased product.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustion_doctrine

Note 2 - Manufacturers can limit post purchase resale of a product via contract law. See Quanta v. LG 553 U.S. 617 (2008) and just about every end user license agreement that comes with software.

Note 3: A version of the first sale doctrine also protects a purchaser's ability to resell products that are subject to copyright. But the Kirtsaeng case that is pending before the Supreme Court might change that.

Edit: Just re-read the OP and noticed that the activity is taking place in England. My comments in this thread are based on U.S. law, not English law. I have no idea how the Brits would treat this situation.

<----- Patent Attorney

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I'm betting a similar formula can be manufactured with a few phone calls to China.

This is dangerous advice if patents cover the formula in question. Sure, you could make gobs of the stuff in China. But it would be really stupid to try and import it if the formula is protected by a valid U.S. patent.

Edit- Again, this assumed that the activity was taking place in the U.S., which its not. Still, Britain has a fairly robust IP system. Best to be careful.

 

[CZroe]

It's your property. They got their dues and you are not profiting off their name and trademark, only your property. It's no different than buying the ingredients.

Japan is weird in that you aren't technically allowed to sell a used CD, software, or video game software if it is copyrighted, but even that isn't enforced. Most other places have a concept of "first sale doctrine" that treats the original copy you purchased as your property to do with as you please (rent, loan, view, etc) as long as you don't profit off their copyright. When there is no copyright, like with a typical consumer goods product, things are a lot simpler.

 

[CZroe]

i don't see how taking a product. re-badge it as your own would be legal.

now you can buy a case of pepsi and offer $3 per can. but i don't see how you can buy the pepsi put them in a can marked "waggy juice" and get paid.

The same way a kid can buy Lipton tea bags and add Sunkist lemons with Dixie Crystals sugar and City of Whatever Municipal Water Supply H2O and sell it as "Little Jimmy's Lemon Iced Sweet Tea" from his lemonade stand. It's Lipton tea but HIS property to do as he pleases with.

A burger place isn't going to be sued by the meat supplier and the ketchup maker for not branding their burgers unless it was in breech of contract. "Buy a Double Heinz Conagra Kraft Cheeseburger from McDonald's!" On the contrary: They compete for sweetheart deals to promote the brands. You'd better believe that the Coca-Cola Company wants McDonald's to stick with and promote Coke, so that factors into the contract negotiations. Coke considers McD's a flagship account, a symbolic feather in their cap, and will not let that contract go without some extreme conditions. They will (and probably do) lose money on it and consider it an advertising expense thanks to contractual obligations and squeezing out/undercutting major competitors.

 

[Dirigible]

CZroe's got it.

 

[Howard]

The guy who invented soft soap bought all the plastic pumps in existence to keep the big shots from being able to get into the business. So says cracked.com

I'm betting a similar formula can be manufactured with a few phone calls to China.

Softsoap guy made out well.

Ridiculous. Retooling a plant to make pumps shouldn't take more than a few months at most.

 

[OCGuy]

Stores do this all the time. The "store brand" generics are generally made by companies with ties to the "brand names", with minor alterations to the formula to keep a slight difference.

It is the same reason that name brand pharma companies will also make the generics...so they can capture the budget and "discerning" customers.

 

[CZroe]

Stores do this all the time. The "store brand" generics are generally made by companies with ties to the "brand names", with minor alterations to the formula to keep a slight difference.

It is the same reason that name brand pharma companies will also make the generics...so they can capture the budget and "discerning" customers.

You should also mention that the slight difference is not for legally required reasons but, rather, so that they can claim on the bottle that "This formula is not marketed or sold under any other name or brand" without lying to convince the people willing to pay more to continue paying more. They could change the scent of a shampoo or the amount of artificial color in mouthwash and claim that.

 

[OCGuy]

In the US, most chemicals are regulated by the federal government. There are warnings on household chemicals that say that using it for something other than what is on the label is a crime.

From a more economical standpoint, your friend is a moron. Buying one or multiple retail products and then trying to re-sell them will never capture enough margin to make it worth it.

You need to take two generic products (water and vinegar) and package them as something original (See: Windex) and make a fortune.

Mixing Windex + something else would not be cost effective.

 

[CZroe]

In the US, most chemicals are regulated by the federal government. There are warnings on household chemicals that say that using it for something other than what is on the label is a crime.

Only dangerous products, like highly reactive substances, poisons, etc. You won't find that label on soap or soda.

Also, isn't Windex largely ammonia? Seems obvious when you smell it and I've always avoided getting it near bleach for that reason.

 

[elitejp]

does anybody actually know how to do what the OP is asking?

 

[OverVolt]

I don't think its possible anyway.