How to modernize city streets

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,446
136
This is art to me. You need to click through and appreciate the images that go along with the descriptions of what can be done.


"When automobiles first appeared on the streets of New York, quickly and decisively transforming the city into an early center of car culture, those streets bent to their needs. Sidewalks were narrowed to add lanes of traffic. Crossing the street, once an improvised sport of dodge-the-wagon played anywhere, was confined to corners and governed by lights. In the 1950s, the city converted miles of curbside into free overnight storage space for private vehicles. The result was that virtually every street and avenue became a river of moving steel, flanked by banks of immobile steel. We need to adapt again, this time to the long-obvious reality that cars are too plentiful, too big, too polluting, and too murderous to stampede a crowded city.

Streets are not givens but tools that we call into service for a dizzying array of unrelated purposes: to parade fashions; to exercise our bodies and our First Amendment rights; to sit, shop, eat, play chess, avoid infection, and socialize; to beat the drum for causes; to ferry supplies, handle stormwater, pile trash, facilitate surveillance, and provide staging grounds for construction. Tens of thousands of New Yorkers use streets as beds.

That interconnectedness can be hard to keep in mind. A kid riding against traffic speeds through a red light as you step off the curb; you shake your fist at bike lanes and gonzo scooterists. An SUV making a left turn crushes a child in a stroller, and we rail about reckless drivers. A restaurant’s fleet of e-bikes is chained to scaffolding, blocking a wheelchair user, and … well, we’re not quite sure what to curse. Rarely do we see these dysfunctions as products of a systemic problem. New York’s streets, fought over by hostile factions, have been patched up and banged together like an old Buick in Havana...."
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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I'll toss this out there, prudent or not, but if i am not mistaken the Biden infrastructure plan includes turning America's highways into smart highways. Highways that can handle the insurgents of smart cars, and we'll need those smart highways sooner than later.

As the boom in smart cars begins, those cars must communicate with the road and the road communicating back to the car. Let's hope that American technology can keep up and stay ahead of the upcoming advances in smart car technology. Certainly Joe Biden understands, but should republicans take over and have their way we will have a slew of smart cars on the roads and our roads as clueless as those republicans in congress. Just one more area where America falls behind while China and the rest of the world excels.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
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There is some interesting information coming out right now about how to make city streets efficient. In America, for a long time our constant strategy has been to simply add more lanes when traffic gets bad. The problem with this is all it does is encourage more people to drive. In some cases, they've found the best way to alleviate traffic is to do exactly what is shown in those images, decrease the number of lanes and provide dedicated lanes for public transportation. People in general will take whatever form of transportation is fastest and most convenient. Cars are by far the least efficient at transporting large numbers of people through small areas, but in the US we are determined to try to make it work. I think if we stopped catering to personal cars and instead designed infrastructure to optimize it for public transportation, biking, and walking, we could actually make progress on our traffic problems.

There is a youtube channel that as put out a lot of interesting videos related to this topic. This video shows an example of how we are maybe reaching a turning point.

 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,722
7,828
136
Our local leaders have implemented "road diets" on some streets around here.

Result -
  • Created slow down's, increased the cue at traffic lights to it now takes 3 - 4 cycles to make it through the intersection, instead of 1
  • The traffic on other routes and side streets has increased significantly as drivers avoid the diet road, resulting in longer idle times, increasing emissions, and just pisses people off, demonstrated by horn honking when people don't run an amber light.
  • The bike riders are still riding in the travel lane because the "bike" lane is littered with leaves, trash, and other debris that makes them unsafe for bicycles.
  • Left turns out of businesses or driveways are virtually impossible now.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,446
136
There is some interesting information coming out right now about how to make city streets efficient. In America, for a long time our constant strategy has been to simply add more lanes when traffic gets bad. The problem with this is all it does is encourage more people to drive. In some cases, they've found the best way to alleviate traffic is to do exactly what is shown in those images, decrease the number of lanes and provide dedicated lanes for public transportation. People in general will take whatever form of transportation is fastest and most convenient. Cars are by far the least efficient at transporting large numbers of people through small areas, but in the US we are determined to try to make it work. I think if we stopped catering to personal cars and instead designed infrastructure to optimize it for public transportation, biking, and walking, we could actually make progress on our traffic problems.

There is a youtube channel that as put out a lot of interesting videos related to this topic. This video shows an example of how we are maybe reaching a turning point.

That's a good YouTube channel. Also check out CityBeautiful if you haven't already
 
Nov 17, 2019
10,673
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I want to transport me. When I want to go, where I want to go and with whatever load I want to carry. I'm not interested in moving large numbers of people on scheduled routes between fixed points.

My nearest 'city' of about 25,000 recently reworked a road I travel. It had two narrowish lanes in each direction. They made it one lane in each direction with a center turn lane and bike lanes in each direction. I've never seen a bike in this town. Anywhere. Any time.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,049
12,720
136
Its striking to me that almost everybody, no matter our origin story, agrees that green and trees are soothing and beautiful.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
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I want to transport me. When I want to go, where I want to go and with whatever load I want to carry. I'm not interested in moving large numbers of people on scheduled routes between fixed points.

My nearest 'city' of about 25,000 recently reworked a road I travel. It had two narrowish lanes in each direction. They made it one lane in each direction with a center turn lane and bike lanes in each direction. I've never seen a bike in this town. Anywhere. Any time.

Maybe because nobody will ride on a road with no room for bikes. Now that it has lanes, watch for cyclists. Check twice, save a life.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,719
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At least for NYC I think we should eliminate all car parking. It’s a stupid use of public land. Generally speaking we should make the city as hostile as possible for private vehicle use and instead convert that to outdoor public space wherever possible.

For example I live next to 5th Ave in Brooklyn. Every weekend they have been closing parts of it to make room for outdoor dining, weird dance parties, whatever, but they can only do so much as it has to be reopened to traffic during the week. They should just close it permanently and then people could do some really good stuff.
 
Nov 17, 2019
10,673
6,398
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^^^ I think they should build high rise, high density, low cost housing. Pack in as many people as possible. Keep them out of my rural space.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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^^^ I think they should build high rise, high density, low cost housing. Pack in as many people as possible. Keep them out of my rural space.
Sure! If you prevent people from living where they actually want to live eventually they will live wherever they can afford it.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,015
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There is not much impetus to make these changes. We need to ask instead how to foster that which motivates the change we wish to see instead of attempting to force the change ourselves.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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There is not much impetus to make these changes. We need to ask instead how to foster that which motivates the change we wish to see instead of attempting to force the change ourselves.
I don't agree at all - there's tons of impetus to make these changes! The main issue is that in our current system a small number of motivated people can block changes that the vast majority support.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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I don't agree at all - there's tons of impetus to make these changes! The main issue is that in our current system a small number of motivated people can block changes that the vast majority support.

Most people are in favor of such changes but that's not of course who shows up and screams at Community Board meetings (which in themselves are another problem insofar as that they even exist). The city since Bloomberg has had a weak mayor who even though he wields near dictatorial control over all this has resisted changes at almost every turn. Adams is so weird that I won't even speculate what his policies might be.

Contrast with what Hidalgo is doing in Paris and US urban leadership really looks ineffectual.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,719
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Most people are in favor of such changes but that's not of course who shows up and screams at Community Board meetings (which in themselves are another problem insofar as that they even exist). The city since Bloomberg has had a weak mayor who even though he wields near dictatorial control over all this has resisted changes at almost every turn. Adams is so weird that I won't even speculate what his policies might be.

Contrast with what Hidalgo is doing in Paris and US urban leadership really looks ineffectual.
That and the massive abuse of environmental review laws where if you want to paint the street a different color you have to litigate it for two years.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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That and the massive abuse of environmental review laws where if you want to paint the street a different color you have to litigate it for two years.

Right. They basically never win either. Just a tactic to delay and hope the city gives up.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Right. They basically never win either. Just a tactic to delay and hope the city gives up.
It's also a tactic to deter development by making builders price in massive litigation costs to any buildings they want to make.

Environmental review laws are something that I'm sure sounded like a great idea but they need to be abolished and rewritten to place those powers in the government and remove them from private litigants.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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It's also a tactic to deter development by making builders price in massive litigation costs to any buildings they want to make.

Environmental review laws are something that I'm sure sounded like a great idea but they need to be abolished and rewritten to place those powers in the government and remove them from private litigants.

NY state should really start following CA's lead and begin clawing some of this back like how they're chipping away at CEQA.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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NY state should really start following CA's lead and begin clawing some of this back like how they're chipping away at CEQA.
If I recall, NY just passed Question 2 on the ballot - a constitutional amendment that gives NYers a right to a healthful environment. I'm sure that won't be used as an additional snag to development /s
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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If I recall, NY just passed Question 2 on the ballot - a constitutional amendment that gives NYers a right to a healthful environment. I'm sure that won't be used as an additional snag to development /s

Yeah that should really help. Owners of developable plots in Jersey City and Newark rejoice.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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That and the massive abuse of environmental review laws where if you want to paint the street a different color you have to litigate it for two years.

I'm imagining there were a lot of people who opposed the modernization of streets for cars, quite vehemently so.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
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At least for NYC I think we should eliminate all car parking. It’s a stupid use of public land. Generally speaking we should make the city as hostile as possible for private vehicle use and instead convert that to outdoor public space wherever possible.

For example I live next to 5th Ave in Brooklyn. Every weekend they have been closing parts of it to make room for outdoor dining, weird dance parties, whatever, but they can only do so much as it has to be reopened to traffic during the week. They should just close it permanently and then people could do some really good stuff.
In any major city I've been to that has zones where cars aren't allowed (other than some hours for delivery vehicles), that section becomes the most vibrant part of the city.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I'm imagining there were a lot of people who opposed the modernization of streets for cars, quite vehemently so.
I agree, but back then opponents didn't have the legal weapons available today. It took like a year for the city to be able to paint 14th st. a different color and make it into a busway.
 
Dec 10, 2005
23,990
6,793
136
I agree, but back then opponents didn't have the legal weapons available today. It took like a year for the city to be able to paint 14th st. a different color and make it into a busway.
The ridiculousness of some of the environmental review lawsuits also cannot be understated. People are using these laws to delay and block bus lanes and bike lanes, things that facilitate transportation that is objectively better for the environment compared to the status quo of personal automobiles.