How to Humble a Wing Nut

Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
I came across this article regarding a recent study and thought a few here might be interested as ATPN has more than their fair share of "wing nuts".

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-20/how-to-humble-a-wing-nut.html

How to Humble a Wing Nut
By Cass R. Sunstein May 20, 2013

There is no standard definition of the all-important term “wing nut,” so let’s provide one. A wing nut is someone who has a dogmatic commitment to an extreme political view (“wing”) that is false and at least a bit crazy (“nut”).

A wing nut might believe that George W. Bush is a fascist, that Barack Obama is a socialist, that big banks run the Department of the Treasury or that the U.S. intervened in Libya because of oil.

When wing nuts encounter people with whom they disagree, they immediately impugn their opponents’ motivations. Whatever their religion, they are devout Manicheans, dividing their fellow citizens into the forces of light and the forces of darkness.

Wing nuts have a lot of fellow travelers -- people who don’t fit the definition, yet who are similarly dogmatic and whose views, though not really crazy, aren’t exactly evidence-based. You can be a wing nut on a particular issue without being a wing nut in general. Most human beings can hear the voice, at least on occasion, of their inner wing nut.

The good news is that wing nuts usually don’t matter. The bad news is that they influence people who do. Sadly, more information often fails to correct people’s misunderstandings. In fact, it can backfire and entrench them. Can anything be done?

Stunning Conclusion

For a positive answer, consider an intriguing study by Philip Fernbach, a University of Colorado business school professor, and his colleagues. Their central finding is that if you ask people to explain exactly why they think as they do, they discover how much they don’t know -- and they become more humble and therefore more moderate.

The study came in four stages. First, people were asked to state their positions on a series of political issues, including a cap-and-trade system for carbon emissions, a national flat tax, merit-based pay for teachers and unilateral sanctions on Iran for its nuclear program. They were asked to describe their position on a seven-point scale whose endpoints were “strongly in favor” and “strongly opposed.”

Second, people were asked to rate their degree of understanding of each issue on a seven-point scale. The third step was the crucial one; they were asked to “describe all the details you know about [for example, the impact of instituting a ‘cap and trade’ system for carbon emissions], going from the first step to the last, and providing the causal connection between the steps.” Fourth, people were asked to rerate their understanding on the seven-point scale and to restate their position on the relevant issue.

The results were stunning. On every issue, the result of requesting an explanation was to persuade people to give a lower rating of their own understanding -- and to offer a more moderate view on each issue. In a follow-up experiment, Fernbach and his co-authors found that after being asked to explain their views, people were less likely to want to give a bonus payment to a relevant advocacy group.

Interestingly, Fernbach and his co-authors found no increase in moderation when they asked people not to “describe all the details you know” about the likely effects of the various proposals, but simply to say why they believe what they do. If you ask people to give reasons for their beliefs, they tend to act as their own lawyers or public relations managers, and they don’t move toward greater moderation. The lesson is subtle: What produces an increase in humility, and hence moderation, is a request for an explanation of the causal mechanisms that underlie people’s beliefs.

Motivated Reasoning


In an unnoticed essay, the economist Albert Hirschman lamented the “overproduction of opinionated opinion.” He feared that strong opinions, as such, “might be dangerous to the health of our democracy,” because they can make it harder for people to understand one another and to find mutually agreeable solutions.

If Fernbach and his co-authors are to be believed, the problem is curable -- at least if those who have “opinionated opinions” have less than solid foundations for their beliefs and if they can be convinced of that fact.

For wing nuts and their many fellow travelers, however, there is a serious obstacle, and it goes by the name of “motivated reasoning.” When people have a strong emotional attachment to their initial convictions, they tend to heap ridicule on anything that runs counter to those convictions and to give a lot of weight to anything that supports them.

Motivated reasoning helps to account for two defining characteristics of wing nuts and their fellow travelers: a readiness to attack people’s good faith, rather than their actual arguments, and an eagerness to make the worst, rather than the best, of opposing positions.

If Fernbach and his co-authors are right, this obstacle may not be insuperable. Serious efforts to examine the assumptions behind your own beliefs, and to identify what you don’t know, are likely to produce an increase in humility. Whether or not you change your view, you may well be humbled -- and end up being a bit more charitable to those who see things differently.
Here's a link to the study.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/04/24/0956797612464058.abstract
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,236
14,236
136
It's too bad that people cannot be forced to explain the implications of their beliefs except when paid a little money to participate in a study. The result is not entirely surprising but it's difficult to see what feasible real world course of action is suggested by it.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,232
16,537
136
Incorruptible would be the exception to this study, he is a special kind of wing nut.

In fact I would say most of the nuts here don't prove the studies conclusions, however those that are labeled "left" or "right" do fall in line with the studies results.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
It's too bad that people cannot be forced to explain the implications of their beliefs except when paid a little money to participate in a study. The result is not entirely surprising but it's difficult to see what feasible real world course of action is suggested by it.
Agree...however, I thought the study did offer some interesting insight into the human condition.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Incorruptible would be the exception to this study, he is a special kind of wing nut.

In fact I would say most of the nuts here don't prove the studies conclusions, however those that are labeled "left" or "right" do fall in line with the studies results.

I support the Constitution while you are a militant obama supporter. Who is the real wing nut?

Keep talking like a toughguy on an internet forum.
 

BlueWolf47

Senior member
Apr 22, 2005
653
0
76
I support the Constitution while you are a militant obama supporter. Who is the real wing nut?

Keep talking like a toughguy on an internet forum.

Your statement's would fall into the wing nut catagory. Thank you for providing everyone with an example that can be referred to when discussing this study.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Just for fun, I did a search on "piece of shit". The number one user for that particular phrase is Incorruptible, nobody else comes close. I am starting to wonder if he has some scatological fetish or just a very limited vocabulary. It does fit neatly within "When people have a strong emotional attachment to their initial convictions, they tend to heap ridicule on anything that runs counter to those convictions".....
 

BlueWolf47

Senior member
Apr 22, 2005
653
0
76
I think he deserves his very own thread. Maybe a collection of his incoherent ramblings. We could then start to make a psychological assesment of his cognative impairment. Or just for our amusement.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
I think he deserves his very own thread. Maybe a collection of his incoherent ramblings. We could then start to make a psychological assesment of his cognative impairment. Or just for our amusement.

In a different culture, he'd have become a suicide bomber Jihadi...

True Believers are not rational, by definition. They Believe. It's Faith beyond reason. Emotional need mires them in Truthiness, a concept beyond their cognition.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
In a different culture, he'd have become a suicide bomber Jihadi...

True Believers are not rational, by definition. They Believe. It's Faith beyond reason. Emotional need mires them in Truthiness, a concept beyond their cognition.

Funny you attack me but not moonbeam or any of the crazy leftists. Typical liberal moron.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Just for fun, I did a search on "piece of shit". The number one user for that particular phrase is Incorruptible, nobody else comes close. I am starting to wonder if he has some scatological fetish or just a very limited vocabulary. ...
:D

I did something similar a few weeks ago, checking how many times Inconsequential used "piece(s) of shit" and POS. It was roughly 500 times in about a year. "Limited" is putting it kindly.


In a different culture, he'd have become a suicide bomber Jihadi...
Hardly. He is inconsequential, both in name and in impact. He is empty noise, a yapping blowhard, lacking the depth of conviction and the spine to do anything more.


You guys do understand you're being trolled, right? While I have a low opinion of the right's lunatic fringe, Inconsequential takes it to a whole new dimension. I can't believe it is possible for a real human being to be that defective. He's doing this for yuks, working a limited script of ideas and phrases to see how much he can get you all worked up. I suspect he is just another Cybrsage persona, but I suppose such trolls are sadly common and relatively interchangeable. Regardless, he is not to be taken seriously; he never offers anything original, thoughtful, or consequential. Use him for cheap laughs or just ignore him entirely.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
Funny you attack me but not moonbeam or any of the crazy leftists. Typical liberal moron.

Heh. Your headset is beyond salvation, short of your world of Truthiness crumbling to dust around you followed by a miraculous epiphany.

Your psychic craving for superiority, righteousness & certainty speaks of deep emotional damage & insecurity. So long as you can deny such exists, refuse to address the underlying issues, you'll remain so.

It's sad, really, particularly when you and others are being ruthlessly exploited by forces beyond your comprehension.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,132
6,612
126
Funny you attack me but not moonbeam or any of the crazy leftists. Typical liberal moron.

Now now, who on this forum constantly stresses the need for humility as the escape from the madness of certainty. Who has told you that you don't want to be humble because you hate yourself and equate humility with being worthless. I have spent hours and hours of my time for free showing you the truth and the light.

The difference between you and me is that while to you I'm a crazy leftist who should be attacked, to me you are a sad mental defective who is in no way responsible for your mental illness and a person I would love to help. But while you feel an insane need to prove that you are right and I am the wing nut, I don't feel that way about you. I show you the light but I have no need for you to understand it. You are free to do as you please.

I know that beneath your sickness is a wonderful human being with the exact same potential love of the universe that I feel. I offer you the answers to all your pain but you don't have to take it. I am a nobody. I have already experienced what it feels like to die emotionally. I was humiliated to death as a child but it's OK. Everything I was taught was a lie. Where you are jammed full of beliefs and opinions, I am empty. I have already died from the suffering of everything sacred that I lost.

When I was young I put up my beliefs before the microscope of honesty and all of them failed me. Everything I thought I knew I didn't know at all.

You may rationalize that you were much more deeply damaged than I was, but I doubt it. You have no idea how deeply you suffer any more than I did. What a fucking surprise that was.

So there you have it, my Dear Incorruptible, you were corrupted and intend to say that you are Incurable. Hehe, but you need to loath yourself and punish yourself and the world, doesn't bother me. I like you just like you are because I like me. I'm every bit as worthless as you are. But because I'm a crazy liberal and a wing nut extrordinaire, why one earth would I pay any attention to what I believe?
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Good info and the study falls in line with what a lot of folks I speak to believe about promoting greater understanding (inherently moderate) to achieve better results in political discussions. To actually achieve this in large scale across the country would require a paradigm shift in media reporting and politicians behavior and conduct towards one another. The catch is that paradigm shift needs to start with the masses, not the few currently in media and politics.

Tbh, without term limits and with money's main motivator to politics, a lot of leverage for change is removed from the masses and granted to special interests. A controlled message is a hard one to break.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,132
6,612
126
Heh. Your headset is beyond salvation, short of your world of Truthiness crumbling to dust around you followed by a miraculous epiphany.

Your psychic craving for superiority, righteousness & certainty speaks of deep emotional damage & insecurity. So long as you can deny such exists, refuse to address the underlying issues, you'll remain so.

It's sad, really, particularly when you and others are being ruthlessly exploited by forces beyond your comprehension.

When you feel worthless, and I believe we all do, being exploited by others creates a sense of self importance. You are at least a tool for others to use, not a complete nobody like we really feel. Also, belonging to a group of nut cases is better than being way out there and all alone. It's a great relief to be surrounded by other sick people. It helps to jack up the false ego that is hubris pride, and ignorant stupidity. The insane love company. Some red and yellow ochre and a few bird feathers and bark, and you can imagine them dancing around the bond fire late at night leaping high in the air, ginning up the demons that haunt them in a sacred war dance.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
It's funny how this thread has attracted responces from the same type of people it was refering to.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Now now, who on this forum constantly stresses the need for humility as the escape from the madness of certainty. Who has told you that you don't want to be humble because you hate yourself and equate humility with being worthless. I have spent hours and hours of my time for free showing you the truth and the light.

The difference between you and me is that while to you I'm a crazy leftist who should be attacked, to me you are a sad mental defective who is in no way responsible for your mental illness and a person I would love to help. But while you feel an insane need to prove that you are right and I am the wing nut, I don't feel that way about you. I show you the light but I have no need for you to understand it. You are free to do as you please.

I know that beneath your sickness is a wonderful human being with the exact same potential love of the universe that I feel. I offer you the answers to all your pain but you don't have to take it. I am a nobody. I have already experienced what it feels like to die emotionally. I was humiliated to death as a child but it's OK. Everything I was taught was a lie. Where you are jammed full of beliefs and opinions, I am empty. I have already died from the suffering of everything sacred that I lost.

When I was young I put up my beliefs before the microscope of honesty and all of them failed me. Everything I thought I knew I didn't know at all.

You may rationalize that you were much more deeply damaged than I was, but I doubt it. You have no idea how deeply you suffer any more than I did. What a fucking surprise that was.

So there you have it, my Dear Incorruptible, you were corrupted and intend to say that you are Incurable. Hehe, but you need to loath yourself and punish yourself and the world, doesn't bother me. I like you just like you are because I like me. I'm every bit as worthless as you are. But because I'm a crazy liberal and a wing nut extrordinaire, why one earth would I pay any attention to what I believe?

Just skipped right over that:D
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Just skipped right over that:D

Most of us do now. If any of you are actually interested in any of Moonbeam's posts, you can just kim over it and summerize as they are all the same.

You secretly hate yourself.
You have a brain defect.
You are slime of the earth.
I love you for it.

All of Moonbeam's posts are like Nickleback songs.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,132
6,612
126
Just skipped right over that:D

Of course you did. You would feel like a nobody if you let anything I say in. I know you better than you can possibly imagine. I am very willing to tell you things you ignore so you can feel important. You have so little in your life to enjoy.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Of course you did. You would feel like a nobody if you let anything I say in. I know you better than you can possibly imagine. I am very willing to tell you things you ignore so you can feel important. You have so little in your life to enjoy.

I Just skipped right over that as well :D

Every time I see a post from you I already know it's BS.