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Solved! How to have better WiFi?

retab12332

Member
May 7, 2020
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Given that the 5GHz band operates best when you're near to the router, is it possible to blanket the whole floor with that band? How do I get the same strong speed when on the other end of the house?
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,673
253
126
hi there, thankyou for the detailed response, I also need an ethernet cable for my desktop, does the ethernet cable have to connect to the FIRST router or it can connect to the second router aka the access point ?
It can be connected to either, but just recognize that ideally you would want to connect it to the router that is acting as the actual router (i.e. the one that connects to your ISP). If you have a choice, that is the way to go as otherwise you would be sharing bandwidth with any other device on the second router on the connection back to the first router (you only have 1 cable connecting the second router to the first, which means the max total bandwidth to all devices connected to the second router is limited by the max bandwidth of that connection back out to the internet).

Again, it isn't necessarily a problem or an issue, but in theory, the best performance from your desktop to the internet would be if it is connected physically to the router that connects to the internet. Best way to think of your network as lanes on highways. Your router forces all the connections on it to merge down to one lane that goes out (and on inbound traffic, think of it as going from one lane into many lanes). But connecting from one router/switch to another you only have one lane that goes between them, and thus all the multiple lanes that exist on the other side of that one lane connection have to merge down to that single lane before reaching the other device. It works fine with light traffic, but if you hit rush hour and there are lots of others all trying to go on that one lane between the routers, well, things will slow down significantly. Now there are ways to make things work better by having higher speed interconnects (10Gbe or more) between switches/routers which is typical in enterprise/business class networks (or the home enthusiast like myself). But again, it all comes down to how much traffic you need to deal with.
 
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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,673
253
126
Yes. That is called putting access points across a home and is one of the recommended ways to actually have better coverage. The other is using routers that can have their antenna replaced with slightly more powerful ones, but you need to be careful with that so you do not exceed laws in your location for transmitters on those frequencies. In the USA at least, the routers and access points needed to be certified by the government to not exceed the limitations that are imposed on using those frequencies and modifying them can obviously then cause the device no longer be certified. But there is no law against using multiple devices to extend the coverage, so that is why it is the recommended way.

That all said, I have not seen many cases of law enforcement searching down for transmitters that are only a little above the limits. Typically they are going after ones that are using the wrong frequencies and/or are in restricted locations (I believe some armed forces bases and scientific institutions have a restricted zone around them which covers some of the frequencies used by WiFi). So yes, using multiple access points connected via ethernet cable is the recommended way to extend WiFi across a home. Using WiFi extenders (i.e. wireless access points connected to other wireless access points over WiFi) simply adds to the WiFi congestion in the area. These may be perfectly fine for people who's next door neighbor is several hundred yards/meters away, but for all the others, you are now using multiple channels in the WiFi spectrum just to relay the information between the access points. Once all the unused spectrum is gone in the WiFi spectrum, you are then sharing it with other neighbors, meaning that all the devices on all the networks that are using the same spectrum share the total bandwidth of the spectrum and have to deal with each other for collisions (i.e. multiple devices that transmitted at the same time).
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
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The easy and inexpensive option, is to buy a range extender.
no! Range extenders adds latency.... it also halves your speed in some cases as it has to do duplex with the base.
Dedicated Access Points strategically placed throughout the site is always the best way to extend wifi coverage if budget allows..

Otherwise you could probably do a MESH which is basically Range Extenders on Steroids because you keep 1 SID though out all points, but id rather have dedicated wired Access points any day of the week.
 

retab12332

Member
May 7, 2020
63
0
11
Yes. That is called putting access points across a home and is one of the recommended ways to actually have better coverage. The other is using routers that can have their antenna replaced with slightly more powerful ones, but you need to be careful with that so you do not exceed laws in your location for transmitters on those frequencies. In the USA at least, the routers and access points needed to be certified by the government to not exceed the limitations that are imposed on using those frequencies and modifying them can obviously then cause the device no longer be certified. But there is no law against using multiple devices to extend the coverage, so that is why it is the recommended way.

That all said, I have not seen many cases of law enforcement searching down for transmitters that are only a little above the limits. Typically they are going after ones that are using the wrong frequencies and/or are in restricted locations (I believe some armed forces bases and scientific institutions have a restricted zone around them which covers some of the frequencies used by WiFi). So yes, using multiple access points connected via ethernet cable is the recommended way to extend WiFi across a home. Using WiFi extenders (i.e. wireless access points connected to other wireless access points over WiFi) simply adds to the WiFi congestion in the area. These may be perfectly fine for people who's next door neighbor is several hundred yards/meters away, but for all the others, you are now using multiple channels in the WiFi spectrum just to relay the information between the access points. Once all the unused spectrum is gone in the WiFi spectrum, you are then sharing it with other neighbors, meaning that all the devices on all the networks that are using the same spectrum share the total bandwidth of the spectrum and have to deal with each other for collisions (i.e. multiple devices that transmitted at the same time).
hi there, thankyou for the detailed response, I also need an ethernet cable for my desktop, does the ethernet cable have to connect to the FIRST router or it can connect to the second router aka the access point ?
 

retab12332

Member
May 7, 2020
63
0
11
no! Range extenders adds latency.... it also halves your speed in some cases as it has to do duplex with the base.
Dedicated Access Points strategically placed throughout the site is always the best way to extend wifi coverage if budget allows..

Otherwise you could probably do a MESH which is basically Range Extenders on Steroids because you keep 1 SID though out all points, but id rather have dedicated wired Access points any day of the week.
what routers do you recommend for using as access points ? my current router is from verizon and its like 7 years old.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
1,624
126
what routers do you recommend for using as access points ? my current router is from verizon and its like 7 years old.
this is completely dependant on budget.
Personally i like to build my own on Pfsense.
But i also like the ubiquiti line but it can get expensive if you start adding UAP's with a Gateway.
 

retab12332

Member
May 7, 2020
63
0
11
this is completely dependant on budget.
Personally i like to build my own on Pfsense.
But i also like the ubiquiti line but it can get expensive if you start adding UAP's with a Gateway.
I am looking for a budget router, and I have no idea what you just recommended, but it sounds like some advanced stuff.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
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your not going to get what your asking for with a small budget.
5ghz has a very short distance, and is horrible at penetration though walls.
If you want to blanket the entire lower floor, you will need multipul 5ghz access points placed thoughout zones, otherwise i would just not even bother with 5ghz except exclusive area's where you need that full speed.
 

retab12332

Member
May 7, 2020
63
0
11
your not going to get what your asking for with a small budget.
5ghz has a very short distance, and is horrible at penetration though walls.
If you want to blanket the entire lower floor, you will need multipul 5ghz access points placed thoughout zones, otherwise i would just not even bother with 5ghz except exclusive area's where you need that full speed.
I also have another question. I need an ethernet cable for my desktop, does the ethernet cable have to connect to the FIRST router or it can connect to the second router aka the access point ?
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
1,624
126
I also have another question. I need an ethernet cable for my desktop, does the ethernet cable have to connect to the FIRST router or it can connect to the second router aka the access point ?
ideally all routers should be connected to each other via ethernet cable.
But that opens a new can of issues in form of DHCP servers fighting for dominance, so you would need to disable DHCP on the secondary router so it acts as straight Access Point / Switch.

So basically:

Modem -> Router (DHCP ON) -> Router 2 (DHCP OFF or a completely different Subnet)

Router 2 would act as an access point / switch, while router 1 will do what a router does and also have DHCP.

You should do some research on youtube on how to connect 2 routers and make one an access point before you attempt to throw 2 routers on the same network.

Actually this thread should belong in networking and not motherboards.
Lemme get someone to move this thread over there for better advice pools.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,673
253
126
hi there, thankyou for the detailed response, I also need an ethernet cable for my desktop, does the ethernet cable have to connect to the FIRST router or it can connect to the second router aka the access point ?
It can be connected to either, but just recognize that ideally you would want to connect it to the router that is acting as the actual router (i.e. the one that connects to your ISP). If you have a choice, that is the way to go as otherwise you would be sharing bandwidth with any other device on the second router on the connection back to the first router (you only have 1 cable connecting the second router to the first, which means the max total bandwidth to all devices connected to the second router is limited by the max bandwidth of that connection back out to the internet).

Again, it isn't necessarily a problem or an issue, but in theory, the best performance from your desktop to the internet would be if it is connected physically to the router that connects to the internet. Best way to think of your network as lanes on highways. Your router forces all the connections on it to merge down to one lane that goes out (and on inbound traffic, think of it as going from one lane into many lanes). But connecting from one router/switch to another you only have one lane that goes between them, and thus all the multiple lanes that exist on the other side of that one lane connection have to merge down to that single lane before reaching the other device. It works fine with light traffic, but if you hit rush hour and there are lots of others all trying to go on that one lane between the routers, well, things will slow down significantly. Now there are ways to make things work better by having higher speed interconnects (10Gbe or more) between switches/routers which is typical in enterprise/business class networks (or the home enthusiast like myself). But again, it all comes down to how much traffic you need to deal with.
 
Last edited:

retab12332

Member
May 7, 2020
63
0
11
ideally all routers should be connected to each other via ethernet cable.
But that opens a new can of issues in form of DHCP servers fighting for dominance, so you would need to disable DHCP on the secondary router so it acts as straight Access Point / Switch.

So basically:

Modem -> Router (DHCP ON) -> Router 2 (DHCP OFF or a completely different Subnet)

Router 2 would act as an access point / switch, while router 1 will do what a router does and also have DHCP.

You should do some research on youtube on how to connect 2 routers and make one an access point before you attempt to throw 2 routers on the same network.

Actually this thread should belong in networking and not motherboards.
Lemme get someone to move this thread over there for better advice pools.
Thankyou for moving this thread. Please allow me to clarify. What I mean is if I using an ethernet cable for my desktop, do I connect the desktop to the first router using ethernet or the second router through ethernet?
 

Harry_Wild

Senior member
Dec 14, 2012
553
59
91
Just go out and buy a Wi-Fi 6 triband router with 2-3 pack. See my thread here for further details. You can setup the entire system by yourself in 10-20 minutes too. It non technical setup through the mobile device apps.
 

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