How to Handle Being Taken by a HVAC Company

pradeep1

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,099
1
81
I live in a house that is 22 years old. We have been dealing with the same HVAC company for the past 10-15 years, and they had been out over the years to fix stuff, such as a gas controller on my gas heater, my air conditioner, etc.

They normally are very good about what they charge and I never felt that I was ever taken, until today.

So my Honeywell gas heater goes out. I checked the pilot, it was not staying lit, so I changed the thermocouple. It worked for a while and then didn't. I tried another new Honeywell thermocouple, same problem....pilot would not stay lit. I figured either the gas controller was messed up or the transformer on my heater was gone.

So I called our trusty HVAC company to the house. Service man comes up at around 5:45 and takes a few minutes checking the "heat exchanger for cracks", etc. He then fiddles around and checks the transformer or whatever with a multimeter, etc. He then figures out the problem is the thermocouple. For some reason, a little brass fitting was missing and the thermocouples I was using were burning out because they were too far into the flame. He puts a new Honeywell thermocouple with that little brass fitting and then goes back to his truck to write up the charges.

I figured that it would be like $50-75 for coming and diagnosing the problem (1/2 hour worth of work) + the cost of the thermocouple ($10 at Home Depot + their markup ~ $25-30). I figured I'd have to shell out between $75.00 and $100.00 for this trip.

So he writes up the charges and it was $182.00, and $107.00 was for the thermocouple!

I was tight on time, but I asked him how he could charge $107 for a simple cheap thermocouple and he went on about how it was special, etc.

I didn't have time to argue, so I paid the man and then when I got back home later, went online to check if he was telling me the truth. The most expensive Honeywell thermocouple for their home gas heaters I could find was about $11.00. I've replaced at least 3 or 4 thermocouples in the past on that same gas heater using just standard store bought ones. No problems.

The service guy did nothing else other than this.

I was very disappointed, so I phoned the company and spoke to an after-hours manager. I asked him how his service guy could charge me so much for a simple thermocouple, and he gave me a spiel about the price being parts, labor, warranty, etc. I told him that I was not happy with this amount they charged me for that item, and I told him that if they charge like this, then I won't ever ask them to come out to the house to do any more work.

As I said, they have always been very fair in pricing their services and parts in the past.

The night manager said he'll leave a message for the owner so he can look at it tomorrow and get back to me.

Now, I don't mind paying for good service, but paying a huge markup on a cheap $10.00 thermocouple after I was already charged $75.00 for the guy to come out and diagnose my problem seems to be excessive.

What do you guys think....the serviceman who came out just stuck me with the highest price in his book for this item?

Thanks,

Pradeep




 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,032
125
106
Thats pretty much what I was charged for the same thing about 5 years ago. The guy doing it even apologized for how much he had to charge me. Mine was an extreme PITFA to do the way my furnace is setup but that was still a bit much. I've just fixed everything else thats died on it myself.
 

pradeep1

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,099
1
81
Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Thats pretty much what I was charged for the same thing about 5 years ago. The guy doing it even apologized for how much he had to charge me. Mine was an extreme PITFA to do the way my furnace is setup but that was still a bit much. I've just fixed everything else thats died on it myself.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. The fix was very simple...the thermocouple is in the front and is exposed. I can usually change one in less than five minutes.

 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,132
754
126
i've had a bad experience w/ a HVAC company, last winter, our heater crapped out the water pump or whatever on it failed and at the time i didn't know how to replace it. We called some hvac company from the phone book and they charged us over $800 to replace this thing.... it took no more than 2 hours .... i felt so ripped off, especially watching what he was doing (simple HW replacement any ATer could do, if they knew how =\ )
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
HVAC companies are the biggest ripoffs ever. One of my good friends has one and he even admits the markup is INSANE but since he charges less than most everyone around he does not feel bad. Just remember when your condenser fan goes out and you are charged $300-600 for the repair that the motor itself cost $50-75 and takes about 30 minutes to replace.
 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,032
125
106
Originally posted by: pradeep1
Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Thats pretty much what I was charged for the same thing about 5 years ago. The guy doing it even apologized for how much he had to charge me. Mine was an extreme PITFA to do the way my furnace is setup but that was still a bit much. I've just fixed everything else thats died on it myself.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. The fix was very simple...the thermocouple is in the front and is exposed. I can usually change one in less than five minutes.

Almost had to bend over again this year and this time it would have been without lube ;). My draft inducer motor, this, died and nobody could get a replacement. Its an OEM deal and the only people that could get their hands on it were contractors. I did finally find a place on the web that would sell it but that was still an insane $250 + shipping. I'd really hate to see what I would have been charged after mark-up and labor if I had had to call somebody in to replace the thing. I ended up going to a place that did nothing but repair electric motors and they were able to find an electric motor that was close to mine and just replaced the motor. Still cost me $150 in the end.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I had to finally call the HVAC company back...they still try to tell you to call back and press option '5'...which doesn't exist.

Anyway I spoke to a Manager there...tells me well yeah they wouldn't have been able to do that job for the $80 tuneup...it's $90/hr for repairs. I basically let him know HIS people told me it would be $80 and then tried the bait and switch at my residence telling me I needed to pay $3000 for a new unit when it took me 10 mins to clear it myself on Sunday.

He gave me crap that he'd have to take that money back from the tech and did I really want that. I told him his call...I can do a chargeback and contact BBB if he'd like.

The company doesn't know I work for a top 10 homebuilder here and that word will be around now.
 

pradeep1

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,099
1
81
Well I spoke to the service manager this morning and he told me that this is their rate for replacing thermocouples. As luck would have it, the furnace went out again, so they had to sent another more senior tech to fix it again. Once again, it was a thermocouple alignment issue the tech said.

When I told the service manager that I was not happy with the insane markup he was hitting me with for a cheap thermocouple, he said that if they cannot get the furnace fixed and they have to come back and change anything else out, that he'd apply the cost of the thermocouple to the cost of any other work they will do.

I figured it was not worth arguing any more. I just won't ever use them again and I will also make it a point to let anyone and everyone I know not to use them as well.

Do you guys think this warrants a complaint to the BBB? I haven't done anything like this before, but I thought this would be a good complaint to let other consumers know how they rip people off, especially since the tech did not talk about any costs until after he had done the work. Hell, if he had told me that it was a simple thermocouple alignment issue, I would have shown his ass to the door and fixed it myself, now knowing the problem.



 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
1
0
Maybe there was a little too much markup, but they need to buy a lot of the things and pay for a place to store them and track inventory. That has a cost to them.

Just let it go. Don't do business with them any more if it bothers you......and have fun finding another company that doesn't markup parts.
 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
1
0
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Maybe there was a little too much markup, but they need to buy a lot of the things and pay for a place to store them and track inventory. That has a cost to them.

Just let it go. Don't do business with them any more if it bothers you......and have fun finding another company that doesn't markup parts.

a little markup and 900% are different things.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
Originally posted by: pradeep1
I live in a house that is 22 years old. We have been dealing with the same HVAC company for the past 10-15 years, and they had been out over the years to fix stuff, such as a gas controller on my gas heater, my air conditioner, etc.

They normally are very good about what they charge and I never felt that I was ever taken, until today.

So my Honeywell gas heater goes out. I checked the pilot, it was not staying lit, so I changed the thermocouple. It worked for a while and then didn't. I tried another new Honeywell thermocouple, same problem....pilot would not stay lit. I figured either the gas controller was messed up or the transformer on my heater was gone.

So I called our trusty HVAC company to the house. Service man comes up at around 5:45 and takes a few minutes checking the "heat exchanger for cracks", etc. He then fiddles around and checks the transformer or whatever with a multimeter, etc. He then figures out the problem is the thermocouple. For some reason, a little brass fitting was missing and the thermocouples I was using were burning out because they were too far into the flame. He puts a new Honeywell thermocouple with that little brass fitting and then goes back to his truck to write up the charges.

I figured that it would be like $50-75 for coming and diagnosing the problem (1/2 hour worth of work) + the cost of the thermocouple ($10 at Home Depot + their markup ~ $25-30). I figured I'd have to shell out between $75.00 and $100.00 for this trip.

So he writes up the charges and it was $182.00, and $107.00 was for the thermocouple!

I was tight on time, but I asked him how he could charge $107 for a simple cheap thermocouple and he went on about how it was special, etc.

I didn't have time to argue, so I paid the man and then when I got back home later, went online to check if he was telling me the truth. The most expensive Honeywell thermocouple for their home gas heaters I could find was about $11.00. I've replaced at least 3 or 4 thermocouples in the past on that same gas heater using just standard store bought ones. No problems.

The service guy did nothing else other than this.

I was very disappointed, so I phoned the company and spoke to an after-hours manager. I asked him how his service guy could charge me so much for a simple thermocouple, and he gave me a spiel about the price being parts, labor, warranty, etc. I told him that I was not happy with this amount they charged me for that item, and I told him that if they charge like this, then I won't ever ask them to come out to the house to do any more work.

As I said, they have always been very fair in pricing their services and parts in the past.

The night manager said he'll leave a message for the owner so he can look at it tomorrow and get back to me.

Now, I don't mind paying for good service, but paying a huge markup on a cheap $10.00 thermocouple after I was already charged $75.00 for the guy to come out and diagnose my problem seems to be excessive.

What do you guys think....the serviceman who came out just stuck me with the highest price in his book for this item?

Thanks,

Pradeep

they are using the best buy model. ie: cables for $50 where you can get it at $1 at the Dollar Store. they think the customer is too stupid to know the value of the part.

find a new hvac company.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Originally posted by: pradeep1

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. The fix was very simple...the thermocouple is in the front and is exposed. I can usually change one in less than five minutes.

No offence, but if you know what a thermocouple is, where to buy it and how to change it why retain the services of a service company?

 

pradeep1

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,099
1
81
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: pradeep1

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. The fix was very simple...the thermocouple is in the front and is exposed. < I can usually change one in less than five minutes.

No offence, but if you know what a thermocouple is, where to buy it and how to change it why retain the services of a service company?

There was some other "alignment" issue supposedly with the thermocouple that was fixed by putting a small brass collar around the thermocouple. That was their final diagnosis.
 

pradeep1

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,099
1
81
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Maybe there was a little too much markup, but they need to buy a lot of the things and pay for a place to store them and track inventory. That has a cost to them.

Just let it go. Don't do business with them any more if it bothers you......and have fun finding another company that doesn't markup parts.

I own a business, I markup parts, I know how the game goes. There is a difference between showing up blind, changing out a thermocouple, and then charging me a $100 for the labor. I understand opportunity cost, the cost of coming to my place, and the labor, warranty, insurance, etc. the company has to undergo to service my heater.

But to come to my place, spend 15-20 minutes diagnosing the problem, then charging me for the trip and diagnosis ($75) and then another $107 for a $10 thermocouple seems silly.

Yes, you are right. I am going to drop it and never do business with them again. As for finding a company that does not mark up parts, I can probably find one that will charge me less than 970% markup on a commodity item.

Thanks for your help.

Pradeep
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Originally posted by: pradeep1

There was some other "alignment" issue supposedly with the thermocouple that was fixed by putting a small brass collar around the thermocouple. That was their final diagnosis.

So your flame safeguard controller was losing tack because the tip of the thermocouple was not close enough to the hot part of the flame?

 

pradeep1

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,099
1
81
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: pradeep1

There was some other "alignment" issue supposedly with the thermocouple that was fixed by putting a small brass collar around the thermocouple. That was their final diagnosis.

So your flame safeguard controller was losing tack because the tip of the thermocouple was not close enough to the hot part of the flame?

I don't know. I've been replacing thermocouples for years with no problems. I just follow the instructions as given in my Time-Life home repairs books. I let the pilot flame lap up just 1/2" pas the tip of the thermocouple head, and that has served me well for years.

Well the first time the service guy came up, he said that the thermocouple was too far into the flame and that it was "burning out", which I don't think is true. He put the collar on and moved the thermocouple back to barely touch the flame. It went out the next day. The second, more experienced tech. came out and refixed it to the original setting and told me that the thermocouple should be as I had placed it.

There is still no official diagnosis of why my heater was giving me trouble. They did check the gas valve, gas control switch, transformer, heat exchanger, etc. and they were all fine.

As of this morning, it is working okay.

Go figure. :)
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Did they connect the thermocouple to a millivoltmeter designed for t-couple testing?

Tip to flame will result in lockouts because of drafts, etc. I've seen t-couples burn before due to too lean of a burner setting but this is mostly in mobile stuff (R717 generator applications for small LPG powered fridges used in RV/boat applications) Most of them will switch to electric automatically when MFI/PTFI lockouts occur.

Of course you could slap a Fireye E1k in there with a UV sensor and be done with it! ;)
 

SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
2
76
Having spent some time in the HVAC industry I would say that is a bit unreasonable. Generally charges are done as follows:

Base rate for customer type (new residental, contract commercial, etc) and day of week (Saturdays may be 2x while sundays 3x depending on the customer)
Actual part cost + transportation costs (was it a part they had to get or one already stocked in the van) + at least 100% markup on cheaper items


In this case I would say the parts charge is unreasonable. I would expect an absolute max of $65 for the part based on what you have said.