how to get your car fixed/maintained without getting ripped off...

[rh71]

I bring this question up because cars are good money-makers... for repair shops/technicians. If you don't know what you're doing with the car, you must leave it in their hands and you're not likely to know if they're telling you the truth or ripping you off.

I'm not looking for answers like "I learned when I was younger so I do it myself" kind of answers. I'm looking for how a Joe Nobody off the street can go about getting his car fixed/maintained without getting ripped off. What are some rules to go by ? Is learning to do it yourself the ONLY option to avoid getting ripped off ?

Do repair shops EVER say they've done something like turn a rotor and NOT actually do it? Questions like these are a PITA especially when you don't even know what a rotor looks like... know what I mean ?

Some things I've heard:
- Avoid dealers... they usually charge up to 3x as much, but they DO know what they're doing since they see their own cars everyday
- Chains like PepBoys and Meineke should be avoided for price reasons. They do have good warranties on their work because they're established.
- Independent shops are a crap shoot. Find one you trust and stick with them... they also have decent prices for the most part. Trouble here is some of them haven't seen certain problems with make/models of cars before and they may not always have the brightest of techs.

Thoughts ? Tough choice, isn't it ?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Become a vet and check out their pets once in a while in exchange for free repairs.

That seems to work for one of my sisters at least

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: rh71
I bring this question up because cars are good money-makers... for repair shops/technicians. If you don't know what you're doing with the car, you must leave it in their hands and you're not likely to know if they're telling you the truth or ripping you off.

I'm not looking for answers like "I learned when I was younger so I do it myself" kind of answers. I'm looking for how a Joe Nobody off the street can go about getting his car fixed/maintained without getting ripped off. What are some rules to go by ? Is learning to do it yourself the ONLY option to avoid getting ripped off ?

Do repair shops EVER say they've done something like turn a rotor and NOT actually do it? Questions like these are a PITA especially when you don't even know what a rotor looks like... know what I mean ?

Your statement can be true for a lot of services and I don't understand why so many people demonize auto mechanics as being rip-off artists? I'm a little offended, being an auto mechanic, at your statement, but nonetheless I will help you... Click Here

 

[Rufio]

best bet.

ask your friends for who they go to...
and then find a shop and stick w/it.

my family's mechanic has gotten so mcuh business becasue of this -- he is honest, knows his stuff, and has decent prices. did i mention he is honest? we tell everyone to go to him. he likes our family a lot.

 

[gotsmack]

you just go around and get normal service stuff done at different shops. You should have an idea what the dealer charges and see how much the independant shop charges in comparison. I only take my car back to the dealer now. The independants in my area are a bunch of crooks, but if a new shop opens in my area I'll give them a try.

 

[TheCorm]

Find one you trust and stick with them

Yup, that's the thing....I have used the same independent mechanic since I started driving.

Jamie

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
Your statement can be true for a lot of services and I don't understand why so many people demonize auto mechanics as being rip-off artists? I'm a little offended, being an auto mechanic, at your statement, but nonetheless I will help you... Click Here

I apologize if I've offended you or other auto mechanics. While what you say about many other services being a potential rip-off also is true... I think cars are one of the more common examples. For one, not many services cost you a few hundred dollars for a simple part while at the same time, MUST be repaired in order for continued use. At the same time, there are hundreds of these parts that no common Joe is ever going to understand. We must leave it up to the expert to tell us whether it'll cost us $100 or $2000 (which recently happened to me because of a "possible" slipping tranny. It also costs $X to maintain a working car. We're constantly throwing money into them because our livelihood depends on them. Because of this, mechanics "CAN" cheat us and sometimes do. Would you send your 18-year old daughter to the shop and expect her not to be lied to about her car problem even once in five tries ? The odds are, it'll happen. I don't know if I'm shooting myself in the foot here, and I'd like to avoid generalizations as much as possible, but I've heard it happen too often to people who simply don't look like they know how a car works.

The same cannot be said for others such as computer problems (when something goes wrong, 90% of us on AT immediately know the solution and the parts are cheaper and cheaper). Take real estate also... they may be lying to us to get a bigger commission, but it's not as often that we go and buy a new house, so we accept a certain amount of risk when we deal with agents.

That's as best as I can explain the concern to you. It's not a matter of "all techs are bad"... it's just that the industry as a whole is very discomforting to the avg Joe when you have "us" by the proverbial balls so often.

BTW, thank you for batinfo.com ... it looks to be a very good resource.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Look for mechanics with certification. Granted, that doesn't mean that there may not be shady ethics going on, but I feel a lot more confident that someone who's devoted money and effort to being a good mechanic is going to be more likely to actually attempt to redress problems in order to build a clientele than try to bilk me as much as possible before I twig to something fishy going on.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: rh71
I bring this question up because cars are good money-makers... for repair shops/technicians. If you don't know what you're doing with the car, you must leave it in their hands and you're not likely to know if they're telling you the truth or ripping you off.

I'm not looking for answers like "I learned when I was younger so I do it myself" kind of answers. I'm looking for how a Joe Nobody off the street can go about getting his car fixed/maintained without getting ripped off. What are some rules to go by ? Is learning to do it yourself the ONLY option to avoid getting ripped off ?

Do repair shops EVER say they've done something like turn a rotor and NOT actually do it? Questions like these are a PITA especially when you don't even know what a rotor looks like... know what I mean ?

Some things I've heard:
- Avoid dealers... they usually charge up to 3x as much, but they DO know what they're doing since they see their own cars everyday
- Chains like PepBoys and Meineke should be avoided for price reasons. They do have good warranties on their work because they're established.
- Independent shops are a crap shoot. Find one you trust and stick with them... they also have decent prices for the most part. Trouble here is some of them haven't seen certain problems with make/models of cars before and they may not always have the brightest of techs.

Thoughts ? Tough choice, isn't it ?

The best way i know is to go to someone you know or trust.

DAMN if roger lived near me, he'd get ALL my business.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Look for mechanics with certification. Granted, that doesn't mean that there may not be shady ethics going on, but I feel a lot more confident that someone who's devoted money and effort to being a good mechanic is going to be more likely to actually attempt to redress problems in order to build a clientele than try to bilk me as much as possible before I twig to something fishy going on.

that's like looking for IT guys with Certs.

Certs don't mean a whole lot.

 

[codeyf]

I'll do all the research I can on the problem before I take it to a shop to get fixed. If it is something I feel remotely comfortable doing on my own, I'll do it. On my Honda, I always preferred taking it to a dealership. The couple times I've gone to an independant, I've gotten BS somehow/someway.

Example #1:

Service Engine light comes on in my '94 Jimmy. Idles rough, serious lag when accelerating. Take it to a shop, pay $48 bux to have them hook it up to a machine and tell me what's wrong. Bad EGR valve, common problem. I took it in to them about 11am. They said they could have it done by the time I get off work (3:30pm). The EGR valve is going to cost me roughly $350, and tack on about another $100 in labor. I tell them I'll call them back so I can check with the wife. I talk to the wife, she says it's fine. In the mean time, I hit up carparts.com. See the EGR I need for $186, the gasket for $4. Shipping is $10, but I find a 20% off coupon. I then start hitting up Chevy/GMC S-Series forums. Find out depending on your experience, it's a 15-30 minute job to DIY. Boo yah. Place my order for the part, call the shop and say I'll be by to pick up the truck about 4.

I did ask them why the part cost them so much when I could get it for near half the price. They questioned me as to wether or not it was a "Genuine AC Delco EGR" to which I showed them a picture of the product that I printed. They were dumbfounded. Of the two guys that run the shop, one's answer was "The distrubutor charges that much for the same reason we cost $70/hr to work on a car".

Anyway, I've got the part sitting in my garage. I threw in a $10 bottle of fuel system cleaner in to the car (it had been sitting for almost 6 months prior to my getting it) and it fixed all the problems.


Example #2:

Took my then baby '95 Accord to a (different) local shop. The driver door is big and heavy, and sometimes doesn't close all the way. I basically ran the battery down and shot the starter from it not closing all the way so many times. I tow it in to the shop, I tell them I'm almost positive it's the starter. Get a call later in the day. "Yeah, you need a new battery cuz this one is really low. I have a xxxx battery that costs $185 that I'll put it in there." I asked him if he could just recharge the existing battery. He says, "uh, well, yeah. but it'll take an hour or two for me to take it out, stick it in the charger, then put it back in." I told him, to do it. It was a fairly new battery, and had just been drained. It was not the problem. Get a call back a couple hours later, "Yeah, it does need a new starter. gonna cost just under $100 total to fix." Ok cool, I'm happy. Get a call a little while later, "It's all done. It ended up costing more though. total is approx $180. The starter cost more for your engine because it has VTEC." At this point, I was done, this dood was obviously trying to make up for not selling me a new battery. I know enough about cars to know that was a load of BS. But the repairs had already been done, I needed my car, I just deemed the situation a WTFE. After the fact I called my Aunt in Hawaii. She's been a Service manager at Phleuger Honda for 10+ years. Sure enough, the starter is the same between VTEC and non-VTEC models of my car. Vowed never to take it to that shop again.


Anyway, I'm rambling. That's my personal experience.

 

[ScoobMaster]

A simple thing to do is ask them to show you (if applicable) what they repaired/replaced. Have them point out where the new parts are installed (again if this is an internal engine component it is obviously impossible - but the gaskets and such will be visibly new). Make sure to ask for all the replaced/broken parts back (if for no other reason just to verify that they were indeed replaced and were in a condition to warrant replacement). For any work that does not involve physically adding or changing parts (alignment, diagnostics, adjustments, etc) ask for data printouts from the diagnostic/alignment machines (again this is proof that the work was done correctly and NEEDED to be done).

Honest mechanincs/repair shops should not have a problem with you asking all of the above (as long as you are friendly and polite about it). Any hesitance to show work or parts or printouts should raise a red flag.

 

[Ornery]

Don't get too huffy about consumers calling auto repair shops crooks, because there are many bad ones, and they do cast a shadow over the whole industry. If you've ever seen TV investigative reports on these places, you'd scream. Hell, I think it was a report in Reader's Digest that found over 80% of the shops they took a car to, ripped them off or misdiagnosed the problem... pathetic!

As was mentioned, find a mechanic you can trust and stick with them. I've had the same guy for twenty years. I do as much work on my cars as possible, but I have him to take care of the sticky problems. I don't own a torch, so he gets the work that requires one of those!

I recently was told about the plus side of having a dealership do diagnostic work. They see cars like yours on a regular basis and know its idiosyncrasies. They have a better chance of diagnosing the real problem the first time. I've yet to try this theory.

I won't bother doing certain work on my car, like exhaust systems. We've got places around here, like Rainbow Muffler, who do this work cheaper than I can buy the parts for. Midas or Speedy Muffler aren't even in the same price ball park as these guys.

It's best to do your homework and know parts prices before having it serviced. Hell, it wouldn't kill you to learn a little more than changing a flat either. No reason why people can't still change belts, hoses, plugs & wires, batteries, filters, oil and grease or even throw some brake pads on. There's not a whole lot more we can do with these newer cars, but the few things we can do aren't that hard.

 

[blahblah99]

The BEST way to NOT get ripped off by car mechanics and shops is to learn the basics of how a car operate. If you bring your car into a shop and say the engine's not working, that's just like bringing in your computer for repairs and saying it doesn't turn on.

Remember that auto repair shops are there to maximize their profits. So dropping your car off for them to repair a rough idle problem doesn't neccesarily mean that they will get to the root of the problem. They may put a bandage on it.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
A simple thing to do is ask them to show you (if applicable) what they repaired/replaced. Have them point out where the new parts are installed (again if this is an internal engine component it is obviously impossible - but the gaskets and such will be visibly new). Make sure to ask for all the replaced/broken parts back (if for no other reason just to verify that they were indeed replaced and were in a condition to warrant replacement). For any work that does not involve physically adding or changing parts (alignment, diagnostics, adjustments, etc) ask for data printouts from the diagnostic/alignment machines (again this is proof that the work was done correctly and NEEDED to be done).

Honest mechanincs/repair shops should not have a problem with you asking all of the above (as long as you are friendly and polite about it). Any hesitance to show work or parts or printouts should raise a red flag.

You bring up an interesting point because I've often wondered if what I pay for their work is enough for me to dig more than what they simply tell me on the phone. I don't want to seem like a mistrusting customer by 2nd guessing what they've told me - after all, I was the one who brought it to them.

Do techs have any problems with providing proof of work done and taking time-out to walk me through certain things done? Some of them seem entirely too busy with other cars to even want to consider this. What exactly does my money buy me ?

 

[rh71]

... all these YACT threads lately... I think there should be some night course somewhere at your local library or something which teaches the basic car repair/maintenance stuff...

Just like most of us know the basics for computer hardware... how to replace drives and format them... etc.

 

[Banana]

It's how the economy works--The mechanic rips off the computer technician, who then rips off the accountant, who then rips off the doctor, who then rips off the mechanic.

 

[rh71]

So how does the avg. Schmoe (I mean Joe) off the street fit into that equation ?

 

[freebee]

Most shops are probably unethical with their business practices. Quite simply, with so many shops charging for non-existant repairs, incredible markups on parts, and/or replacing parts that don't need replacing.....a good, honest shop simply can't compete with the dishonest ones.

 

[abaez]

We should start a thread where people can go and see where the good mechanics/dealers in their area are. It might be tough for people living in smaller cities but the major metro areas would be nice (I live in socal and I'm wondering where a good indie mechanic can be found)

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: rh71
I'm not looking for answers like "I learned when I was younger so I do it myself" kind of answers. I'm looking for how a Joe Nobody off the street can go about getting his car fixed/maintained without getting ripped off. What are some rules to go by ? Is learning to do it yourself the ONLY option to avoid getting ripped off ?

Do repair shops EVER say they've done something like turn a rotor and NOT actually do it? Questions like these are a PITA especially when you don't even know what a rotor looks like... know what I mean ?

Buy the Haynes manual for your car and do the repair yourself. It's a lot easier than you think.

 

[Quixfire]

Most local community college teaches basic automotive courses, my college teaches several on how to diagnosis and repair a vehicle.

 

[Kemosabe1447]

Just a few things I know of are, mechanics always charge higher on women, because they figure they dont know what they are talking about...two if you have an idea on whats wrong then you should say it or else they think that you know nothing of what your talking about, and set a price limit because they want your business and if you have a limit then they wont want to go much higher then that.

 

[DrPizza]

I think it would be hilarious to audit a garage on the grounds of a class action suit brought on by their customers..... Compare the hourly wages paid to the hours of labor paid for by the customers... I'll bet that for an 8 hour workday for 1 guy, some garages are managing to charge for 16 hours of labor.

Anyway, look at it the way I did: Last summer, I knew almost nothing about car brakes. Something happened, front passenger side seized up, car couldn't move; finally managed to get it in reverse and got it parked. Walked to garage (Monroe), I said it felt like the pad broke or something, it had been making a sound from that side for about 1 day. They said it sounded like I had a sticking caliper, which caused the pad to wear really quickly, and I would have to replace the front calipers and pads, and possibly rotors. They worked out the price for me; 600ish? I can't remember the exact price. I was going back to my car, and was going to drive it in reverse to the shop. Walked by an Autozone on the way.
"How much is a caliper?"
"What kind of car?"
..... "do I really *have* to replace them both?" "No, but it's usually recommended.. If you do, I recommend getting a loaded set." *sounds expensive!* "what's that??" "It's both calipers with the pads already installed. All you have to do is put them on and connect the brake line. " "How much?" "72" "apiece?" "No, for both."

I looked at it this way: I considered the savings as getting PAID 4 or 5 hundred dollars to learn how to change my own brakes. It took me 7 hours to do the job myself; 1-2 hours of work, and a lot of walking to the hardware store for things like 19mm socket, then another trip: 17mm socket, and another trip and another. Later that summer, I got paid a lot more. Monroe (again) quoted my wife over 700 for her brakes on a Mazda 626. It cost me under $35. (rotors were just fine.)

 

[Ranger X]

Imagine if we brought their ethics to our homes when asked to fix a computer. Bling Bling!

"That doesn't sound like a hard drive problem. It sounds like you need to replace the motherboard, CPU, and the memory as well."