How to explain the lack of Homosexuals in the Star Trek Universe? The Eugenic's Wars?

[CZroe]

The same people who produced TNG and Voyager had lots of gay stuff in the books. One Voyager novel in particular introduced so many gay characters that I was getting angry at the writer for being a no-talent hack who seemed to think making bit characters gay was an easy way to make them interesting and that the "twist" never gets old even when used for 75% of the characters that weren't previously established.

Ugh. Why do you need to tell me that Tuvok suspected and later observed those two being gay when they were stuck in the prison camp even though it has no relevance to the story and you didn't dwell on any of the heterosexuals being heterosexual?! Stupid and pointless.

 

[disappoint]

Oh good. Insinuating I'm gay. Very clever. You must be proud.

EDIT: But be honest.. You're pretty impressed I was able to find Frodo's great great grandma in about 30 seconds.

I did not insinuate you are gay. The affliction I'm referring to is the very one I've been talking about: escaping reality. People escape reality for many reasons. Life can be hard. Everyone runs into difficulties in life at some point in their lives. What specific difficulties you face in life is personal to you, I don't judge, I don't pry and I certainly don't admonish or tease anyone of their personal problems.

You didn't find Frodo's great great grandma in 30 seconds anymore than a 4 year old knows what gravity is just because he can say the word. A label is not an understanding, it's just a label. She still doesn't exist. Even if someone wrote a story about her something will always be missing.

Suppose I said Geordi Laforge's great great great great grandmother? Or if I asked what she did for a living? How she died? How many relationships she had? What was her favorite color? Her favorite food? What adversity did she face? You missed the point if you think you won some kind of imaginary debate points by Googling a fictional family tree of a fictional character.

 

[SirStev0]

Frodo's Great Great Great Grandmother -
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Ivy_Goodenough

#tolkienwasapoorchoice #hisdayjobwaswritingdictionaries #hewasasuperanalretentivenerd #andthiswasinthemajorbookseriesnotsomesuperobscurereferencefromaforgettablecollection
#bro

 

[SirStev0]

I did not insinuate you are gay. The affliction I'm referring to is the very one I've been talking about: escaping reality. People escape reality for many reasons. Life can be hard. Everyone runs into difficulties in life at some point in their lives. What specific difficulties you face in life is personal to you, I don't judge, I don't pry and I certainly don't admonish or tease anyone of their personal problems.

You didn't find Frodo's great great grandma in 30 seconds anymore than a 4 year old knows what gravity is just because he can say the word. A label is not an understanding, it's just a label. She still doesn't exist. Even if someone wrote a story about her something will always be missing.

Suppose I said Geordi Laforge's great great great great grandmother? Or if I asked what she did for a living? How she died? How many relationships she had? What was her favorite color? Her favorite food? What adversity did she face? You missed the point if you think you won some kind of imaginary debate points by Googling a fictional family tree of a fictional character.

You're really going to come on to the off-topic forum (a forum!) of a technology site and critique someone for getting over analytical about a factious universe? Have you ever been in the Saga of Ice and Fire thread?? Its like 50+ pages of over-analysis and debate.

You done thread crapping/derailing yet?

 

[disappoint]

Still mad bro? Someday you might have the courage to face that which angers you. Until then, have fun with your escape from reality mired in all that fiction.

 

[bradly1101]

There's only one thing worse than nerds, gay nerds!...oh, wait...

 

[SirStev0]

BTW, this has been by far the best response of the whole thread. I laughed out loud in real life.
Didn't have a chance to respond secondary to the derailer.

 

[disappoint]

You're really going to come on to the off-topic forum (a forum!) of a technology site and critique someone for getting over analytical about a factious universe?

Ya rly.

Have you ever been in the Saga of Ice and Fire thread?? Its like 50+ pages of over-analysis and debate.

No I haven't.

You done thread crapping/derailing yet?

Only my first post of this thread might be considered off topic of the OP because it was a jab at religion.

What's really funny is you were fine with that one. You got bent out of shape when I answered your question more seriously. When I was on topic.

It is you who has derailed his own thread. Instead of answering the other posters and conversing with them and ignoring me, you chose to interact with me the most. Do you know why that is?

 

[Ruptga]

Didn't read all your fanfic, but it's far more likely that the closest we ever got was this (and later this, which doesn't count because everyone loves hot lesbians) was because the suits and writers in charge of these shows in the early to mid 90s were uncomfortable with actually addressing that part of our culture. TOS was subversive for its day, but by the time TNG came around the franchise was a lot more mainstream and commercial.

 

[SirStev0]

Ya rly.



No I haven't.


Only my first post of this thread might be considered off topic of the OP because it was a jab at religion.

What's really funny is you were fine with that one. You got bent out of shape when I answered your question more seriously. When I was on topic.

It is you who has derailed his own thread. Instead of answering the other posters and conversing with them and ignoring me, you chose to interact with me the most. Do you know why that is?

Sorry your "on-topic" statement was that you feel people who evaluate and analyze fiction are "inflicted" with an obsession with the imaginary and use it as an escape from reality.

No. Fucking. Shit.
That's one of the many ways people approach fiction. Some people see it as entertainment (one escape). Some people see it as a way to pass time (another escape). Some allow it to expand complex thoughts and themes in a different environment (another escape). Some obsess over minutiae and create obsessive documentations of it (another escape, see the various wiki's made for countless fictions).

And some like to expand on a discrepancy they observe in the canon and try to find a reasonable, possible explanation with the available information. That's what I did.


Or is it ... from your point of view imaginary stories (fiction, a huge fucking collection of works spawning time) are either worthless or merely for entertainment I guess.

So either your a fucking idiot trying to use big words like "afflicts" (incorrectly) or just a fucking idiot dismissing the entire collective works of fiction.
That statement would be non-fiction.

Either way... completely different topic. You just wanted to shit on something - the definition of thread crapping.

Also you don't know shit about Tolkien. I figured that out from your posts as well.

 

[Paratus]

Interesting take on why Star Trek didn't have a gay character on TOS by George Takei.

http://roygbiv.jezebel.com/george-takei-star-treks-audience-wasnt-ready-for-a-gay-1723105694

 

[SirStev0]

Didn't read all your fanfic, but it's far more likely that the closest we ever got was this (and later this, which doesn't count because everyone loves hot lesbians) was because the suits and writers in charge of these shows in the early to mid 90s were uncomfortable with actually addressing that part of our culture. TOS was subversive for its day, but by the time TNG came around the franchise was a lot more mainstream and commercial.

I mentioned that somewhere in the sea of thread-crapping that TOS was the first show to show an interracial kiss, but Gene Rod was dead before TNG and commercial interests took over, against his wishes.

I was trying to retcon
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity, for fuckhead who thinks he is smarter than all of the saps who dare to "enjoy" fiction).
the reason as a lose of human genetic uniqueness in sexuality (after a War that specifically dealt with genetic engineering and the dangers thereof).

And if I'm not mistaken, both those episodes dealt with Alien Species, not humans.

And, of course, Lesbo Alien Space scenes go over much better with a dominantly male 18-30 audience.

 

[disappoint]

Still angry. Even more so now. Have you ever seen how angry drug addicts get in recovery? They suffer from withdrawals. Dealing with reality is painful for you. I don't wish for you to hurt. If it makes you feel better you can read some fiction instead of my posts.

I used afflicts correctly. https://www.google.com/search?q=afflicts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Feel better soon.

 

[shortylickens]

There was a little homosexuality in Voyager and some more in Enterprise.

Having said that, TNG dealt head on with issues like transexuality in 1992, something nobody else would even consider touching.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outcast_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

So I think the idea is that what we call non-standard sexuality today has become so common in the future its not even mentioned.

Also the fact that straight men and straight women can work together and not start fucking would be a more futuristic look at things.

 

[SirStev0]

Still angry. Even more so now. Have you ever seen how angry drug addicts get in recovery? They suffer from withdrawals. Dealing with reality is painful for you. I don't wish for you to hurt. If it makes you feel better you can read some fiction instead of my posts.

I used afflicts correctly. https://www.google.com/search?q=afflicts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Feel better soon.

Really getting desperate aren't you? Isn't it bedtime yet?

P.S. my true favorite escape from reality is arguing with shitbags on the internet. It made my night crushing every one of your pathetic arguments.
Especially the Frodo thing. I really enjoyed that. I haven't seen someone pull something so well from their ass and then immediately fall face first into it in a very long time.
I mean come on.. You picked Tolkien as someone who "didn't write down ridiculous detail in fiction because it wasn't important to the story".
I mean serious question. Have you ever read anything?

I especially like that you're now resorting to the classic internet ... "Lol, your mad, bro. Lol I trolled you, bro. Lol, bro"

You'll have to try better than that. See the sig sucka.
"When you have no basis for argument, abuse the plantiff."
It only works if you're good at it, son.
I'm done with you. Thread crap elsewhere. Next.

 

[Jaskalas]

Do you have any idea how old these shows are?
The original series had the first interracial kiss on TV.

You have lost perspective of where our culture stood at the time.

 

[SirStev0]

Also the fact that straight men and straight women can work together and not start fucking would be a more futuristic look at things.

"Never"

 

[SirStev0]

Do you have any idea how old these shows are?
The original series had the first interracial kiss on TV.

You have lost perspective of where our culture stood at the time.

I mentioned that somewhere earlier, but the topic was derailed for a good bit, and got lost.

I'm just presenting a possible retcon explanation for it.

 

[shortylickens]

Do you have any idea how old these shows are?
The original series had the first interracial kiss on TV.

You have lost perspective of where our culture stood at the time.

American TV.
It was already seen plenty in Europe.

 

[Charmonium]

Interesting take on why Star Trek didn't have a gay character on TOS by George Takei.

http://roygbiv.jezebel.com/george-takei-star-treks-audience-wasnt-ready-for-a-gay-1723105694

That makes a lot of sense. Out of curiosity I searched for gay tv shows and it looks like the first one with an openly gay character was Hot l Baltimore in 1975. Soap - where Billy Crystal played the gay role was the second in 1977.

http://www.infoplease.com/entertainment/gays-in-pop-culture-timeline.html

But we didn't see the first homosexual kiss until 1991. So even in the 90's this would seem to have been a controversial issue.

I don't think you can argue that the Eugenic Wars eliminated gayness. Since the evidence for there being a genetic basis I don't think existed at the time it would have been imprudent for writers to assume that. Even today, I think most people believe it's a choice.

Besides that, even if sexual preference is hard coded (which is very different from a genetic predisposition), I doubt that a single gene would control it. It's would probably be more like intelligence where you have hundreds of genes that influence it.

 

[CZroe]

American TV.

It was already seen plenty in Europe.

Not even:

The episode features a kiss between James T. Kirk (William Shatner) and Lt. Uhura (Nichelle Nichols) which has been incorrectly cited as the first scripted interracial kiss on television.[1][2] In fact, it wasn't even the first interracial kiss on Star Trek, as Kirk had kissed part-Asian BarBara Luna in Mirror Mirror the year before. Much earlier, in July 1964, an interracial kiss between a White man and a Black woman was broadcast when Louise Mahler (Joan Hooley) and Doctor Giles Farmer (John White) kissed in an episode of Emergency – Ward 10. Another kiss occurred in 1966, when The Wild Wild West, James T. West (Robert Conrad) and Princess Ching Ling (Pilar Seurat), shared a White and Asian interracial kiss ("The Night the Dragon Screamed", aired 1966 Jan 14). In the same year on I Spy, Kelly Robinson (Robert Culp) and Sam (France Nuyen) also had a white and Asian interracial kiss ("The Tiger", aired 1966 Jan 5). There had also been a kiss between Sammy Davis, Jr. and Nancy Sinatra on Movin' With Nancy in 1967, a year before "Plato's Stepchildren" aired.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato's_Stepchildren#Production_and_reception

 

[SirStev0]

American TV.
It was already seen plenty in Europe.

Two things. Since they've popped up a few times.
1. Yes, I know Star Trek has had gay aliens. And episodes that were thinly veiled to discuss homosexuality. There has never been a Gay Human Character (if you don't believe me, google it).

2. Yes, I also know that when they write the show, especially back in '92, they were likely more worried about making money than social progress and explaining why a highly advanced society that embraces all races and nationalities doesn't have homosexuals. Also I know 'Merica wasn't ready for gays yet (early 90's).



3. (I lied when I wrote only 2 things) I merely am attempting to retcon this discrepancy (as is done in scifi/fantasy/comics frequently).
I know the real reasons they did what they did.

I am presenting a theoretical reason that could follow the fictitious canon.

 

[Jaskalas]

Also... note how "remarkable" it was that a woman got to be Captain.

 

[SirStev0]

Also... note how "remarkable" it was that a woman got to be Captain.

I think it was more impressive that they hired a woman as the lead character of a show (that wasn't a soap opera or Golden Girls).

I noticed TNG had some Women Admirals, but they were never for more than an episode or more.

But as far as lead characters, there was Deanna (whines/has huge knockers) and Crusher (mother of Wesley, automatically makes her less likable).
And Poor Tosha got smoked out of no where.

 

[disappoint]

I mean serious question. Have you ever read anything?

I haven't read much fiction lately. I read a lot of non-fiction these days. Do you think that is one of my faults? That I have a problem? That I would be a better person if I read more fiction aside from posts on internet forums?

Do you suppose anyone has noticed I answer you seriously without insulting you despite all of your angry posts? Have you noticed?