How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers with Stadiums

[Nebor]

Publically funded stadiums are a bad deal for the public. They've always been a bad deal. The fact is that local politicians are easily swayed by public opinion, campaign donations from the owners\construction companies, and free box (or swimming pool) seats.

Every time a new publically funded pro sports arena is proposed, all the local newspapers and TV news do a series of reports showing what a bad deal they are for the public, and yet they always pass anyway. lol @ Cincinatti having to sell a hospital to pay for the Bengals.

 

[Bock]

If the cities & the tax payers in it have the money, let them do it. Sure the money could be better spent elsewhere {but that's between city council & the tax payers}

 

[dank69]

Nah, what would help my grump is for people to stop being so stupid. No chance of that unfortunately.

Though I've heard enemas can be... arousing... :whiste:

You should start by not being stupid yourself. The original complaint wasn't implying that Democrats don't engage in this behavior. It was that the GOP rails against welfare for the poor while doling out welfare for the rich.

 

[GrumpyMan]

I don't know of many middle class families that can afford to take their 2 kids to an NFL event. What is the average cost per ticket $100.00 and plus parking and food a family of 4 could spend 6 or 7 bills for one game. Or have the prices gone down some? Sport of the wealthy for the wealthy paid by average Joe.

 

[BoberFett]

You should start by not being stupid yourself. The original complaint wasn't implying that Democrats don't engage in this behavior. It was that the GOP rails against welfare for the poor while doling out welfare for the rich.

Oh, hey there idiot.

Democrats are for welfare for people and not for corporations. So why would some dipshit poster go on about the Republicans, who we KNOW are in it for the corporations, rather than the Democrats who SAY they're against corporations, but are in fact giving corporations massive welfare.

No matter how you look at it, you and Sonikku are stupid.

 

[dank69]

Oh, hey there idiot.

Democrats are for welfare for people and not for corporations. So why would some dipshit poster go on about the Republicans, who we KNOW are in it for the corporations, rather than the Democrats who SAY they're against corporations, but are in fact giving corporations massive welfare.

No matter how you look at it, you and Sonikku are stupid.

I don't know why you feel the need to make it about Democrats. Contrary to what you may believe, neither Sonikku nor I believe Democrats are perfect. Sonikku was just pointing out how fucked up it is for Republicans to not want to give welfare to people that actually need it while giving it to people that are insanely rich.

 

[Scarpozzi]

There will always be winners and losers. The size of the market and success of the team is going to make a huge difference in whether or not there is a ROI. Tax revenues are going to be difficult to accurately gauge because so many of the dollars are indirect.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't know why you feel the need to make it about Democrats. Contrary to what you may believe, neither Sonikku nor I believe Democrats are perfect. Sonikku was just pointing out how fucked up it is for Republicans to not want to give welfare to people that actually need it while giving it to people that are insanely rich.

And it's EVEN MORE FUCKED UP for people who claim they're for the people and not corporations to then TURN AROUND AND GIVE TAX DOLLARS TO BILLIONAIRES.

I'm not sure how much more simple I can make it for you. I'm making it about Democrats because that imbecile was attempting to make it about Republicans. Had he not typed that one word, I wouldn't have said a thing about Democrats.

 

[waggy]

almost always when you have PROFESSIONAL sports teams they tend to fuck the city over. there are very few that are profitable.

No city should be giving huge tax breaks to them. but city officals area easily swayed inot doing it.

This is NOT a gop or dem thing either. Both sides are fucking idiotic when this comes up.

 

[chowderhead]

There will always be winners and losers. The size of the market and success of the team is going to make a huge difference in whether or not there is a ROI. Tax revenues are going to be difficult to accurately gauge because so many of the dollars are indirect.

exactly. I think a baseball stadium gets more bang for the buck as they have more games/use and can more often be in an urban area as opposed to locating a huge football stadium miles away in some random suburb where everyone drives to the game, watch the game and then leave after the game. A sports stadium can bring economic revitalization to areas of a city if planned correctly. ATT Park (almost exclusively privately funded) in San Francisco opened up that area to a lot of new development. People take public transportation, walk around the area and maybe eat at one of the local restaurants or bars.

There is also a prestige aspect which is difficult to gauge. San Jose is larger than San Francisco by population but San Francisco is seen as much more cosmopolitan in part because of the sporting team. The Warriors are planning to move to that area in part because of the success of ATT park. The less said about the FAIL that is the 49ers and their stadium .. the better however. They just have horrible owners.

 

[OutHouse]

owners keep all ticket sales, concessions sales, NFL gets profits from logo sales, owners keeps monies from broadcast rights. cities that have a pro football stadium get very little in return.

In all seriousness, I think this is a little overblown. There are some cities that are stupid as rocks, but you need to account for more than just the cost of the stadium. Just think of how much state/local tax revenue is generated for all of the things revolving around a successful sports team:

1. Stadiums selling out 100,000+ tickets every game, all year long. Used for other events as well (concerts, rodeo, monster trucks, etc.. etc.. etc..)
2. Drinks/Food/Concessions at the events. We all know how fun it is paying $15 for a bud-light or $10 for a coke.
3. Advertisements / Business Relations
4. Sports Memorabilia - Sold everywhere from Walmart to Target to Department stores with the team logo plastered everywhere.
5. Taxes on the players. If you have a $100 million dollar player, guess what? He has to pay state taxes with that paycheck.

 

[OutHouse]

I think a baseball stadium gets more bang for the buck as they have more games/use and can more often be in an urban area

This I agree with. Coors Field was built in the slummiest part of Denver. 20 years later Lower Downtown has had a complete make over. LODO is now a thriving business and residential district.

 

[KeithP]

its shocking how much tax money is being spent on pro football. the youtube link with John Oliver really nails it...

Actually, he nearly completely misses the point. He spends the bulk of the time painting team owners as the bad guys and very little time on the real problem, incompetent and corrupt politicians and the voters and that keep backing them.

However, the "rich people are evil" narrative fits better into his political views so that is, for the most part, what we get.

A swing and a miss.

-KeithP

 

[foghorn67]

There needs to be a federal law against shit like this. The problem is, team owners are so adept at making threats about moving teams. This is why LA doesn't have an NFL team and might never will, it's the greatest bargaining chip for small market teams who threaten to move the team away if they don't get state/city concessions.

One of the few times I resoundingly agree with you.

 

[mmntech]

Just like FIFA and the Olympics. Pray your city doesn't ever get either

Toronto spent over $2 billion to host the Pan Am games, and it's been met with with a collective shrug by the public. Can't even fill half the seats for some events. Yet they're already talking up how "successful" the games have been, and how this is the run up to an Olympic bid. This is the same city that constantly whines that it has no money for transit, or to fix the only highway into the downtown core.

IOC corruption is largely why Sochi became the boondoggle that it was. It's why nobody wants to host the 2022 winter games. Yet Toronto has a complex. They think they're a "world class" city and are desperate to prove it. So I expect to see more insanity in the future.

More permanent venues do bring revenue to the area. There's been a significant amount of development around the Air Canada Centre in recent years. I'm generally pro-business but when a wealthy private entity asks for millions in public funds to build private infrastructure, that's tough to swallow. Hell, there's already enough public infrastructure the government has no business paying for.

 

[McLovin]

Funny story, my Dad is a Hunting and Fishing guide and has a personal relationship with the current mayor of Glendale, Jerry Weiers.

I sent my Dad an email and apparently he forwarded it on to Jerry and his Wife.

 

[darkswordsman17]

And it's EVEN MORE FUCKED UP for people who claim they're for the people and not corporations to then TURN AROUND AND GIVE TAX DOLLARS TO BILLIONAIRES.

I'm not sure how much more simple I can make it for you. I'm making it about Democrats because that imbecile was attempting to make it about Republicans. Had he not typed that one word, I wouldn't have said a thing about Democrats.

No it's not. It's equally fucked up. Calm down. Both parties claim to be for the people, and both are hypocritical pieces of shit.

Hell your argument is seriously "well Republicans are up front about fucking people over to help corporations" even though the original post that set you off was about a Republican that sells himself as a fiscal conservative and is against frivolous government spending that has literally done the opposite of that. Your whole argument hinged on this dumbass belief that everyone should know Republicans are piece of shit corporate sellouts but somehow don't also know the same is true of Democrats. Both have been hypocritical assholes with regards to things like this. I would be curious for specific data, for instance the total fuckjob that the Marlins stadium is.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Toronto spent over $2 billion to host the Pan Am games, and it's been met with with a collective shrug by the public. Can't even fill half the seats for some events. Yet they're already talking up how "successful" the games have been, and how this is the run up to an Olympic bid. This is the same city that constantly whines that it has no money for transit, or to fix the only highway into the downtown core.

IOC corruption is largely why Sochi became the boondoggle that it was. It's why nobody wants to host the 2022 winter games. Yet Toronto has a complex. They think they're a "world class" city and are desperate to prove it. So I expect to see more insanity in the future.

More permanent venues do bring revenue to the area. There's been a significant amount of development around the Air Canada Centre in recent years. I'm generally pro-business but when a wealthy private entity asks for millions in public funds to build private infrastructure, that's tough to swallow. Hell, there's already enough public infrastructure the government has no business paying for.

Someone should send them economic case studies on the Montreal Olympics. No doubt they'll come up with reasons why this is totally different (as places always do, acting like they've figured out how not to waste tons of money on it, or that the money is providing so much benefits).

Russian corruption is why Sochi was a mess. It was orders of magnitude beyond typical olympic corruption. Not that the corruption in the systems themselves aren't at ridiculous levels, but Russia definitely went out of their way to make Sochi one of the worst examples of this stuff.

 

[Ns1]

This is the same city that constantly whines that it has no money for transit, or to fix the only highway into the downtown core..

Olympics is a pretty good time to fix that issue no? Isn't that what happened i Vancouver?

 

[MongGrel]

Oh, hey there idiot.

Democrats are for welfare for people and not for corporations. So why would some dipshit poster go on about the Republicans, who we KNOW are in it for the corporations, rather than the Democrats who SAY they're against corporations, but are in fact giving corporations massive welfare.

No matter how you look at it, you and Sonikku are stupid.

I don't know why you feel the need to make it about Democrats. Contrary to what you may believe, neither Sonikku nor I believe Democrats are perfect. Sonikku was just pointing out how fucked up it is for Republicans to not want to give welfare to people that actually need it while giving it to people that are insanely rich.

And it's EVEN MORE FUCKED UP for people who claim they're for the people and not corporations to then TURN AROUND AND GIVE TAX DOLLARS TO BILLIONAIRES.

I'm not sure how much more simple I can make it for you. I'm making it about Democrats because that imbecile was attempting to make it about Republicans. Had he not typed that one word, I wouldn't have said a thing about Democrats.

You are truly a pice of work Bober

I used to have Buccs season tickets for years, it really wasn't worth it over time.


Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Stadiums (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs

 

[MongGrel]

More proof trickle down never works.

 

[Genx87]

The stadium deals that have happened in MN are so infuriating. We managed to resist them for so long then a domino affect happened. Think we have built 6 publicly funded stadiums in the last decade. And our insane gov was out lobbying when the vikings threatened to move to LA. And our representatives lied to us on where the funding was going to come from.

Sadly the peons cant get enough sports and are willing to buy billionaires new stadiums.
That woman in arizona is just pathetic. Up there throwing a temper tantrum because she may not be able to force her fellow citizens to buy an arena.

 

[rh71]

Why do we have elected leaders if none of them ever do what people really want? What is the actual point of voting? To say that we had a choice? So people can bitch that some don't vote?

 

[Brainonska511]

Why do we have elected leaders if none of them ever do what people really want? What is the actual point of voting? To say that we had a choice? So people can bitch that some don't vote?

Sensible people might realize that franchise owners are blowing smoke up our butts when they tell us about the economic booms these stadiums will bring. But I think there is a large enough contingent in the general public that doesn't understand this and buys it, hook, line, and sinker, hence, the politicians go along with it, because that's what the idiot people want.

 

[Scarpozzi]

This I agree with. Coors Field was built in the slummiest part of Denver. 20 years later Lower Downtown has had a complete make over. LODO is now a thriving business and residential district.

You need to remember that a lot of cities and metro areas will enact a tourism tax that hikes the hotel rates beyond the typical percentages. That can hit hotels within the area and restaurant taxes can also accumulate. In Nashville, the Titans allowed Tennessee State to play in the stadium on Saturdays because they were building a stadium a few years back. It was great, but the college teams often tore the turf up the day before the NFL game the next game.

There are occasional concerts there....the CMA rewards, other events...but there are only 8 regular season home games per year from September to December. Preseason games only draw about 30%-40% of a regular season game and many are locals that don't spend extra money downtown when attending a game. If the season is going badly for a team, you can sometimes see the same kind of attendance if the weather isn't optimal. Ticket sales are usually somewhat absolute since they're often bought in advance....so the city would lose potential revenue from the few days they would get people in town.

I honestly think the Green Bay Packers are the only reason ANYONE lives in Wisconsin.


So yeah....baseball or basketball are definitely better deals as long as the size of the arena is appropriate. Most NFL stadiums are smaller than the big college stadiums (excluding Dallas). 70,000-85,000 is the typical size.