How shifts in forcus towards a progressive left are affecting Politics more generally...\\\\\\\\\\

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,136
4,864
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I believe that how the right frames progressive trends as 'wokeness' as a catch all for a range of issues hands them a winning strategy to oppose them without exposing their underlying bigotry, and that the progressive left is rather blind to how they are offering the right this gift.

I believe also that the way the more conservative left attempts to handle the pressure from progressives for faster progress has provided a wedge that is dividing unity on the left. I see a great deal of frustration and unhappiness on the left, the progressives potentially costing liberals victory at the polls by being out of the mainstream of political thought but to angry and morally convinced of the validity of their moral claims to adjust their message.

On top of all of this, the presence of social media and the ability of one and all to comment and express anger at others creates the perception of others they are being canceled by culture. Some say that is because the privileged voices of the past are reacting to loss of status while others say the left is losing its liberal values regarding the importance of free speech and will silence voices by mob madness.

I find these topics to be of paramount interest and feel the advantages shifting attitudes on the left in the direction of inclusivity should not be abandoned but the messaging about them more carefully understood to avoid right wing manipulation. It isn't just along racial lines that conservative thought is dangerous. The real danger, in my opinion, is how the right uses the lefts positions to trigger fear among whites that the left is out to get them while thereby taking those same whites to the cleaners by voting for tax policies that favor the rich, the real source of political contributions augmented by the suckers they pull in with fear.

I favor a liberal message that exposes how the right manipulates people to vote for things against their own interests. That would include a description of the techniques of manipulation and the nature of what would be better in their own interests, laws and policies that make everybody at risk of poverty and weakness stronger and more secure.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,758
11,981
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What the war in ukraine has shown us is that propaganda has been much more widespread than we realize (I’m sure, to those in the intelligence community, are not surprised at all). Either republicans have embraced it for decades or they are under its spell, either way they are now the party of propaganda so counter for Dems isn’t just better messaging but also how to “deprogram” whole swaths of people. Countering the rights messaging/propaganda is hard enough, deprogramming the right seems like a nearly impossible task.

This country and democracies all around the world, I’m sure, all in a lot of trouble and are facing an uphill battle.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,326
4,660
126
The US needs a shift in Politics and Culture and the Centrists keep resisting it. The Left provides Policy Ideas, the Right provides Tax/Regulation Cuts, Social/Sexual Restrictions, and increased Militancy. Biden has tried to balance things to appease as many as possible, although not always on the same issue. It is a tough place to be and everyone will criticize him at some point due to it.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
30,817
18,595
136
I'll sum up cancel culture in as simplistic terms as conservatives understand

They want their right to publicly call people like my ni**ger
They want to be able to grab women by the pvssy
They want the right to fire anyone solely because they are LGBTQ
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
32,649
21,982
136
...

I believe that how the right frames progressive trends as 'wokeness' as a catch all for a range of issues hands them a winning strategy to oppose them without exposing their underlying bigotry,
Correct.

and that the progressive left is rather blind to how they are offering the right this gift.
Who do you mean by the progressive left here? I assume you mean every loud motherfucker on social media that overreacts (ie: cultural appropriation). If so, then I agree, these loud motherfuckers are counterproductive because their outrageous position gets framed as the position of all Democrats.

I believe also that the way the more conservative left attempts to handle the pressure from progressives for faster progress has provided a wedge that is dividing unity on the left. I see a great deal of frustration and unhappiness on the left, the progressives potentially costing liberals victory at the polls by being out of the mainstream of political thought but to[sic] angry and morally convinced of the validity of their moral claims to adjust their message.
I agree we need to focus on the more popular and more pressing issues that have wide support. If we could manage that we could build some real momentum from those successes which would then translate into the power required to fix the rest. This was a huge criticism of the anti-Hillary Bernie Bros taking their ball and going home. I also seem to remember you pushing the narrative at the time that Democrats were not progressive enough and that was turning people off. I'm glad to see you have come around on that position.

On top of all of this, the presence of social media and the ability of one and all to comment and express anger at others creates the perception of others they are being canceled by culture. Some say that is because the privileged voices of the past are reacting to loss of status while others say the left is losing its liberal values regarding the importance of free speech and will silence voices by mob madness.

I find these topics to be of paramount interest and feel the advantages shifting attitudes on the left in the direction of inclusivity should not be abandoned but the messaging about them more carefully understood to avoid right wing manipulation.
The idea that it is possible to avoid right-wing manipulation is pure madness.

It isn't just along racial lines that conservative thought is dangerous. The real danger, in my opinion, is how the right uses the lefts positions to trigger fear among whites that the left is out to get them while thereby taking those same whites to the cleaners by voting for tax policies that favor the rich, the real source of political contributions augmented by the suckers they pull in with fear.

I favor a liberal message that exposes how the right manipulates people to vote for things against their own interests. That would include a description of the techniques of manipulation and the nature of what would be better in their own interests, laws and policies that make everybody at risk of poverty and weakness stronger and more secure.
You sound like an elitist who thinks he knows what's better for conservatives than they do. ;)
 
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Lezunto

Senior member
Oct 24, 2020
565
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"Woke" has been an insular term in the Black Community for many years. It was always a term that many Black people employed to define those they considered socially and culturally aware.

It was mostly viewed in a positive light.

Until Conservatives turned it into something akin to calling oneself a Nazi.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,136
4,864
126
Correct.

Who do you mean by the progressive left here? I assume you mean every loud motherfucker on social media that overreacts (ie: cultural appropriation). If so, then I agree, these loud motherfuckers are counterproductive because their outrageous position gets framed as the position of all Democrats.
I have great sympathy for the issues the far left feels. I also feel they are a subset of larger issues that when addressed in the larger picture don't sound so off putting to more conservative liberals. I would suggest a different framing.

I agree we need to focus on the more popular and more pressing issues that have wide support. If we could manage that we could build some real momentum from those successes which would then translate into the power required to fix the rest. This was a huge criticism of the anti-Hillary Bernie Bros taking their ball and going home. I also seem to remember you pushing the narrative at the time that Democrats were not progressive enough and that was turning people off. I'm glad to see you have come around on that position.
Democrats are way too moderate in my opinion. I favor far more progressive policies than what Democrats are able to put on the table. What I do not like if the form in which typical progressives frame them. I especially dislike mob condemnation of people on social media

The idea that it is possible to avoid right-wing manipulation is pure madness.
What we refer to as impossibilities are things that exceed our ability to achieve. That just makes something impossible for one person. It may not apply to someone else with different abilities.

You sound like an elitist who thinks he knows what's better for conservatives than they do. ;)
I believe conservative policies are bad for conservatives and I see that as an objective fact. I believe that objective facts are ultimately distinguishable form lies. I see no sense then in saying somebody who knows the truth is elite. In the first place truth requires a level of humility. But as you wish.
 

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