I have a feeling that the number of US Ph.D's granted in EE (especially from schools in the top 10 list in academic reputation) is small compared to other large science and engineering disiplines, but can't find any statistics. What is your impression about the number of people with EE doctorates in industry: engineering, technical, or other fields? I know academia has EE doctorates, but is there a glut or shortage for academia as well? Is there any benefit obtaining the doctorate for obtaining jobs in industry? Thanks for your insight.
How rare is the doctorate in Electrical Engineering?
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Born2bwire
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All I know is that when I worked at Intel over the summer, Intel had hired enough of my advisor's PhD's that we all had a barbeque.
i remember talking with one of the Senior EE's my first job out of school. i was working on the company's last analog microwave radio, he was working on one of their first digital microwave radio's.
he said he'd hire an MS from Santa Clara over an MS from Stanford any day of the week.
i think he was trying to say, he needed engineers who were "hands-on".
if you are interested in the subject, i would say, go for the pHD - UNLESS it means going into debt.
I am not sure about the situation in the US. But here in Europe a Ph.D can actually be a disadvantage if you are looking for a job in the private sector. Mainly because the people hiring don't understand exaclty what a Ph.D "means" in terms of competence.
However, of course this is not always true and especially large companies tend to hire a lot of Ph.Ds for their R&D departments.
I'm working on a PhD in chemical engineering. Last I checked, there are about 600 given out per year in the US in chemical engineering. I'm not sure what the numbers look like for EE, but probably on the same order.
As far as whether a PhD will help you or not, the answer is (as with any good engineering question): it depends. What do you want to do? Research? Then probably get a PhD. If you're just looking for something to put you above the majority of EEs going into industry, get a masters degree. You'll start at higher pay and do the same work as someone with a BS. Four of my undergrad roommates took this route as EEs and are all doing very well now.
As far as whether a PhD will help you or not, the answer is (as with any good engineering question): it depends. What do you want to do? Research? Then probably get a PhD. If you're just looking for something to put you above the majority of EEs going into industry, get a masters degree. You'll start at higher pay and do the same work as someone with a BS. Four of my undergrad roommates took this route as EEs and are all doing very well now.
depends on what you want to do. don't do a phd for the money, it's a money losing endeavor given the amount of money you could've been making in that 5 years plus the advancements you could be making in the corporate chain vs. getting a phd. it also depends on your advisor. UT austin has a lot of good advisors that crank out phds in 3 years. others like yale patt crank them out in what seems 6+ years.
if you want to learn, get a phd. if you want to make money, work, and maybe get a masters. even that isn't necessary if you're good enough.
hey.. you're a longhorn too? that's cool.
yea.. patt is very selective and a PhD will take upto 8 years with him..
yea.. patt is very selective and a PhD will take upto 8 years with him..
Meh, all my professors have EE PHds... you have to if you want to teach it. My impression is most PHds end up at universities, generally after a few years of advanced research work at some company.
And don't forget about the money involved in actually getting your PhD. If your program keeps you above the poverty line, that's like 5 years of barely having your head above the water if you don't have any extra income
I will have my MSEE next spring, and will have to decide at that point whether or not to go on to the PhD. Right now my main motivation is to make money and advance as far as possible in a company, so it would seem like I would be better off leaving with my MS and working, but when I look at a lot of the prominent figures in the big VLSI companies like Intel, many of them have PhDs, so I am not sure if the PhD is ultimately required to get ahead.
Maybe PM can help us with the Intel and PhD thing, and give us some advice.
I was personly going to stop at my MSEE, as in more debt then i like now and will be alot more by the time i get my MSEE. I would stop at my BSEE but the pay is so crazy difference for only an extra 1.5-2 years you know.
I was personly going to stop at my MSEE, as in more debt then i like now and will be alot more by the time i get my MSEE. I would stop at my BSEE but the pay is so crazy difference for only an extra 1.5-2 years you know.
I wouldn't say "crazy", although it probably depends on the company. I had a job offer from Intel for $60k with my BSEE, and they said MSEEs are offered on the order of $70k or so. I'd imagine most companies probably pay in that range. Whether you could make up that difference by working those two years is debatable I guess.
I'd look at the ceiling of the salary range, because that's where you'll end up eventually. The ceiling on my current degree (in progress) MS Biometry (and field - biostatistics) is around 90k-100k, but if you were to have a PhD., you could make upwards of 130k.
How would you know what the ceiling is though, until you actually start working in the position?
good point Special K.
An extra 10k is good enough for me to stay install for an extra 1.5 years.
but if i was offered a job at a place like Intel or AMD with a BSEE starting at 60k than i might decided to not go for the MSEE.
I am planning on appling for internships at Intel and AMD and some other company for next summer so i hope i get in
and make some connections... just got to figure out how to get a leave from my current employer for a summer without them cutting me loose lol.
P.S. Special K, i am sure the HR at any company can tell you the ceiling of the job so maybe when your getting interview are being ask to collect on the job offer they can tell you those details.
An extra 10k is good enough for me to stay install for an extra 1.5 years.
but if i was offered a job at a place like Intel or AMD with a BSEE starting at 60k than i might decided to not go for the MSEE.
I am planning on appling for internships at Intel and AMD and some other company for next summer so i hope i get in
and make some connections... just got to figure out how to get a leave from my current employer for a summer without them cutting me loose lol.P.S. Special K, i am sure the HR at any company can tell you the ceiling of the job so maybe when your getting interview are being ask to collect on the job offer they can tell you those details.
again, it really depends. there are a few phds where i work, and some are in positions that have nothing to do with their phds. keep in mind that if you do a phd you probably will want to get a job in that specialization, and since it's a niche market, it might be very hard to get exactly what you want. most of the phds i've worked with in industry are working in areas outside of their specialization. i know of one guy with a phd that is working on what he specialized in, and he's our head microarchitect, which are few and far between.
At the UCAL Berkley Departement of Engineering we have roughly 18 professors who have PhD's in EE. I know that they make a lot of dinero because of their qualifications but they're all in their late 60's. If age is a consideration I think you might want to take this into account. Otherwise live life to the fullest
Cheers
Cheers
I don't read Anandtech as much as I used too - if you ever want my opinion on anything, email or "pm's" to pm work.
At Intel it's really hard to know who has a EE PhD, who has MSEE, who has a BSEE, and, yes, even who has a high school diploma. I remember a couple of years ago, we had a team lunch and we were sitting around at Old Chicago's or something and someone asked "so where did you guys go to college?" and we went around the table until we got to a guy, about 35 years old with whom I'd been working closely with for over a year on a very tricky high-speed transmission line circuit and have a lot of respect for, and he said "I never went to college". He worked his way up from being a technician to being an engineer.
In my humble, and likely controversial, opinion, you should get a BSEE or MSEE if you want to work in design, and get an MSEE or PhD if you want to go into research. In design at the three sites that I've worked at within Intel, no one knows who has what degress, even their managers, no one knows where you went to college (unless you have covered your walls with football gear), and when it comes time to promotion or raises, no one pays any attention to how many years of schooling you've had.
I've been a manager at Intel (for my sins), and I know how the systems works first-hand from having to figure out who on my team gets what salary, and I wouldn't have the faintest idea what university any of them went to or what degree that they have.
A PhD at Intel gives you a much higher starting salary, and it may be useful in research, but in my time in design at Intel Santa Clara, CA; Hillsboro, OR; and Fort Collins, CO , I don't think it makes much of a difference for long-term career development. I also tend to think it makes landing the first job a little more difficult since a PhD essentially puts you in a niche and the hiring manager needs to justify the higher base starting salary.
For what it's worth, I have an MSc. Electronics from the University of Durham, Durham, England. But I would bet that less than a dozen of my co-workers would realize that I have a masters, or that I went to university in the UK (I was born in the US).
It depends...A lot of people talk abot the virtues of a MS, and that PhD is more for research. I used to think the same, but recently I've learned (from my Dad who started teaching some summer classes at a Cal State because he was interested) that witha PhD you can be a teacher at a Cal State, and do a lot of consulting on the side. Since you don't have to do research, it isn't at time consuming and most of them do it because they enjoy it. For their "real salary" they do consulting which makes quite a bit of cash.
So don't look at it from the traditional views...depending how you do it both can be beneficial. One thing is for certain: don't jump into a PhD unless you REALLLY want to learn, because ultimately the goal is to try to satisfy your unending lust by figuring out one miniscule part of the massive puzzle
Oh, and for the record I still haven't decided...MS or PhD. Maybe the focus should be on finishing that BS in the first place
So don't look at it from the traditional views...depending how you do it both can be beneficial. One thing is for certain: don't jump into a PhD unless you REALLLY want to learn, because ultimately the goal is to try to satisfy your unending lust by figuring out one miniscule part of the massive puzzle
Oh, and for the record I still haven't decided...MS or PhD. Maybe the focus should be on finishing that BS in the first place
I just started on my PhD (straight from BSEE). I am getting full tuition + $1600/month stipend, which fully suits my lifestyle at Penn State. If I really dont like it, I can just leave with a masters after two years, but I think ill stay on for a PhD.
I think living off $1600 a month is easier if you are coming straight out of college and arent used to making more money. I dont think I would go back to get my PhD after already have a job that paid >$50K
Edit: My main reason for staying on with school is that right now money isnt really a motivating factor for me, and I enjoy school and the lifestyle I have grown accustomed to in the last 4 years.
I think living off $1600 a month is easier if you are coming straight out of college and arent used to making more money. I dont think I would go back to get my PhD after already have a job that paid >$50K
Edit: My main reason for staying on with school is that right now money isnt really a motivating factor for me, and I enjoy school and the lifestyle I have grown accustomed to in the last 4 years.
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