How profitable has the Xbox360 been?

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
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wow, never realized the ps3's ship date was so late in the year.

microsoft's gamble w/the xbox360 worked. they have at least a year's jump their rivals. (Wii doesnt ship till 2007.)

but has the xbox360 been profitable for ms? or have they been bleeding $ rushing the product out too soon?
 

Zim Hosein

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but has the xbox360 been profitable for ms?

They are still losing money on each Xbox 360 they manufacture, but I don't know if they are breaking even through the software licensing :confused:
 

kyparrish

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Nov 6, 2003
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I'll believe the PS3 ship date when I see it.

I'm sure MS is big enough to absorb any losses from rushing the product out, plus, it's more important to just get the systems out as early and as plentifully as possible; you want to build up your installed base as quickly as possible.
 

intogamer

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Dec 5, 2004
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MS shoulda released it a bit later. They forced it out early with high losses.

But its a gamble they won and lost I guess. XBOX360 sold good but Sony also pushed their dates
 

Eeezee

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Originally posted by: kyparrish
I'll believe the PS3 ship date when I see it.

I'm sure MS is big enough to absorb any losses from rushing the product out, plus, it's more important to just get the systems out as early and as plentifully as possible; you want to build up your installed base as quickly as possible.

It's either that or delay the PS3 another year. Sony can't afford that, they need the christmas demand
 

EyeMWing

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Jun 13, 2003
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I've still never even SEEN an xbox360. I've heard plenty of stories. seen lots of pics on the intarweb. But I've never SEEN one outside of a store.

It took me a full TWO YEARS to see an xbox, though. And that's only happened ONCE.
 

intogamer

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Dec 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: EyeMWing
I've still never even SEEN an xbox360. I've heard plenty of stories. seen lots of pics on the intarweb. But I've never SEEN one outside of a store.

It took me a full TWO YEARS to see an xbox, though. And that's only happened ONCE.

haha yeah and I don't really get Chuck Norris(I seriously don't)
 

neutralizer

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Oct 4, 2001
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I don't know any of my friends with one, but I see it all the time in stores like EB Games and Gamestop.
 

theNEOone

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Apr 22, 2001
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well, i just took a look at microsoft's financial statements as of march 31, 06. they're not very specific, but i'll report a little on their "home and entertainment" division (which i'm going to assume is mostly the xbox but might also include their media center OS).

3 months ended march 31, the division
[*] almost doubled their revenue from $571 million to $1.1 billion
[*] more than doubled their loss from $175 million to $388 million

eh, doesn't seem too hot for MS but i guess the real test is to look at the division over the long term, rather than just quarterly. i'd be curious to see just the stats on the xbox division, rather than have them bundled up in "home & entertainment"

from MS's 2005 annual report:

Home and Entertainment includes the Microsoft Xbox video game console system, PC games, the Home Products Division (HPD), and TV platform products for the interactive television industry. The success of video game consoles is determined by console functionality, the portfolio of video game content for the console, and the market share of the console. Revenue and unit volumes have grown quickly since we entered the market in 2002 and we have established ourselves as one of the market leaders. We believe our competitive position and revenue is bolstered by our increasing software game attach rates, which provides higher margins to offset the declining prices on consoles sold. Xbox consoles have negative gross margins.

Home and Entertainment revenue increased in fiscal year 2005 primarily due to significant new product launches, which resulted in a $416 million or 23% increase in Xbox revenue. In the second quarter of fiscal year 2005, we introduced Halo 2, which generated over $300 million in revenue in the fiscal year. Revenue from consumer hardware and software, PC games, and TV platforms declined $50 million or 5% compared to fiscal year 2004 due to lower PC games software sales. In fiscal year 2004, Xbox revenue increased $144 million or 9% with $269 million related to higher Xbox software volumes and $117 million due to higher Xbox console volumes, partially offset by a $242 million decline related to price reductions of Xbox consoles and software. Overall, Xbox console volumes sales increased 11% in fiscal year 2004 compared to fiscal year 2003. Revenue from consumer hardware and software, PC games and TV platforms declined $16 million or 1% compared to fiscal year 2003 due to lower PC games software and PC gaming devices sales, partially offset by the new release of Mac Office.

Home and Entertainment operating loss in fiscal year 2005 decreased primarily due to an increase in high margin Xbox software sales, lower Xbox console unit costs, the lower-of-cost-or-market inventory adjustment recorded in fiscal year 2004, and a decrease in stock-based compensation expense. The decrease was partially offset by an increase in costs associated with Xbox 360 console development and launch efforts associated with it. The increase in operating loss in fiscal year 2004 was primarily due to $141 million of stock-based compensation expense from the employee stock option transfer program in the second quarter of fiscal year 2004, increased sales of negative margin consoles, and costs associated with Xbox 360 console development efforts, partially offset by increased Xbox and Mac Office software sales. The operating loss increase from fiscal year 2003 also included a lower-of-cost-or-market adjustment of approximately $90 million related to Xbox console inventory.

We expect operating expenses to continue to increase as we near the launch of Xbox 360. As a result of launch-related activities, we expect our operating loss to increase in fiscal year 2006. In fiscal year 2006, we expect Xbox console unit volumes and revenue to increase from fiscal year 2005 due to launch of the Xbox 360. In fiscal year 2006 we expect PC games revenue to increase from fiscal year 2005 driven by more new game titles.

=|
 

middlehead

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Jul 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
but has the xbox360 been profitable for ms?
They are still losing money on each Xbox 360 they manufacture, but I don't know if they are breaking even through the software licensing :confused:
Not just that, they're still losing money on every plain old XBox sold. I wouldn't be surprised if their game/entertainment division doesn't turn a profit on hardware until their next system.
 

Zim Hosein

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Originally posted by: middlehead
Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
but has the xbox360 been profitable for ms?
They are still losing money on each Xbox 360 they manufacture, but I don't know if they are breaking even through the software licensing :confused:
Not just that, they're still losing money on every plain old XBox sold. I wouldn't be surprised if their game/entertainment division doesn't turn a profit on hardware until their next system.

Really? :Q I thought that they were making a "small" profit by now; isn't Sony at least breaking even w/ the latest version of the PS2? :confused:
 

TerryMathews

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: theNEOone
eh, doesn't seem too hot for MS but i guess the real test is to look at the division over the long term, rather than just quarterly. i'd be curious to see just the stats on the xbox division, rather than have them bundled up in "home & entertainment"


=|

Especially now, MS considers the 360 to be a MCE peripheral.
 

Zim Hosein

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Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Originally posted by: theNEOone
eh, doesn't seem too hot for MS but i guess the real test is to look at the division over the long term, rather than just quarterly. i'd be curious to see just the stats on the xbox division, rather than have them bundled up in "home & entertainment"


=|

Especially now, MS considers the 360 to be a MCE peripheral.

How can MS justify that statement TerryMathews? :confused:

 

herkulease

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Jul 6, 2001
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The Wii is coming out this november. where did you get 2007 from?

anyhow Microsoft will continue to lose money per system for quite sometime. maybe in 2-3 years they will maybe turn a profit.

Assuming the titles continue to keep coming and people choose the 360 over the ps3. With development costs going up there will be plenty of multi platform forms, so its up to Microsoft to try and get quality exclusives.

they have a bunch exlusives also but then continue to hammer home the fact that its cheaper than the ps3. And if they want to put a knock sony to the ropes and possible KO them, work 100X harder and push HD-DVD as the next gen standard. Sony imo is putting a lot of marbles in blu-ray. If it fails it could be the end.

profit via the system itself is a long time coming, they do own the designs this time around but it'll depend on how long they want to stick with the system. longer they do the better chance. Personally I'm hoping it lasts until at least 2010 before they release a new one.



 

TerryMathews

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Originally posted by: theNEOone
eh, doesn't seem too hot for MS but i guess the real test is to look at the division over the long term, rather than just quarterly. i'd be curious to see just the stats on the xbox division, rather than have them bundled up in "home & entertainment"


=|

Especially now, MS considers the 360 to be a MCE peripheral.

How can MS justify that statement TerryMathews? :confused:

I wasn't meaning exclusively, but it does have a lot of MCE required features, as well as "Works better with MCE".

First off, it's a Media Center Extender. Secondly, to stream video to it, you've got to be running MCE. Third, it will stream music from XP running a certain program, but it also works (out of the box?) with MCE. Not to mention all the cool remote display apps that can run on a MCE box and display on the 360. Heck, there's a Nintendo emulator that's doing that right now.

Originally posted by: herkulease
they have a bunch exlusives also but then continue to hammer home the fact that its cheaper than the ps3. And if they want to put a knock sony to the ropes and possible KO them, work 100X harder and push HD-DVD as the next gen standard. Sony imo is putting a lot of marbles in blu-ray. If it fails it could be the end.

I'm sorry, but I don't think either format is going to succeed at market, it's too early. HD penetration just isn't high enough, and IMO won't be during the useful life of these consoles.

Who knows, maybe I'll be wrong and Sony/MS will bring us the era of "A HDTV in every living room." But I doubt it. None of the technology is really 'there' yet, and I think the market is aware, at least a bit. Heck, when did they start building HDCP-compatible sets, this year? And how long have HDTVs been at market?
 

Zim Hosein

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I wasn't meaning exclusively, but it does have a lot of MCE required features, as well as "Works better with MCE".

First off, it's a Media Center Extender. Secondly, to stream video to it, you've got to be running MCE. Third, it will stream music from XP running a certain program, but it also works (out of the box?) with MCE. Not to mention all the cool remote display apps that can run on a MCE box and display on the 360. Heck, there's a Nintendo emulator that's doing that right now.

Now that you mention it TerryMathews, that does make sense, thanks for the explanation :beer:
 

TerryMathews

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
I wasn't meaning exclusively, but it does have a lot of MCE required features, as well as "Works better with MCE".

First off, it's a Media Center Extender. Secondly, to stream video to it, you've got to be running MCE. Third, it will stream music from XP running a certain program, but it also works (out of the box?) with MCE. Not to mention all the cool remote display apps that can run on a MCE box and display on the 360. Heck, there's a Nintendo emulator that's doing that right now.

Now that you mention it TerryMathews, that does make sense, thanks for the explanation :beer:

:beer:
 

sygyzy

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Oct 21, 2000
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Originally posted by: JEDI
wow, never realized the ps3's ship date was so late in the year.

microsoft's gamble w/the xbox360 worked. they have at least a year's jump their rivals. (Wii doesnt ship till 2007.)

but has the xbox360 been profitable for ms? or have they been bleeding $ rushing the product out too soon?

I am sorry, I don't understand any of this.

Microsoft's gamble paid off? They have a year jump on their rivals? What gamble? Is that like saying my gamble to speed paid off? My car went faster?

Everyone knows that every manufacturer loses money on the hardware. They (try to) make it back on the games.

Assuming MS did "rush" the console out, how would that make them bleed money? What was the alternative? Wait 10 years for lower hardware manufacturing costs and breakthroughs in cost-saving design?
 

Fritzo

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Jan 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Where'd you hear that Wii wasnt coming out until 2007?

Yeah, last I heard they were announcing the date in Sept 2006. Might be out for Christmas.
 

Looney

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Jun 13, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Originally posted by: theNEOone
eh, doesn't seem too hot for MS but i guess the real test is to look at the division over the long term, rather than just quarterly. i'd be curious to see just the stats on the xbox division, rather than have them bundled up in "home & entertainment"


=|

Especially now, MS considers the 360 to be a MCE peripheral.

How can MS justify that statement TerryMathews? :confused:

Because the two are so perfect for one another. I thought having MCE and the 360 together was awesome... i could access my movies and music on my MCE directly from my 360... it took about 15mins to set up, but it was rather painless.

You know what happened when i connected my Vista laptop to my home network? It automatically found the 360 within 10 secs! All i had to do was enter in my 360 key, and they were together. Man, i seriously can't wait until Vista Live! is live.

 

0roo0roo

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Sep 21, 2002
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i doubt they make a profit off the hardware yet, its a lot of hardware for the money. perhaps their pain is lessened by software royalties a bit, its doing ok in the us. they will make a profit eventually, they own all the ip this time and can cost cut through hardware revisions this time unlike xbox 1. just like the ps2 that went through 10+ revisions to get into profit.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
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Well yeah, software royalties is where the actual profit will be coming from. Look at Oblivion PC and 360. 360 is about $20 more, and there's MUCH less piracy with the 360... it's on the same media, comes with similar manuals, so it should be cheaper than the PC version (because of the lack of piracy)... but the royalties is big money.

Live! is much more popular on the 360 than the Xbox. Everybody i know with a 360 has Live!... and with the MS points, that could really be profitable as well. I would seriously buy games from Live! if it function like Steam (full games i mean... i LOVE the arcade games, but i would download full games too). Am i right to assume that the game is linked with your Live account right now too? Hell, if they could guarantee that everything i buy on Live would be permanently linked to my account like it is with Steam, i would buy anything... music, games, movies, etc.

And other things make having a gold Live membership worthwhile too. It hasn't taken off yet, but the Live VOIP and video chatting (it's kinda odd that the first real videocalling will be from cell phones) could conceivably replace long distance service if you know enough people that use it. Or OMG what if MS starts offering dialing to landlines and mobile phones? Even for a fee, this could be huge.