How One Piece of Paper Destroyed Your Right to a Trial

[DominionSeraph]

Why dont you explain to me the difference between nazis killing jews with no due process and no recourse, and the us government killing its citizens with no due process and no recourse.

If you can't figure it out it's because you don't want to hear it. I'm not going to waste my time when you've already got your fingers in your ears going, "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I believe what I believe."
Go talk to a wall.

I figured you would show up. Im still waiting for your response to what in Adam Bates article you disagreed with. In case you want to offer of something more than a drive by attack. Here is the link again.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/25/doj-drone-memo-obama-is-judge-jury-and-executioner/

>daily caller

 

[Genx87]

>daily caller

Yeah, you said that last time before slinking off. So do you have anything to offer other than a drive by troll?

 

[DominionSeraph]

Yeah, you said that last time

So you're slow. Get back to me once you figure out what it means.

 

[Genx87]

So you're slow.

There is that trolling we were talking about.

 

[glenn1]

Don't worry, the OP and his ilk will continue to support Obama no matter what since "standing up for the little guy" and "inequality" are more important than some quaint notions about Constitutional rights. Heck, if they voted for a Republican he might even be opposed to free birth control or similar thoughtcrimes.

 

[DominionSeraph]

There is that trolling we were talking about.

I'm not here to catch you up to an 8th grade education.

"DominionSeraph, thinking is hard! Do it for me!"
No.

 

[Texashiker]

If you can't figure it out it's because you don't want to hear it.

I'm not here to catch you up to an 8th grade education.

"DominionSeraph, thinking is hard! Do it for me!"
No.

Shoo troll, go away. Adults are having a serious discussion.

Remember that comment I made about not liking you? Your post are the exact reason why.

You try to discredit others, while not contributing anything of value.

The non-disputable facts remain, the obama administration has acted in a manner contrary to basic human rights everyone is entitled to. This is no different that the way hitler, stalin,,,, or any other tyrannical leader as acted.

The obama administration has put citizens to death without jury, judge, evidence or recourse.

 

[Genx87]

I'm not here to catch you up to an 8th grade education.

"DominionSeraph, thinking is hard! Do it for me!"
No.

Hahahaha on this topic you have taken the troll approach. The very epitome of not thinking.

 

[Jaskalas]

We already have well established systems for dealing with people like this that have been around for a long time. I don't see why need to change it because we want the ability to kill citizens not engaged in combat.

"Engaged in combat", with terrorists? I imagine most of them don't do that unless you operate in their territory, or if they are here pulling the trigger, suicide belt, whatever on a target. AKA, when they are "in combat" it's too late, because their actions are usually taking the initiative to strike first.

If you want to oppose the very notion of the "War on Terror", I hear you.
If you want to oppose assassinating terror "targets", I hear you.
But if we are doing those things, as a nation, it'd be best to establish how to proceed with more than just the President's executive order.

 

[DrPizza]

If a guy ran into a school, waving a gun around; an officer in the school tried to stop him, but couldn't, and the guy with the gun was running toward a crowded auditorium yelling that he was going to kill people, I'd have absolutely no problem with the officer in the building shooting the guy.

Do you presume a man yelling that he's going to kill people, running toward those people is "innocent until proven guilty?"

I'm generally against the death penalty. But, if someone is doing something like the above - and in al Awlaki's case, it was effectively the same - and there is no peaceable way of stopping that action (you couldn't exactly surround him with police cars and arrest him), then really, I haven't much of a problem with it. Given that the number of times this has occurred is very small; certainly doesn't rise into even the 100s of American citizens, then I'm forced to trust that those who made the rare decision to do so were quite convinced that the threat was real. Further, there was a time opportunity to evaluate this, rather than a split second decision that's too often (more times than there have been drone strikes on US citizens) incorrectly made by police officers to take a life.

 

[Texashiker]

But, if someone is doing something like the above - and in al Awlaki's case,

You are comparing an immediate threat to someone on the other side of the world running his mouth.

There is news today about north Korea threatening to nuke the white house. Is obama going to kill the president of north korea?

Under your example all threats should be taken seriously. Lets just ignore that the threats probably have no chance of ever happening.

 

[piasabird]

Due process like the NSA spying on every Phone in the USA?

 

[piasabird]

The State Department, The CIA and the President are all arming Islamic terrorists that want to kill us. They are giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the USA. They even threw an independent film maker in Jail to make terrorists happy and hide the fact that they were gun running during an election campaign. Do you really think the President cares about due process?

 

[OBLAMA2009]

most people are too drunk from the media propaganda to realize the us government is the biggest danger to freedom on this planet. the technological advantages the us gov has and its willingness to totally exploit that will has made the totalitarian states of america possible. forget about north korea, iran, putin etc... the real danger is our own gov

 

[WHAMPOM]

I have brought up the topic of Anwar al-Awlaki numerous times in this forum.

From previous threads, for the most part people have no problem with the government killing US citizens with no due process.

Ya' mean like in a lot of no knock warrants, Black and walking with Skittles, reaching for ID in a pocket or a SWAT sharp shooter with a "GO" order? Got a lot of killing getting glossed over by you. Could be you are blinded by your agenda. (statement not a question)

 

[WHAMPOM]

most people are too drunk from the media propaganda to realize the us government is the biggest danger to freedom on this planet. the technological advantages the us gov has and its willingness to totally exploit that will has made the totalitarian states of america possible. forget about north korea, iran, putin etc... the real danger is our own gov

You mean the danger is in those that control the Government. In a system where money is free speech, money dictates who wins elections. Money owns the ear of your representative, dictates the legislation and the votes on it.
Walking the streets at noon, naked carrying a lit candle looking for a honest man, aint found one yet.

 

[Texashiker]

Ya' mean like in a lot of no knock warrants, Black and walking with Skittles, reaching for ID in a pocket or a SWAT sharp shooter with a "GO" order? Got a lot of killing getting glossed over by you. Could be you are blinded by your agenda. (statement not a question)

The truth has no agenda.

 

[Knowing]

This conversation will never go anywhere. It didn't in June when the memo was quietly released and it won't now. Somehow all of the people that used to get offended when citizens didn't get trials have rationalized why they were not necessary this time. It's odd that in more than 200 years no president has ever claimed this power and it's the democrats and not the warmongering constitution hating republicans who finally do.

>daily caller

Using maymay arrows
On ananadtech

 

[Victorian Gray]

The uncomfortable truth, obama supporters will go to any length to support him.

There is no difference between the nazis sending jews to the death camps, and obama killing US citizens with drone strikes.

Anyone who says there is a difference is lying.

obama is no different than any other tyrannical leader who kills people at will. stalin, hitler, pol pot, obama,,, same peas in a pod.

This just might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Congratulations.

 

[DrPizza]

You are comparing an immediate threat to someone on the other side of the world running his mouth.

There is news today about north Korea threatening to nuke the white house. Is obama going to kill the president of north korea?

Under your example all threats should be taken seriously. Lets just ignore that the threats probably have no chance of ever happening.

Yes, all should be taken seriously until they have been evaluated for how serious the person is, and how likely it is that the person follows through with the threat. If info pointed to al Awlaki's threat to the US being credible, and highly likely to actually cause harm, then that deserves a different response than the response to child state chest thumping when NK has no possible way to carry through with their threat.

 

[Texashiker]

Yes, all should be taken seriously until they have been evaluated for how serious the person is, and how likely it is that the person follows through with the threat.

Last I heard, as a US citizen we are innocent until proven guilty.

We have a right to see the evidence against us.

We have a right to question witnesses.

We have a right to present our own evidence.

If Anwar al-Awlaki can have those rights stripped from him, then so can you and I.

 

[Fern]

I didn't read then entirety of the Op's post, but this bit doesn't surprise in the least:

In March 2012, Attorney General Eric Holder made quite a remarkable statement about the al-Awlaki killing. He claimed "that a careful and thorough executive branch review of the facts in a case amounts to ‘due process' and that the Constitution's Fifth Amendment protection against depriving a citizen of his or her life without due process of law does not mandate a ‘judicial process.'" In other words, according to the top legal authority in the nation, a White House review was due process enough when it came to an American citizen with Al Qaeda sympathies. In this, though it was unknown at the time, Holder was essentially quoting a secret white paper on that killing produced by the Office of Legal Counsel, located in the department he headed.

He should've never been confirmed. IMO, the guy has no ethics. The Marc Rich pardon wasn't an aberration.

Fern

 

[Orignal Earl]

Define an enemy of the United States.

The uncomfortable truth, obama supporters will go to any length to support him.

There is no difference between the nazis sending jews to the death camps, and obama killing US citizens with drone strikes.

Anyone who says there is a difference is lying.

obama is no different than any other tyrannical leader who kills people at will. stalin, hitler, pol pot, obama,,, same peas in a pod.

Your probably getting close there

 

[mirageracerx]

I can't tell YOU the difference because you're an idiot whose proven time and again in P&N a complete inability to learn. I could easily have this discussion with other people that wouldn't be a giant waste of my time. However, those people wouldn't have made this fucktarded comparison to begin with, so there's no need.

translation = youre a dummy head and this is a bad comparison.

i always have a problem with people trying to use an extensive vocabulary to prove their superiority when their context is lacking/incomplete/non-existent.

 

[werepossum]

Called it!!!!!! And boy howdy it's a regular foaming at the mouth, slamming the keyboard festival.

Gotta look at the bright side. For me, the bright side is that I can avoid being one of the foamy keyboard slammers on either side of this issue.

When he opted to join a foreign militant group that has declared itself an enemy of the US, he opted to make himself an enemy combatant and a military target. Military target acquisition and elimination is and should remain at the discretion of the President. Would apprehending him have been preferable? Sure, but you run into many problems in attempting that. Risk to US military lives to apprehend. Do we or don't we notify the host country? If we do notify will they warn him and ruin out chances or worse place more American lives at risk?

Basically the drone war in itself sucks. There's too much collateral damage. But does it suck worse than putting more soldiers in harm's way? I view the Al-Awlaki situation as the least shitty option amongst a bunch of shitty options. Terrorists should never feel safe from us.

Well said, sir. As with many issues there are no good choices, no obvious right and wrong, just two bad choices.

That said, equating Obama hitting some Americans gone rogue with Hitler mass murdering the Jews is simply pure insanity no matter which side of the issue one embraces. (Or should that be which end of the turd?)

You mean the danger is in those that control the Government. In a system where money is free speech, money dictates who wins elections. Money owns the ear of your representative, dictates the legislation and the votes on it.
Walking the streets at noon, naked carrying a lit candle looking for a honest man, aint found one yet.

Well - honest men tend to avoid talking to naked men walking the streets carrying candles. Just sayin' . . .