How often should I be hearing the same thing from the front L/R speakers?

ManBearPig

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
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6
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This sounds really stupid, I know, but bear with me...I'm coming from using TV speakers all my life so I don't know any better. :p

In trying to figure out if my L/R speakers are the same, or if there's a problem with my receiver, room, whatever, I've come to realize that a lot, if not the vast majority of the time, I hear different stuff from my front L/R.

Is this on purpose, or should the front L/R be the same most of the time?

It's hard for me to grasp this concept since I've not had them separated like this before. This would only make sense to me if they're supposed to blend with each other, and since I'm just sitting too closely to them that I can distinctly hear different things from each speaker that WOULD blend together if I were sitting further away. It's kind of distracting IMO.

Thanks!
 
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SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
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If you are watching movies it is normally different. For TV its iffy and for music it may be different but should blend.
 

ManBearPig

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
9,173
6
81
If you are watching movies it is normally different. For TV its iffy and for music it may be different but should blend.

That's pretty much exactly what I'm hearing. TV is usually even but not always.

It's kind of weird because if I put my ear up to both they may both be playing the same sounds but the right or left will be louder/more prominent (and one side or the other might have an additional beat or something). I personally find this kind of annoying.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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You could have some odd wiring issues, Phase issues or speaker placement issues.

What speakers do you own and do you have a picture of your room?
 

lamedude

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,230
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AFAIK when downmixing 5.1 the center channel gets output in both L/R. This creates a phantom center though you have to in the middle of both speakers for the effect to work.
 

Ross Ridge

Senior member
Dec 21, 2009
830
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Even on TV speakers you should be able to tell the difference betwee mono and stereo. Just playing around with the MTS settings on my TV I was able to tell the difference, at least once I managed to find something that actually was in stereo.

With regular speakers it shouldn't be that hard to tell even without switching between mono and stereo. Put on some music and sit in the middle of the two speakers in a normal listen position and close your eyes. If you can locate the various instruments in different positions then you're hearing stereo, if they all sound like they're coming from the same place then you're hearing mono.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
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If you feel the need to put your ear next to the speakers why not use headphones?

How stereo works is that the L and R speaker essentially play the same sound at different volume levels. When we hear it, it should sound like the source is between the speakers. Most music will have a "sound stage" with the various instruments apparent location spread across between the speakers.

Movies typically have all dialog, voices, set in the center between the L and R speakers, and with various Dolby type decoding systems a center dialog speaker is used.

OTOH if you are "noticing" something going on that suggests a setup error.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
AFAIK when downmixing 5.1 the center channel gets output in both L/R. This creates a phantom center though you have to in the middle of both speakers for the effect to work.

The center channel is dropped -3dbu and sent equally out the l and r. Lots of sounds are played mono center not just the center channel 5.1 stuff

Almost as a rule kick drums and bass in music is mixed mono (meaning equal amount out of left and right with the -3dbu pan law)
 

ManBearPig

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
9,173
6
81
I honestly cant figure it out. Play this in stereo and tell me if you hear it in the left speaker more prominently, the right speaker more prominently, or the center (where i'm thinking it should be):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cze-RfsOkkc

I'll provide more info about my setup once i figure out how crazy i am. For reference, i hear it in the right speaker the most, throughout pretty much the entire song.

The thing that drives me nuts is that during some scenes, clearly the same content should be playing in the left and right speakers, AND IT IS, but i hear it predominantly in the right speaker...what i cant figure out, though, is that when i crane my neck to the left or move to the left in front of that speaker, it sounds the same. BUT THE TOE-IN IS THE EXACT SAME!
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,312
17,908
126
you need a spl meter to balance your system or use the one built into your receiver if your receiver has it.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,211
537
126
Four tools that you need for setting up speakers with a receiver, measuring tape, SPL meter, frequency sweep test tone CD (or a computer connected to the receiver), and excel. If you use the Radio Shack SPL meter, go download the bais offsets speadsheet that is out there on the internet which will correct the SPL's output for the frequency range of the test tone. Personally, I prefer using 1/3 octave pink noise test tones. Sit at your listening position, pull out the measuring tape and measure the distance from the speakers to your ear. If you can, physically move/adjust the speakers so that they are the same distance (again, not always possibly, but it is the preferred method). Otherwise, you need to configure the receiver to tell it either the distances of the speakers, or the delay that you need to place on all the speakers that are closer to you compared to the one farthest away from you (basically, take the distance measurements between the speaker farthest away from you and the one you are currently configuring, let say one speaker is 8 feet 5 inches away, an the other is 10 feet away, which means 19 inches difference. Now you need to figure out how long it would take sound to travel 19 inches, since sound travels at approximately 1126 feet/sec at room temperature in low humidity, it would take 0.0014 seconds for sound to travel that 19 inchs, which means you need to set that as your delay on the closer speaker (note you may also need to add an additional delay due to how long it takes your TV/projector to display the video, but that delay you would place on all the speakers evenly in addition to the delay you just calculated, and that delay can only be found by trial and error, preferably using a audio/video test which flashes the screen in sync to a beat being played on the audio, and you can then fine tune the delay on the speakers so that the audio beat you hear matches when you see the flash on the display). Once you have the distances and delay all worked out, you should work on level matching. Break out the SPL meter and preferably put it on a camera stand/mount (the Radio Shack meter can be attacked to standard camera mounts), and raise it so that it is at ear level with the measuring microphone either pointed straight at your TV or straight up, and start running the frequency sweep pink noise. Measure each speaker individually, and write down the readings of the the different frequencies (preferably into the excel spreadsheet with the offset values). Now you can get by with just using a single white noise tone and just measuring the SPL of that tone on each speaker. And with that white noise test, raise the the sound level of the quieter speaker by the difference between it and the loudest speaker. If you do the full pink noise sweep, those numbers can let you get some hard baseline results for the room response of your speakers so that you can measure the changes that any room treatments provide (like dispersion or absorption panels/traps). You can also potentially use the frequency response values to properly set equalizer settings if your receiver has that functionality, or set dynamic equalizer points as well. The rule of thumb with setting an equalizer is that you should only really try to correct downward, so if you graph the SPL response vs the frequency values, you will wind up with a wavy line, and you want to use the equalizer to pull the higher peaks downward towards the median. Do not try to correct low values that are more than a few decibels below the median, as you can not correct room null points (i.e. where a reflection or standing wave occurs due to the shape of the room and cancels a frequency range at the listening position). Those can only be corrected via physically moving the location of the speakers, listening position, or room treatments to disperse/absorb the reflection(s) used to create the standing wave/null wave.
 

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
After all that - then you can get a reference mic and start tuning the systems frequency response. Fallen hinted at using the EQ settings, but often you can even do funky stuff with the speakers crossover to add a null or a peak here or there. RTA and impulse measurements will let you really get a flat response and identify where your room is lacking.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Way too much work for this. The real issue at hand - possibly a bad receiver, or a crossover on one of the speakers is bad, or one speaker has something wrong causing it to play less loud than it should.

Try headphones to measure your crazy?
 

BTA

Senior member
Jun 7, 2005
862
0
71
I honestly cant figure it out. Play this in stereo and tell me if you hear it in the left speaker more prominently, the right speaker more prominently, or the center (where i'm thinking it should be):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cze-RfsOkkc

I'll provide more info about my setup once i figure out how crazy i am. For reference, i hear it in the right speaker the most, throughout pretty much the entire song.

The thing that drives me nuts is that during some scenes, clearly the same content should be playing in the left and right speakers, AND IT IS, but i hear it predominantly in the right speaker...what i cant figure out, though, is that when i crane my neck to the left or move to the left in front of that speaker, it sounds the same. BUT THE TOE-IN IS THE EXACT SAME!

I have a properly setup stereo speaker system on my PC and took a listen to this. The piano for me is indeed slightly more prominent on the right of the sound stage (mostly the higher notes). The violin is pretty well center with a very slight bias to the right. The lower stringed instrument (not sure what it is I don't listen to orchestral too much) later is almost totally center with a slight left bias, very slight.

If it is is VERY much to the right then there could be a few things going on. First, what speakers do you have? Second, what sort of placement in your room? Can you draw a quick diagram of the walls and placing of the speakers? If your ride side is near a side wall while the other is not you could be getting some reflections. I assume you've already looked at things like, the balance knob on your receiver.

I suggest using some decent headphones to listen to your source material first so you know what you SHOULD be hearing. They don't have to be awesome or anything, just not ear buds or something like that.
 

sleep

Senior member
Aug 23, 2010
582
0
0
This sounds really stupid, I know, but bear with me...I'm coming from using TV speakers all my life so I don't know any better. :p

In trying to figure out if my L/R speakers are the same, or if there's a problem with my receiver, room, whatever, I've come to realize that a lot, if not the vast majority of the time, I hear different stuff from my front L/R.

Is this on purpose, or should the front L/R be the same most of the time?

It's hard for me to grasp this concept since I've not had them separated like this before. This would only make sense to me if they're supposed to blend with each other, and since I'm just sitting too closely to them that I can distinctly hear different things from each speaker that WOULD blend together if I were sitting further away. It's kind of distracting IMO.

Thanks!
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