how often do u have good/bad shifts?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

by bad shift, I mean many things.
it could be something as simple as stalling.
it could be gassing too much or too little while taking off.
it could be blipping too much while trying to rev match on a downshift or heel/toe.
it could be shifting into the wrong gear, e.g. going into 5th when you meant to go into 3rd.

personally, I usually have at least 1 or 2 bad shifts a day, usually of the clutch chatter variety (though I rarely stall).
sometimes it'll be revving too high while starting, or while downshifting.
i would say on avg, 95% good shifts, 5% bad shifts.

 

[MiataNC]

Sounds about right. I average about the same.

The more aggressive you try to drive, and the more technique you attempt to put into it, the more often you will glitch.

 

[Demo24]

depends on what I am doing and what kind of concentration I have on the actual driving.

Stalling- rare, perhaps once every few months. Usually I can catch it before it stalls
takeoffs-probably most common issue, not always easy to get off cleanly in a wrx
rev match- another common one when just driving normally. When aggressive it would be rare to miss one

I honestly can't remember the last time I shifted into the wrong gear. Occasionally it won't go into gear as I expected and I'll let off the clutch too soon.

 

[P0pinjay]

60% of the time, it works everytime

Sorry, it was too easy.

 

[zerocool84]

Probably once a day i might not give it enough gas on take-off and bog a little. I have only missed the wrong gear maybe once or twice ever.

 

[exdeath]

Occasionally I will jam the shifter in between 2nd and 3rd and step on it, and of course I miss the shift and my shifter hand gets disoriented. Then there is a long delay where have to wait for revs to fall and coast a little and re index my shifting hand position before getting it back in gear.

Or my hand and foot are so fast and synchronized, that even when the shifter doesn't quite get in gear or encounters resistance that slows down my shift and "bounces" out of gear, my foot has already come up off the clutch in anticipating of a finished shift and grinding ensues as the shifter is thrown out of gear entirely.

Both happen very rarely and only when I'm shifting hard and in a hurry.

Only have problems stalling when trying to park in the garage from a stop at the base of a steeply inclined driveway. I can't get a rolling start from the street because I'll bottom out or slam the low front end on the edge where the curb ramp meets the flat walkway. There is a fine line between stalling the car and doing a burn out on my driveway, and it usually involves modulating the clutch from the street to the garage.

 

[Abel007]

Originally posted by: P0pinjay
60% of the time, it works everytime

Sorry, it was too easy.

:laugh: :laugh:



To add to the discussion, my car has a gas-by-wire system. I misuse the gas while taking off constantly. It is just difficult to figure out because there is never and tactile feel.

 

[jagec]

Pretty much never when I'm just driving around, maybe once every 30 shifts when driving semi-aggressively. Depending on how strict you are about what constitutes a "clean" shift.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: jagec
Pretty much never when I'm just driving around, maybe once every 30 shifts when driving semi-aggressively. Depending on how strict you are about what constitutes a "clean" shift.

Perfectly rev matched on up and down shifts is clean. I miss a couple a day.

What's worse is really getting on it and missing 3rd, thinking your in gear but the shifter isn't all the way in yet and you slam on the gas, effectively in neutral.

 

[amdhunter]

I am still relatively new, so I make the occasional mistake. It's funny though, after a few months of no stalling or really bad take offs; I bought some new sneakers and stalled the first time I went up a hill on them.

Who knew changing shoes would make so much difference. Since day 1 I've driven with huge Timberland boots, so sneakers felt quite different, lol.

Anyone else experience this?

 

[alimoalem]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
I am still relatively new, so I make the occasional mistake. It's funny though, after a few months of no stalling or really bad take offs; I bought some new sneakers and stalled the first time I went up a hill on them.

Who knew changing shoes would make so much difference. Since day 1 I've driven with huge Timberland boots, so sneakers felt quite different, lol.

Anyone else experience this?

it makes sense if it's for at most the first week i think. you should be used to it after that. i think once you get more experienced, it won't be as drastic. for me, the first 2 shifts might be "different" in normal driving and for aggressive driving, it might take a day to get to or almost to where i was at before.

with regards to the OP, for stalling, idk, maybe once a year? i usually catch it before i stall, which rarely happens. gassing too much is more common...probably once every couple days or so. rev match...couple times a day. wrong gear...like twice in my life.

the OP is kind of vague. when i was learning how to drive stick, if the tires spun in first gear, it would mean i gassed too much. if it didn't, it was a "good" start. now, if i hear the engine while starting in first gear and driving normally, it means i gassed too much. it really depends on what you think is a "good" or "bad" shift.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jagec
Pretty much never when I'm just driving around, maybe once every 30 shifts when driving semi-aggressively. Depending on how strict you are about what constitutes a "clean" shift.

Perfectly rev matched on up and down shifts is clean. I miss a couple a day.

What's worse is really getting on it and missing 3rd, thinking your in gear but the shifter isn't all the way in yet and you slam on the gas, effectively in neutral.

same here. the stick will pop out of 3rd and VROOOOOOOOOOMMMM!!

amdhunter, check out the "driving shoes are cool and don't make you gay at all" thread. adidas and puma seem to be pretty popular with people here.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Don't drive a stick regularly anymore, but when I did I hardly ever did any of the stuff mentioned in the OP. I bought my Jeep in 1986 with under 30k on it, and it needed the trans overhauled...someone had not been nice to it.
The output shaft on the trans finally broke in 1997, at over 100k miles....and I never had rebuilt the trans. It would grind on a 1-2 shift, up or down. You had to shift to second with a rhythm, a bit slower than the rest of the gears, to keep it from grinding. I babied that thing for 11 years. Heck, about half the time I didn't even use the clutch to shift, just to take off.

You guys that mess up as much as I see being admitted to here, that's terrible. I didn't screw up that many shifts in a month, much less per day. Hell, my GF back in the day had a stick car and she never stalled it.

I will say this: It is harder to drive a car with fuel injection and a stick then with a carburetor. The carbs are just more responsive...you can just "feel" what the engine is doing much better. Much easier to accelerate from a stop off-idle with a carb.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Abel007

Originally posted by: P0pinjay
60% of the time, it works everytime

Sorry, it was too easy.

:laugh: :laugh:



To add to the discussion, my car has a gas-by-wire system. I misuse the gas while taking off constantly. It is just difficult to figure out because there is never and tactile feel.

Yeah, since EFI came out sticks were slightly harder to driver, then when they eliminated the accelerator cable, it was just a little harder.
Just not as much feel, as you mentioned. Plus, the engines aren't as responsive.

Take an EFI car, sit there at idle, then jab the gas and let off as fast as you can....an EFI car won't be able to respond to a quick jab like that until you are either almost back off the gas or even completely off. Then it revs up.

Do that to a carb'd car and it responds as soon as you touch the gas. Much less hesitation, making it easier to make those minute corrections when taking off from stops.

 

[alimoalem]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
You guys that mess up as much as I see being admitted to here, that's terrible. I didn't screw up that many shifts in a month, much less per day. Hell, my GF back in the day had a stick car and she never stalled it.

that's why in my post i said it depends on your definition. my definition of a perfect rev match is if you need to be at 3500rpm to do a perfect rev match, 3300 counts as a "bad" shift. to a novice, getting within 1k is probably "ok." too much gas at take off to me means if i need 1500rpm to go and i take off at 1600-1800rpm, yea, no passenger would know the difference but i know that it wasn't what i intended to do so i think of it as a "bad" shift. with a novice, if the car doesn't near-stall or spin the tires, it could be a "good" shift to them.

 

[d33pt]

yeah i gotta admit my carbed samurai was one of the easiest sticks to drive once i got the clutch adjusted right. it wasn't even a hydraulic clutch. it was cable actuated. i taught my wife how to drive a stick with it. the only hard thing about that one was that it didn't have power steering.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

Downshifting before I never used to revv match, nor what the heck revv matching was, so whenever I did I'd get a jerky reaction from the vehicle. Now that I've gotten used to the engine and how it performs and reacts I know approximately what RPM the engine should be at when I downshift from 5-4 or 4-3 or 3-2 and revv match as close to it as possible. Still though, I find that 3-2 shifts are still the jerkiest, even with revv matching.

Only twice have I ever mis-shifted from 4-2. Stalling, maybe once every 3-4 months.

Changing from one pair of shoes to a new pair, or changing vehicles does require a quick adjustment. Some vehicles just have a lighter/heavier clutch pedal feel and a much more narrow point of contact.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: alimoalem

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
You guys that mess up as much as I see being admitted to here, that's terrible. I didn't screw up that many shifts in a month, much less per day. Hell, my GF back in the day had a stick car and she never stalled it.

that's why in my post i said it depends on your definition. my definition of a perfect rev match is if you need to be at 3500rpm to do a perfect rev match, 3300 counts as a "bad" shift. to a novice, getting within 1k is probably "ok." too much gas at take off to me means if i need 1500rpm to go and i take off at 1600-1800rpm, yea, no passenger would know the difference but i know that it wasn't what i intended to do so i think of it as a "bad" shift. with a novice, if the car doesn't near-stall or spin the tires, it could be a "good" shift to them.

I had to rev-match my Jeep, or it would grind. (1-2) So yeah, that's what I meant. To me it's easier to do with a carb engine. One reason is the quicker response, as I mentioned previously, another reason is there's no idle speed control on the carb engine, so the engine revs will go up/down solely based on what you do with the skinny pedal.

 

[Pollock]

I don't really ever stall or shift into the wrong gear anymore. However, I wouldn't say the vast majority of my shifts are buttery smooth. Maybe my transmission is finicky or I'm just not very good with stick, but I have to be attentive or else I'll feel some resistance or clunking when letting the clutch out. A lot of times I just stay in a higher gear when coasting, so that I don't botch a downshift at too high RPMs. :shrug;

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jagec
Pretty much never when I'm just driving around, maybe once every 30 shifts when driving semi-aggressively. Depending on how strict you are about what constitutes a "clean" shift.

Perfectly rev matched on up and down shifts is clean. I miss a couple a day.

What's worse is really getting on it and missing 3rd, thinking your in gear but the shifter isn't all the way in yet and you slam on the gas, effectively in neutral.

I doubt that anyone will get a "perfect" rev-match a single time in their life...technically it's always off by a few RPMs or tenths of RPMs. But as long as you get very close to that perfect mark, it will be indistinguishable from a truly "perfect" shift. The problem is that this is not a hard and firm line...one man's "perfect" shift might be a less-than-perfect shift to someone else, because the synchro moved just a little to take up the difference.

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
I will say this: It is harder to drive a car with fuel injection and a stick then with a carburetor. The carbs are just more responsive...you can just "feel" what the engine is doing much better. Much easier to accelerate from a stop off-idle with a carb.

Not to mention that there is often a "jump" between zero throttle and tiny throttle openings which makes low-speed driving jerky if you don't feather the clutch at times.

 

[spidey07]

Jagec,

You're correct. Practically impossible for a perfect shift that has zero slip. I'd say within 50 rpm is a "good" shift, heck maybe even 100. If you can move between 3 gears with no acceleration or deceleration of the car than that is pretty good.

So picture putting a cup of water on the dash and moving between three gears, if you don't spill the water those are good shifts.

I'm surprised nobody has jumped on me for needing to revmatch on an upshift because this often causes confusion.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: spidey07
So picture putting a cup of water on the dash and moving between three gears, if you don't spill the water those are good shifts.

I'm surprised nobody has jumped on me for needing to revmatch on an upshift because this often causes confusion.

It only causes confusion because most people tend to naturally upshift at a speed which puts them in gear at the right RPM, since that causes the least amount of jerking. Only those who drive very large vehicles (like semis), vehicles with lightened flywheels, or very fast shifters tend to think about where the RPMs are on an upshift.

The "cup of water" is actually a pretty good criteria for a "good" shift, although people will still debate how much water should be in it.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: spidey07
So picture putting a cup of water on the dash and moving between three gears, if you don't spill the water those are good shifts.

I'm surprised nobody has jumped on me for needing to revmatch on an upshift because this often causes confusion.

It only causes confusion because most people tend to naturally upshift at a speed which puts them in gear at the right RPM, since that causes the least amount of jerking. Only those who drive very large vehicles (like semis), vehicles with lightened flywheels, or very fast shifters tend to think about where the RPMs are on an upshift.

The "cup of water" is actually a pretty good criteria for a "good" shift, although people will still debate how much water should be in it.

yeah, but an upshift done well can be so utterly beautiful. If the passenger can't feel the shift then that is a good shift. What people struggle with is the 1-2 or 2-3 to really get it smooth. 6-3 can be unusual for some as well, same with 4-2 or 2-4.

I was told and taught by my racing father long ago, a perfect shift is one that you don't feel.

If you can truly move between 3 gears and maintain the same velocity then you've got it down.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: spidey07
yeah, but an upshift done well can be so utterly beautiful. If the passenger can't feel the shift then that is a good shift. What people struggle with is the 1-2 or 2-3 to really get it smooth. 6-3 can be unusual for some as well, same with 4-2 or 2-4.

I was told and taught by my racing father long ago, a perfect shift is one that you don't feel.

If you can truly move between 3 gears and maintain the same velocity then you've got it down.

Oh, I agree; but most people don't even realize that you DO need to "revmatch" to upshift, since the engine RPM drops automatically when you take your foot off the gas. But if you can modulate the clutch well so as to avoid any jerking...

 

[cKGunslinger]

I've stalled twice in my car in the 2 months I've had it. Both of them when backing out of a space, then putting it in first. Both of them in the Fry's parking lot.