How not to be poor

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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How not to be poor
Walter E. Williams

May 11, 2005

Ministers Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Washington, D.C.'s Mayor Anthony Williams and others recently met to discuss plans to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the October 1995 Million Man March. Whilst reading about the plans, I thought of an excellent topic for the event: how not to be poor.

Avoiding long-term poverty is not rocket science. First, graduate from high school. Second, get married before you have children, and stay married. Third, work at any kind of job, even one that starts out paying the minimum wage. And, finally, avoid engaging in criminal behavior. If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, in most places in our country there's a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills.

Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

The Children's Defense Fund and civil rights organizations frequently whine about the number of black children living in poverty. In 1999, the Bureau of the Census reported that 33.1 percent of black children lived in poverty compared with 13.5 percent of white children. It turns out that race per se has little to do with the difference. Instead, it's welfare and single parenthood. When black children are compared to white children living in identical circumstances, mainly in a two-parent household, both children will have the same probability of being poor.

How much does racial discrimination explain? So far as black poverty is concerned, I'd say little or nothing, which is not to say that every vestige of racial discrimination has been eliminated. But let's pose a few questions. Is it racial discrimination that stops black students from studying and completing high school? Is it racial discrimination that's responsible for the 68 percent illegitimacy rate among blacks?

The 1999 Bureau of Census report might raise another racial discrimination question. Among black households that included a married couple, over 50 percent were middle class earning above $50,000, and 26 percent earned more than $75,000. How in the world did these black families manage not to be poor? Did America's racists cut them some slack?

The civil rights struggle is over, and it has been won. At one time, black Americans did not have the same constitutional protections as whites. Now, we do, because the civil rights struggle is over and won is not the same as saying that there are not major problems for a large segment of the black community. What it does say is that they're not civil rights problems, and to act as if they are leads to a serious misallocation of resources.

Rotten education is a severe handicap to upward mobility, but is it a civil rights problem? Let's look at it. Washington, D.C. public schools, as well as many other big city schools, are little more than educational cesspools. Per student spending in Washington, D.C., is just about the highest in the nation. D.C.'s mayors have been black, and so have a large percentage of the city council, school principals, teachers and superintendents. Suggesting that racial discrimination plays any part in Washington, D.C.'s educational calamity is near madness and diverts attention away from possible solutions.

Bill Cosby had the courage to speak out against individual irresponsibility. Surely those who profess to have the best interests of blacks at heart should be able to summon the courage to do so as well.

Link

The war on poverty and the $5 trillion or so in retransfer of wealth has obiously been an abject failure, so how can a person avoid being poor?

This article shows the way and it isn't that difficult!

 

EatSpam

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May 1, 2005
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Shouldn't you pray a lot too? and try to ban birth control? That'd make god happy and lift you out of poverty, right, Rippy?
 

jimkyser

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Nov 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

Well Walter forgot one little detail here. See if I have a family of 4 and both mom and dad are working for minimum wage, some of that $21,000 is going to go to childcare for the 2 children. Good luck finding decent childcare for two kids for $2190/year. So I've just pushed myself back under the poverty line.
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

Well Walter forgot one little detail here. See if I have a family of 4 and both mom and dad are working for minimum wage, some of that $21,000 is going to go to childcare for the 2 children. Good luck finding decent childcare for two kids for $2190/year. So I've just pushed myself back under the poverty line.

One spouse works during the day and the other at night. Problem solved.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
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haha. I'd love to see a family of 2 try to live on 21,000/year in this area. even in the ghettoest ghetto, I don't think it could be done without also applying for welfare, food stamps, or section 8.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

Well Walter forgot one little detail here. See if I have a family of 4 and both mom and dad are working for minimum wage, some of that $21,000 is going to go to childcare for the 2 children. Good luck finding decent childcare for two kids for $2190/year. So I've just pushed myself back under the poverty line.

One spouse works during the day and the other at night. Problem solved.

I like to see my wife. But that would be ok for you, since rumor has, you don't really like your wife much.
 

Stunt

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Jul 17, 2002
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If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, in most places in our country there's a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills.
So you support government subsidized post secondary education?
 
Jun 8, 2005
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If you work 40hrs a week every week in the year at 5.15 an hour you would only have $10,712 a year before taxes. You would have to work 80hrs a week just to make 21424 before taxes.

40hrs X 52 weeks X $5.15 = $10,712

Edit: Sorry I miss read you original post. The 21000 was for a man and wife. But if you weren't married you would be fvcked.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,883
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

Well Walter forgot one little detail here. See if I have a family of 4 and both mom and dad are working for minimum wage, some of that $21,000 is going to go to childcare for the 2 children. Good luck finding decent childcare for two kids for $2190/year. So I've just pushed myself back under the poverty line.

One spouse works during the day and the other at night. Problem solved.

So while one is working during the day, the one who worked all night needs to stay up all day to watch the kids. Problem not solved, try again.

Apparently child care subsidies are out of the question, since that's "wealth redistribution". And god knows that having a purely capitalistic society is more important than the stability of families.

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

Well Walter forgot one little detail here. See if I have a family of 4 and both mom and dad are working for minimum wage, some of that $21,000 is going to go to childcare for the 2 children. Good luck finding decent childcare for two kids for $2190/year. So I've just pushed myself back under the poverty line.

One spouse works during the day and the other at night. Problem solved.

I like to see my wife. But that would be ok for you, since rumor has, you don't really like your wife much.
Amazing how the opposition constantly feels the need to turn every Rip thread into an onslaught of personal attacks.

Why don't you address the actual topic, without the ad homs, or kindly STFU?
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Most jobs start with wages higher than the minimum wage, which is currently $5.15. A man and his wife, even earning the minimum wage, would earn $21,000 annually. According to the Bureau of Census, in 2003, the poverty threshold for one person was $9,393, for a two-person household it was $12,015, and for a family of four it was $18,810. Taking a minimum-wage job is no great shakes, but it produces an income higher than the Bureau of Census' poverty threshold. Plus, having a job in the first place increases one's prospects for a better job.

Well Walter forgot one little detail here. See if I have a family of 4 and both mom and dad are working for minimum wage, some of that $21,000 is going to go to childcare for the 2 children. Good luck finding decent childcare for two kids for $2190/year. So I've just pushed myself back under the poverty line.

One spouse works during the day and the other at night. Problem solved.

I like to see my wife. But that would be ok for you, since rumor has, you don't really like your wife much.
Amazing how the opposition constantly feels the need to turn every Rip thread into an onslaught of personal attacks.

Why don't you address the actual topic, without the ad homs, or kindly STFU?


How about Rippy's posts are all completely retarded, for lack of better word. There's a reason why most of people here doesn't take his post seriously anymore.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Stunt
If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, in most places in our country there's a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills.
So you support government subsidized post secondary education?

That's an interesting topic. You should start a thread to discuss it.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Stunt
If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, in most places in our country there's a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills.
So you support government subsidized post secondary education?

That's an interesting topic. You should start a thread to discuss it.
It's part of your proposed plan.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Stunt
If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, in most places in our country there's a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills.
So you support government subsidized post secondary education?

That's an interesting topic. You should start a thread to discuss it.
It's part of your proposed plan.

Here's the proposed plan:

First, graduate from high school. Second, get married before you have children, and stay married. Third, work at any kind of job, even one that starts out paying the minimum wage. And, finally, avoid engaging in criminal behavior.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
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Originally posted by: razor2025
How about Rippy's posts are all completely retarded, for lack of better word. There's a reason why most of people here doesn't take his post seriously anymore.
Actually, this is a rather good topic. The problem is obivously that some people take issue with Rip's beliefs and attempt to turn any topic he posts into a slagfest. I don't necessarily agree with his beliefs either, but lighten up.

Aren't you folks supposed to be the non-judgemental ones? All for freedom of speech and expression? If so, your actions sure as hell don't back up your hollow words.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
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To be poor in America still lifts you above at least 70% of the world's population. Many many peoples don't have running water, a roof made of anything more than garbage, and enough clothes to properly cover themselves. If you work at Wally World, and are making rent, and feeding and clothing yourself, consider yourself rich, and don't play the ratrace game. The rest is just stuff.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Riprorin
One spouse works during the day and the other at night. Problem solved.

So while one is working during the day, the one who worked all night needs to stay up all day to watch the kids. Problem not solved, try again.

Many people do that.

CsG
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
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71
Let's say Joe was your lab rat doing your "I'm not poor" routine. I will put some conditions first. Since your post say "no redistribution of wealth", I'm going to deny Joe any public services (homeless shelter, community toilet/bath, food bank) since they all involve "retransfer of wealth" in some degree. We also have to give Joe a healthy life. I don't consider living on 3 loaves of $1 bread a week possible, so let's not go there. We're also basing Joe's income inline with your article.

Income:
40hrs X 52 weeks X $5.15 = $10,712 <-income pre-tax. Let's just say for argument sake, his tax is minimal. Since he's barely above poverty line.

Expenses:
$5 x 365 for food. I think $5 is barely possible (health wise). Joe's daily lunch would probably have to include the 99cent Ramen noodle.
$700 x 12 for Apartment rent. This varies hugely by region, but apartment in my area are going for this rate MINIMUM. I'm also including water + electricity for simplicity.


With just those 2 lines, Joe's already paid $10225. And that's just for F*CKING FOOD AND SHELTER ALONE. Do you know what else Joe needs that I haven't added?

Car/bike/public transportation fee. How often can you find a job at a walking distance? If car is needed, add insurance.
Bill for doctor, hospital. Joe isn't immortal. This can ge astronomical.
Entertainment. You can only hurmor yourself so much by reading newspaper from trash dump.
Cloths + detergent + laundry money (if Apartment provides coin-op machines).
Furnishing for apartment. Please dont' say Joe just needs to sleep on the floor. Although costs can be kept down, if Joe hunts @ Salvation Army.

There's tons more neccessities Joe will need that I haven't listed. Even if Joe got married to Jane, and both of them made the same amount, the situation hasn't changed because the requirement has just been double. Add kids, and now you have liability that brings in NO INCOME, unless you believe in child labor. It's clearly evident that to NOT have poverty, it takes ALOT more than minimum wage. Your argument is as always, complete BS.


 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
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Originally posted by: judasmachine
To be poor in America still lifts you above at least 70% of the world's population. Many many peoples don't have running water, a roof made of anything more than garbage, and enough clothes to properly cover themselves. If you work at Wally World, and are making rent, and feeding and clothing yourself, consider yourself rich, and don't play the ratrace game. The rest is just stuff.

I hope you're not serious about that. Last time I checked, we wanted to improve the world's standard NOT lower our standard to that of third world country.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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It's a good plan for those who can stick to it. Unfortunately 12% or more people live below poverty, how do you suggest we deal with this? You plan has little or no effect in the real world, unless you commit to a large government initiated education process.

Sorry to seem negative, just realistically considering your proposal.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
really, one medical emergency and you're screwed if you're living paycheck to paycheck and don't have insurance. and it's just about impossible to find a job once you're homeless without public assistance (what will you do? show up to an interview without having showered or changed your clothes in weeks? you wouldn't make it pass the lobby.)
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
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Originally posted by: razor2025
Originally posted by: judasmachine
To be poor in America still lifts you above at least 70% of the world's population. Many many peoples don't have running water, a roof made of anything more than garbage, and enough clothes to properly cover themselves. If you work at Wally World, and are making rent, and feeding and clothing yourself, consider yourself rich, and don't play the ratrace game. The rest is just stuff.

I hope you're not serious about that. Last time I checked, we wanted to improve the world's standard NOT lower our standard to that of third world country.

So? Why should the poor masses all strive for a more expensive car, or a wider TV, or any of that crap that doesn't make anyone or anything any better than the numbers being thrown around?

People die, it's the only thing we do right.