How much would you charge to install a patch panel, etc etc?edit: update jan12 w/ pics

[ejoech]

edit: scroll down for new pics...

I installed a patch panel into a pre-wired house for a client of mine. The only thing that was in place before I came in were the CAT5s wired throughout the house. She liked the job that I did and wanted me to do the same thing at her office(She owns a real estate company). A few months before she met me, she had someone do their office and they've been having a lot of problems with it. Also, she says the guy is an asshole and I'm much easier to deal with. I went into the office yesterday to take a look at what the other guy installed. I found a very sloppy and crappy job...So anyway, my job is to come in, install a patch panel, clean everything up, run a couple more lines, and get their network stable. I originally charged her $300 to do the job on her house which included all equipment...came out to be around $50 profit. I got ripped off..I ended up doing a LOT of extra work.

Here are a few pictures of the job I did on her house:

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Here is a picture of the crappy job the guy did at her office:

1 (note, he ran the CAT5 directly from the router to the computer itself, and added his own RJ45s to the ends)

And here is what I have to work with..
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So, any equipment aside, how much do you think I should charge roughly?

 

[cmetz]

$125/hr + (materials + 20% overhead) is common around here.

 

[ejoech]

That seems like a lot..at that rate i REALLY got ripped off when I originally did her house.

Any other opinions?

 

[Soybomb]

Sounds about right to me. My work gets billed out at $70 an hour with parts +20%, and we're in a very economically depressed are with low wages and the like.

 

[ScottMac]

Are those staples holding the cables in the first three pics?

If it's a given that this is not your primary vocation (just "side work"), I'd suggest something like $25.00 / Hr + Parts (with a premium added for having to get the parts, depending on where you get 'em and how much hassle it is).

I'd also sugggest losing the staples, if that's what you've been using. Try some slotted channel (like a square tube with a cover, the side being slotted for passage of the cables). Even "cable staples" tend to compress the jacketing of the cable, which can affect the performance. Cable staples are OK for phone, usually not suggested for data cbling.

Adhesive anchors are also a good thing. They're little stick-on flat things with slots on the top for cable ties. Stick 'em where you need 'em, then anchor the cables down with cable ties.

Also remember, since you are doing this for money, you are responsible and liable for any damages, as well as the performance of the system when you are done. You may want to do a "scope of work" document that the customer signs (before you start). A scope of work defines exactly what work is being contracted, and what parameters define when the job is done.

Good Luck

Scott

 

[ejoech]

Thanks Scott. I'm being honest when I say I have very little experience doing this kind of work, so your post is exactly what I needed. Where can I pick up some of those things you suggested, instead of using staples?

Thank you thank you.

 

[ScottMac]

If you can find an electronics store (not Radio Shack) they would have cable managment stuff. Home Depot, Maynards ... places like that have stuff like this too most of the time.

Check for "electrical / electronics supply" in the local yellow pages.

Good Luck

Scott

 

[ejoech]

Thanks. I'll head over to Home Depot and see what they have. Do you have any pictures of some good cable management? Sorry if I'm bothering you too much - I appreciate it a lot

 

[cmetz]

ejoech, Anixter and Greybar are two professional suppliers and they seem to have locations in every major city. If you get a good sales person at either, they'll be happy to help you figure out what exact parts you need, too.

ScottMac, your labor rate strikes me as very low. It's important not to short-change on labor. Even if this is a "side" activity. There's a very real opportunity cost to going out and doing cable jobs when you could be doing what it is you really do. The most common error I see in small business is people short-changing themselves and not making sure they're getting paid properly for their time. The moment you're charging for labor, you're also talking about billing, accounting, taxes, and all that fun... which introduces a nontrivial amount of overhead. That is an expense between gross profit and net profit which could easily put him in the hole on this past job. He should charge a fair labor rate and do the best job he can. If he's just starting out on this and learning, maybe then it's fair for him to discount the rate some, but he needs to make sure the exercise is profitable for him.

A cheezy but effective trick I use for cable mounting is to get a high-power staple gun and cable ties. Lay the cable tie on a surface flat with the zip nubbie towards the surface, and staple twice around the middle of the tie. Now you can slap your cable near the staples and close the tie. This is not what I would call the professional solution, but for many home or small office environments you don't really have a choice about doing a less than perfect job, and this is simple and neat. Works great wherever there's wood, which is fairly common in home and small office environments. (This trick mostly does NOT work on metal stud + drywall commercial interiors)

 

[ScottMac]

Well, YES!! , the labor rates I suggested ARE real low - he's a n00b at cabling (no offense ejoech). If the customer was willing to pay Professional rates, then they'd hire a Pro and get it done by-the-book.

The suggestion was to charge at a rate consistant with his experience, get a premium for the parts (to cover finding and fetching), and get the job done. If the customer is happy, he gets ~$50-100 bucks and some spare parts ... not a bad deal.

I have also used staples and cable ties as you've described, but the picture is showing drywall ... staples don't bite in drywall worth a damn. Adhesive anchors stick to almost anything. You strike a line with a level, stick a few anchors, and strap (but not too tightly) the cable to the anchor .... piece of cake, and it looks pretty good.

Personally, on a wooden backboard, I've been known to staple some velcro cable straps to the board, then get some serious bondage on the cableage (and you don't slice your fingers up on the cut ends)..

There are a zillion ways to get the job done, depending on what you have to work with. The first pictures show he's got the right idea, it looks pretty good ... but it's not a professional-level job and (IMHO) shouldn't be charged at professional rates.

Just my opinion ...

Scott

 

[ejoech]

Scott - I appreciate the constructive criticism. That's exactly what I need. In the pictures of the job I already did, there was only drywall already there..I added the black panel to make it look nicer, and also so I could staple and install the patch panel easier. It fit easy because of the shelves.

If you have any ideas, please post. What would make it look more professional, aside from not using the staples?

And yes, I am very much a n00b. No offense taken.

 

[ejoech]

Thank you everyone for the input.

What method would be the most professional way to install the new patch panel in the space that I'm working with?

Wall mounted rack?

 

[ScottMac]

There's a couple ways:

Ther are wall-mount racks from one unit to maybe 12 units high. A one unit wall-mount is ~$25.00 or so (then add the cost of the panels, cable mgmt, etc)

For low density setups, there are punchdown blocks with a row of RJ45 jacks that will mount directly to the wall (drywall: use anchors!). I believe you can get these units for up to 12 ports, typical is 6 - 8 ports (basically combining the panel and punchdown in one unit). Total cost is probably in the neighborhood of $50.00.

Sorry to be fuzzy on the prices, I haven't shopped for this stuff in quite a while.

Good Luck

Scott

 

[ejoech]

Thanks. So I could get a 2U wall mounted rack, install the patch panel in the first unit and then a shelf on the second unit to hold the cable modem and router?

Scott, I can't thank you enough for your time.

 

[ScottMac]

Yessir, that should work.

If you're going for a two unit ("RU" - Rack Unit), you may want to look at a four, it'll give you a little more concealed space behind the panel, and another shelf space for accessories, rack mount power strip/surge bar, and some cable management accessories (and label space ... LABEL EVERYTHING CLEARLY ... the mark of a pro ).

Glad I can be of assistance.

Take care

Scott

 

[ejoech]

Scott, I apologize if these are some pretty ignorant questions, but I had a couple more...

If you head over to...

http://www.chatsworth.com/main.asp?id=92

and scroll down, you'll notice the hinged wall brackets and flush mounted wall brackets. What kind of situation would call for using one of them over the other? Also, under hinged wall brackets there is a hinged panel mounting bracket and a hinged wall-mount bracket.

Thank you again, so much

 

[p0lar]

There is some good information here. Dead on with the staples - lose them for almost any job, unless you're going to nail down some tie wraps or another form of cord (velcro, et al). That's ok though, you're learning. The mounting job, given what you had to work with, looked good!

I'd recommend a two stage solution. It's a common practice to keep your wiring terminations separate from your equipment, but expense can vary depending upon solution. A small 4U 19" wall-mount cabling attachment would work great. It's not very deep so it won't protrude much. Depending upon your equipment, you might consider a closed shelf with doors if it's not rack-mountable. If it is, you could buy an all-in-one rack-mount for the wall and do your cabling and equipment in the same, but that can get messy. Those who take proper care of their cabling, I've found, take proper care of their network in general. The lateral closed-covers also will make the job look professional.

A quick example of mine from the back...of course, it's in a full-size rack.

Another thing - replace that cable that's marked 'three' on that linksys router - it's a problem waiting to happen. At least snip off that poorly made connector and re-do it. Have a maximum of 1/2" untwisted pairs with the crimp on the jacket (not conductors!!) and all conductors at the very edge of connector. There's a bit more to it, but that'll keep you going down the straight & narrow with connectors for now.

Post back with some 'after' pics!

 

[ejoech]

Yeah, I'll definately be losing the staples. That just shows my lack of experience. I was browsing Home Depot and I found these..

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0624777818.1071879432@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdgadckeljegjgcgelceffdfgidgml.0&MID=9876

I didn't pick them up because I wasn't exactly sure how well they would work..but thought they were interesting. Has anyone ever used them??

That's a pretty insane wiring job there, p0lar. What are they all for?

Yeah, I know that the line marked "three" should not be like that..I did not do that installation, they are now having problems with the computer connected to line three..not my fault, it's the guy that they paid to do it before..

They said they paid the guy a lot of money, and he sure did a crappy job..i wonder how much they paid him

 

[p0lar]

That was actually one of two cabinets like that. A third was located in a different closet, connected via fibre to the first two since many of its nodes were well beyond the 100m mark.

Those are just workstation connections - boring work, honestly, but it has to be done and it has to be done right. To have someone come in to do that can be very expensive. Upon second thought, though, I should have broken one branch down one side, then the other down the other, etc. so that I had two long slender towers down both sides, but.. whatever, it is still quite manageable and appearance-wise isn't bad.

 

[ejoech]

Hey guys, well, after all this time..I FINALLY went and did the job today

Here are the pics..please post constructive criticism..suggestions..etc

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I ended up having to run some more wires through the ceiling and such..oh well. It took my father and I(hes a carpenter, so he helped out with some of the mounting/cutting/etc etc) 5 hours to do..I made around $375 profit.

My only complaint was that the shelf was huge. The shelf was 19" deep, while the bracket itself is only 4". Where can I find a smaller shelf? I looked but I couldn't find anything smaller.

Ok, go ahead and post comments now.

 

[Thoreau]

Originally posted by: ejoech
Hey guys, well, after all this time..I FINALLY went and did the job today

Here are the pics..please post constructive criticism..suggestions..etc

1
2
3
4
5


I ended up having to run some more wires through the ceiling and such..oh well. It took my father and I(hes a carpenter, so he helped out with some of the mounting/cutting/etc etc) 5 hours to do..I made around $375 profit.

My only complaint was that the shelf was huge. The shelf was 19" deep, while the bracket itself is only 4". Where can I find a smaller shelf? I looked but I couldn't find anything smaller.

Ok, go ahead and post comments now.

Not a bad job at all. Makes me want to straighten out my home network now, lol. Wonder how the apartment complex would like it if I anchored networking equipment into the closets and drilled holes to run cat 5.