How much would it cost for a campus to go wireless?

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Assuming they are wired right now (to every dorm room, apartment, etc). For on campus use in classrooms, outside, etc.


Just curious. I work for Resnet at my school and was wondering what it would cost to go wireless.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: dxkj
Assuming they are wired right now (to every dorm room, apartment, etc). For on campus use in classrooms, outside, etc.


Just curious. I work for Resnet at my school and was wondering what it would cost to go wireless.

a few million, not including wireless cards. Just the infrastructure, power, placement, accesspoints, management and security.

I'm only including one time capital expense. Throw in maybe 150K for contract maintenance and another 360K for three full time employees to support it. 800K for project management/planning.

This is just a wild guess that "could" be close depending on the size of the campus.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
You could come up with a pricing model based on full coverage. Just figure out how much each wireless cell would cost.

AP, cabling, power, power injection, antenna, install/testing labor = priece per wireless cell or "price to get radio on the cell". I'm guessing around 3-4000 bucks per.
Estimate backend security system, maybe about 100-150K
Add all the other extra goodies I described my other post above.

That would enable a better cost estimate. Just remember how small a wireless cell really is. A medium sized campus starts at around 1000 cells.

If you would like to bid the project please submit confidential RFP to spidey07@anandtech. Our combined expertise will ensure a stable, secure wireless network enabling your students to download pr0n and pirated music/video from anywhere on campus.

JackMDS will cover documentation and labor managment
KTwebb will site-survey and cell design/coverage
NocMonkey will install two radius servers on BSD
Garion will handle authentication and security
ScottMac will oversee cabling, power and code compliance for outdoor structures.
Spidey will be the project manager

Each lead will have a contract team at their disposal (except nocmonkey, he's stuck in the NOC.) Each team is meant to be cross-functional and will NOT work independantly of each other. For example the authentication and security decisions will be made by the whole project team (except nocmonkey). Any disagreement over technology/strategy direction of particular lead must be carried with 60% majority, otherwise team lead has final call and carries a weight of three heads.

I can guarantee you will not find a better group of seasoned veterans with over 150 years of experience to manage the distribution of pr0n on your campus.

:)

 

Soybomb

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
9,506
2
81
Can I stand around and drink caffeined beverages? $40 an hour would cover it.
 

RedFox1

Senior member
Aug 22, 2000
587
0
76
Hmmm...that sounds prohibitively high...especially when the campus is already wired.

My alma mater (~4000 residents) installed wireless in a few locations on campus during my senior year. (Campus coffee house and the student center/cafeterias.)

The rest of the campus and classrooms already had wired connections at each seat -- the locations they installed wireless were the areas most likely to have people sitting around in informal situations with notebooks.

I didn't get the impression it was a major project for them, and didn't require much upkeep. (only a few access points). Extending the wireless network beyond that wouldn't have had many benefits anyhow.

Maybe your school could try a smaller project like that first.

-Russ
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: groovin
lol

good reminder of all the knowledge in this forum!

Redfox,

I'm talking about full campus coverage of a medium sized campus of about 30,000 students. that would perform well.
 

Garion

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2001
2,331
7
81
Installing and maintaining a wireless network is much more complex than a traditional wired network, from the technical side. (not counting the sweat work of running the cable)

You've got do a HUGE amount of planning and make some tough decisions - Do you want to do MAC address filtering, forcing each user to register their card? Do you want to try to run some kind of VPN tunnel across the air link for security, authentication, and user tracking? If you do the former, you have to come up with a way to manage 5,000+ MAC addresses and distribute them across the network. If you do the latter, you have to deal with never-ending client issues with the VPN software. (And it breaks a lot of other stuff)

Since you're going to be sharing a single 11 or 54Mb/s point between a bunch of people, how do you fairly split the bandwidth, or do you even bother? Dedicated 100Mb/s is much easier to deal with.

In the installation, you have to deal with the design work of placement of the antennas. You have to consider coverage, interference sources, # users per AP, etc. You've got to come up with some way to get power out there (usually by using a switch with inline power like Cisco or a Cat5 power extender). You've got to get them installed, tested, etc. (That's the easy part).

Security is also huge. How do you keep your wireless traffic from getting intercepted? How do you make sure that only authorized machines use it? After all, you don't want that high school sophmore with a laptop hanging around the quad to try to hack into the FBI, on your circuits.

From a management perspective, you need to come up with some way to support all of this mess. You've converted your network from 1 active switch per building to 15+ access points, each with a much lower MBTF, PLUS the switch. Figure you're going to blow one of them per week or so. Dealing with penetration attempts from war drivers will also be fun. THEN take into account the MAC address database you'd need to support this. How many people would this all take?

There ARE products to help automate some of this and increase security - Wavelink makes Mobile Manager, which has some pretty good tricks. But it's price.

Trust me on this, it's not a trivial undertaking of slapping up some AP's and calling it good. That's absolutely inviting a huge disaster and major potential legal issues when someone takes advantage of your open Access points. I was involved in designing the network infrastructure, encryption scheme and authentication for my organization's deployment of a mobile infrastructure that will eventually be deployed to 2,800 sites that carries a great deal of confidential data about our customers (like ATM card numbers, PIN codes, account information, name/address/ssn, etc.). It was a heck of a fun project, but the network was pretty heinous and even the pilot cost a HUGE chunk of change. Obviously, I'm not a wireless expert, so we brought in some real pros to handle that aspect of it. We found that running a VPN client on a PocketPC across a wireless network is a bit challenging.

I'd say that Spidey is pretty close with his estimates - The only thing I'd add would be that the cost of the management software and custom development efforts would be significant and pricey, unless you can find something off-the-shelf that meets your needs.

One last recommendation - If you do it, try and look for a full solution from a vendor. AP's, NIC's, management software, etc. Symbol has some nice service offerings, and the partnership of Wavelink and Cisco is pretty slick, too. Cisco has the advantage ofLEAP built into their AP's and cards. That helps alleviate a lot of the issues with WEP.

- G
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
not to bash spidey ;) but my brother's company of which a subsidiary I work for won #1 WISP (Wireless ISP) last year.

He's a CCIE and knows his stuff even sleeping....went from no cert to full CCIE in like 1 year...of course he was doing 'it' since 1983 like me, only I thought 'college' was the way to go :(.

He is also a macintosh and linux master + anything an ISP needs, his original start was a several phone line dial up out of his own apartment when USR 33.6K racks were in the day :).


Chris
 

ITJunkie

Platinum Member
Apr 17, 2003
2,512
0
76
www.techange.com
Originally posted by: spidey07
You could come up with a pricing model based on full coverage. Just figure out how much each wireless cell would cost.

AP, cabling, power, power injection, antenna, install/testing labor = priece per wireless cell or "price to get radio on the cell". I'm guessing around 3-4000 bucks per.
Estimate backend security system, maybe about 100-150K
Add all the other extra goodies I described my other post above.

That would enable a better cost estimate. Just remember how small a wireless cell really is. A medium sized campus starts at around 1000 cells.

If you would like to bid the project please submit confidential RFP to spidey07@anandtech. Our combined expertise will ensure a stable, secure wireless network enabling your students to download pr0n and pirated music/video from anywhere on campus.

JackMDS will cover documentation and labor managment
KTwebb will site-survey and cell design/coverage
NocMonkey will install two radius servers on BSD
Garion will handle authentication and security
ScottMac will oversee cabling, power and code compliance for outdoor structures.
Spidey will be the project manager

Each lead will have a contract team at their disposal (except nocmonkey, he's stuck in the NOC.) Each team is meant to be cross-functional and will NOT work independantly of each other. For example the authentication and security decisions will be made by the whole project team (except nocmonkey). Any disagreement over technology/strategy direction of particular lead must be carried with 60% majority, otherwise team lead has final call and carries a weight of three heads.

I can guarantee you will not find a better group of seasoned veterans with over 150 years of experience to manage the distribution of pr0n on your campus.

:)

Screw that....I'll do it for $59.95 :D
 

nightowl

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2000
1,935
0
0
Just to throw in some numbers for a campus of about 40,000 students.

Here at Purdue:

- We have approximately 1200 APs on campus, most are Cisco 1200s
- There are also 2 VPN concentrators to authenticate all of the wireless users on campus
- There is also special drops for each AP so they are located out of the way
- Various switching and routing for the wireless network
- Most of this is in place with existing hardware with the use of VLANs and trunks
- Power, all of the APs have power over ethernet
- Site surveys are done for every building to determine optimal coverage.

So, it is not just slapping up APs to get them to work. There is a hug amount of work that goes into planning, installing and maintaining the wireless network. Also, I have not even covered issues such as QOS that we are looking at for wireless VOIP.
 

SaigonK

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2001
7,482
3
0
www.robertrivas.com
Originally posted by: spidey07
You could come up with a pricing model based on full coverage. Just figure out how much each wireless cell would cost. AP, cabling, power, power injection, antenna, install/testing labor = priece per wireless cell or "price to get radio on the cell". I'm guessing around 3-4000 bucks per. Estimate backend security system, maybe about 100-150K Add all the other extra goodies I described my other post above. That would enable a better cost estimate. Just remember how small a wireless cell really is. A medium sized campus starts at around 1000 cells. If you would like to bid the project please submit confidential RFP to spidey07@anandtech. Our combined expertise will ensure a stable, secure wireless network enabling your students to download pr0n and pirated music/video from anywhere on campus. JackMDS will cover documentation and labor managment KTwebb will site-survey and cell design/coverage NocMonkey will install two radius servers on BSD Garion will handle authentication and security ScottMac will oversee cabling, power and code compliance for outdoor structures. Spidey will be the project manager Each lead will have a contract team at their disposal (except nocmonkey, he's stuck in the NOC.) Each team is meant to be cross-functional and will NOT work independantly of each other. For example the authentication and security decisions will be made by the whole project team (except nocmonkey). Any disagreement over technology/strategy direction of particular lead must be carried with 60% majority, otherwise team lead has final call and carries a weight of three heads. I can guarantee you will not find a better group of seasoned veterans with over 150 years of experience to manage the distribution of pr0n on your campus. :)

I dont see my name anywhere on that list Spidey! :)
Dont you need any PIX firewalls? Or Nortel VPN systems? Or maybe an 8600 passport? :D

 

LostHiWay

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,544
0
76
My school (University of Akron) offers wireless access to all students. They got a pretty good deal with Cisco to provide almost all the access points and other stuff for just about nothing. The only catch though is you can only use Cisco brand cards to get on the network because of the required LEAP authentication.