How much has the outside perception of the US changed in the last 8 years?

[James Bond]

So this question is directed at those of you who live outside the US.

Pre-GWB, how did you feel about the US, and how much has that changed in the last 8 years?

I know that the perception of the US has changed drastically for many, but I want to get a good idea of how much things have changed.

Also, do you expect your perception to change once a new leader is in place?

 

[piasabird]

If all we care is what some other country thinks, that would make the USA what?

Maybe Shallow and pointless?

I see nothing wrong with looking at constructive criticism.

 

[James Bond]

Originally posted by: piasabird
If all we care is what some other country thinks, that would make the USA what?

Maybe Shallow and pointless?

I see nothing wrong with looking at constructive criticism.

Conflict with other countries results in war - I don't consider it shallow to evaluate where we stand

 

[sandorski]

We all look forward to the end of the Bush Presidency. The US Government and its' foreign Policy certainly has taken the biggest hit, but some of that has rubbed off on the US and its' citizens as well. I think most of us Foreigners are more troubled that the Citizens of the US actually Re-elected that fool, when specifically focusing on Americans as people.

 

[shiner]

Not much really. The difference is that other countries are just being more vocal now about their hatred for us.

 

[Foxery]

The Statue of Liberty's placard reading, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" now says, "Bring proper identification and $750, or get your sorry ass back on the boat."

:-/

 

[CyberDuck]

I agree with Sandorski that the really really mindblowing thing was the re-election of George B. Everyone can make a mistake, but doing it twice.. When that happens one begins to wonder.

 

[Mavtek3100]

Originally posted by: CyberDuck
I agree with Sandorski that the really really mindblowing thing was the re-election of George B. Everyone can make a mistake, but doing it twice.. When that happens one begins to wonder.

Well to be fair it's not as if we were given a great alternative. Also there are many who say Bush didn't actually win and he certainly didn't get the popular vote.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Meh... They didn't like us much before... they like us less now. You don't get to be a super power by winning a popularity contest.

That said, they all seem to be clamoring to move here...

Originally posted by: CyberDuck
I agree with Sandorski that the really really mindblowing thing was the re-election of George B. Everyone can make a mistake, but doing it twice.. When that happens one begins to wonder.

You can't really blame the US. The other choices were Gore and Kerry.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Tizyler
Conflict with other countries results in war - I don't consider it shallow to evaluate where we stand

Uhh, this is a pretty illogical statement.

It sounds great in theory but the fact still remains that no two democracies have ever gone to war with one another, it just doesn't happen.

If you want to argue that how Canada, France, England, Spain, or any of a host of other countries feels about us is important then that is a valid discussion but I don't see any of those countries invading us in the near future nor vice versa.

China, Russia, and other countries are our rivals, were our rivals, and will be our rivals for years to come and that won't change no matter who's in the oval office.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I think most of us Foreigners are more troubled that the Citizens of the US actually Re-elected that fool

With a Republican President we were never allowed to nominate a person from our own political party. So in 2004 my choice was "the lesser of two evils". I will not make that mistake this year, my vote will stand against a political party that has betrayed my values.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
You don't get to be a super power by winning a popularity contest.

I would beg to disagree.

I think that there are two paths on which to travel to become one. The first is the most obvious and that is to conquer and direct all national resources to the goal of becoming one.

The other is a more subtle approach which is the path that we took. We got our enemy's enemy to like us enough to be willing to have their citizens die for our cause. We also attempted to be a beacon of light for others to emulate and they became allies and helped us further. Some of the best and brightest even became citizens here because we were so well liked and respected as a country of principles.

Sadly, that has changed dramatically over the last 6 years. After 9/11, we were being joined by almost every country on the planet in our grieving. That goodwill has not only been destroyed, but it was raped, plundered and pillaged prior to its destruction.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: CyberDuck
I agree with Sandorski that the really really mindblowing thing was the re-election of George B. Everyone can make a mistake, but doing it twice.. When that happens one begins to wonder.

Well to be fair it's not as if we were given a great alternative. Also there are many who say Bush didn't actually win and he certainly didn't get the popular vote.

:thumbsup:

I didn't vote for GWB either time.

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
You can't really blame the US. The other choices were Gore and Kerry.

Actually you can blame those who voted for him - especially the 2nd time. I wasn't a huge fan of Kerry but I voted for him. Why? Because Bush was doing a *terrible* job in his 1st term and didn't deserve to be reelected.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Tizyler

Also, do you expect your perception to change once a new leader is in place?

I think that it would depend on the candidate.

I think that a President Obama would not improve perception as much as Clinton not on anything he's done but on who he is, especially in the European and Muslim world. Minorities are just plain not liked in Europe, and a black man as president scares them to their very core. Many Muslims would tend to think of Obama as an apostate (because of his father) that would need to be punished.

McCain would probably be similar to Bush.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tizyler

Also, do you expect your perception to change once a new leader is in place?

Minorities are just plain not liked in Europe, and a black man as president scares them to their very core.

This doesn't seem to be in line with what has been reported on.

http://www.economist.com/world....cfm?story_id=10497345
A French newspaper, Libération, said that the arrival in the White House of ?a black man, married to a black woman, [with] a black family? would be an act of ?atonement? that would restore the image of an America ?shunned in every corner of the planet?. A German tabloid, Bild, offered praise for Mr Obama's ?sexy? charms, under the headline: ?This Black American Will Become the New Kennedy!? In Spain El País trumped all others, telling readers: ?The question is whether the United States is ready for a president who is black, a woman, an evangelical minister, a Mormon or a Catholic.?

In a random sampling in the streets of Nuremberg, in Bavaria, ordinary Germans seemed impressed by the two things they knew about Mr Obama: he is not George Bush, and he is the son of an African. Dirk Hellwig, a graphic designer, said he would feel more ?positive? about America if Mr Obama won the presidency. ?I don't know what he wants to do,? Mr Hellwig admitted. ?But I think Germans will think Obama is a sign that something is changing.? A win by Mrs Clinton would also send a signal of American change, Mr Hellwig said. ?But the signal would be bigger from Obama, because he is black.?
*****************************

But a dose of practicality is maintained:

A former Irish prime minister, John Bruton, who now heads the European Commission's delegation in America, warns Europeans against imagining that any president will bow to calls to surrender American sovereignty, or make concessions on trade, in the global interest. ?It's clear that any US president will pursue the interests of the electorate that has elected him or her,? he says.

Nor is European enthusiasm for either candidate likely to survive the election of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama, or whoever else becomes president. The person who gets voters' nod will rule as an American, promoting American interests around the world?and no doubt disappointing many watchers from abroad. For Europeans to imagine anything else would be naive indeed."

**************************

That's not to say there's zero racism in Europe, but you painting Europe as "scared to their core" of a black president seems to be a gross misrepresentation.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tizyler

Also, do you expect your perception to change once a new leader is in place?

Minorities are just plain not liked in Europe, and a black man as president scares them to their very core.

This doesn't seem to be in line with what has been reported on.

http://www.economist.com/world....cfm?story_id=10497345
A French newspaper, Libération, said that the arrival in the White House of ?a black man, married to a black woman, [with] a black family? would be an act of ?atonement? that would restore the image of an America ?shunned in every corner of the planet?. A German tabloid, Bild, offered praise for Mr Obama's ?sexy? charms, under the headline: ?This Black American Will Become the New Kennedy!? In Spain El País trumped all others, telling readers: ?The question is whether the United States is ready for a president who is black, a woman, an evangelical minister, a Mormon or a Catholic.?

In a random sampling in the streets of Nuremberg, in Bavaria, ordinary Germans seemed impressed by the two things they knew about Mr Obama: he is not George Bush, and he is the son of an African. Dirk Hellwig, a graphic designer, said he would feel more ?positive? about America if Mr Obama won the presidency. ?I don't know what he wants to do,? Mr Hellwig admitted. ?But I think Germans will think Obama is a sign that something is changing.? A win by Mrs Clinton would also send a signal of American change, Mr Hellwig said. ?But the signal would be bigger from Obama, because he is black.?
*****************************

But a dose of practicality is maintained:

A former Irish prime minister, John Bruton, who now heads the European Commission's delegation in America, warns Europeans against imagining that any president will bow to calls to surrender American sovereignty, or make concessions on trade, in the global interest. ?It's clear that any US president will pursue the interests of the electorate that has elected him or her,? he says.

Nor is European enthusiasm for either candidate likely to survive the election of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama, or whoever else becomes president. The person who gets voters' nod will rule as an American, promoting American interests around the world?and no doubt disappointing many watchers from abroad. For Europeans to imagine anything else would be naive indeed."

**************************

That's not to say there's zero racism in Europe, but you painting Europe as "scared to their core" of a black president seems to be a gross misrepresentation.

I'm not claiming that every single European hates minorities. There are some that don't mind.

I would also claim that many would support Obama because they think that a minority will kneel down to the demands of Europe.