I'm currently doing a courier job which needs to stop and run my car 50-60 times per day. Idling or turning off engine while I'm picking up or dropping goods becomes a concern now. I figure if I idle engine all the time, it probably adds up 60-90 minutes of extra idling for one day and costs quite some gas. If I turn it off and restart, that seems a lot of wear for engine. Well, those aren't cold-start, still a lot of wear I guess. What would you do in a similar situation?
How much gas does idling cost?
- Thread starter rc5
- Start date
<< I'm currently doing a courier job which needs to stop and run my car 50-60 times per day. Idling or turning off engine while I'm picking up or dropping goods becomes a concern now. I figure if I idle engine all the time, it probably adds up 60-90 minutes of extra idling for one day and costs quite some gas. If I turn it off and restart, that seems a lot of wear for engine. Well, those aren't cold-start, still a lot of wear I guess. What would you do in a similar situation? >>
In general, shutting it saves to shut off the engine if idling exceeds one minute. It takes more gas too restart the engine if its less than one minute or so or so I hear. I'd set the cut off at five min. 60 startings per day sure is going to kill your starter very early. Some city buses stops its engine at every stop, but those have special heavy duty motors.
<< I'd install and oil cooler and tranny cooler and let it idle. >>
Except he's concerned about FUEL USAGE and those coolers does nothing to help it.
<< In general, shutting it saves to shut off the engine if idling exceeds one minute. It takes more gas too restart the engine if its less than one minute or so or so I hear. I'd set the cut off at five min. 60 startings per day sure is going to kill your starter very early. Some city buses stops its engine at every stop, but those have special heavy duty motors. >>
That was the 'rule of thumb' before fuel injection, starting took as much fuel as letting it idle, but not with fuel injection.
The city busses turning off the motors has nothing to do with them being heavy duty and everything to do with saving fuel and wear and tear.
<< I'd install and oil cooler and tranny cooler and let it idle. >>
That would be the worst thing you could do. A cool engine is inefficient and causes more wear and tear.
I'd shut it down at every opportunity.
<<
The city busses turning off the motors has nothing to do with them being heavy duty and everything to do with saving fuel and wear and tear. >>
I meant heavy duty STARTER MOTOR.
Jerboy
AH! OK, but the starters are standard on the motors, although I'll make the point that the whole motor is a commercial design and the whole thing is heavy duty. If any changes were made they would be in the battery/chargeing circuit .
AH! OK, but the starters are standard on the motors, although I'll make the point that the whole motor is a commercial design and the whole thing is heavy duty. If any changes were made they would be in the battery/chargeing circuit .
Stop the engine is good, but considering you have to start the engine 50-60 times then I would say let it idle. It is much easier for your starter and battery.
<<
<< I'd install and oil cooler and tranny cooler and let it idle. >>
That would be the worst thing you could do. A cool engine is inefficient and causes more wear and tear.
I'd shut it down at every opportunity. >>
Heat KILLS transmissions and engines. If you don't understand the need for an engine and tranny cooler, than it isn't worth explaining. Ford seems to understand the need, as Police Interceptor Crown Vics have engine and tranny oil coolers. Dodge seems to understand as the Viper ACR has an oil cooler. The list goes on.
You're telling him to shut the engine down, wouldn't that cool the engine? Or does it somehow magically stay warm even though it's turned off. By your reasoning, he would want to leave it on all the time so that the engine doesn't ever cool down. But then you tell him to turn the car off all the time. Make up your mind, or maybe go back to reading Motor Trend for your tech info.
<< Except he's concerned about FUEL USAGE and those coolers does nothing to help it. >>
Except his post also mentioned wear and tear on the engine. And he also asks what we would do in a similar situation. Your reply doesn't help answer his concern about fuel usage either.
1 minute of idling takes up the same amount of gas as starting it. So if you're in and out in about a minute, it's a wash. Which brings up the rest of the arguments. But keep in mind that a car burns more fuel when it is cold.
Best bet is to ask the company to get you a vehicle. They can write off every aspect of owning and operating a vehicle, but you can't. Or at least make sure you get getting paid well enough for the wear and tear on your car (and make sure you write off as much as you can come tax time).
<< Heat KILLS transmissions and engines. If you don't understand the need for an engine and tranny cooler, than it isn't worth explaining. Ford seems to understand the need, as Police Interceptor Crown Vics have engine and tranny oil coolers. Dodge seems to understand as the Viper ACR has an oil cooler. The list goes on. >>
You must be stupid if you think ANY motor will build up heat at idle...STUPID! Running a tranny or motor outside of it's design limitations results in wear...no exception.
<< 1 minute of idling takes up the same amount of gas as starting it. So if you're in and out in about a minute, it's a wash. Which brings up the rest of the arguments. But keep in mind that a car burns more fuel when it is cold. >>
You made my point...
<< Best bet is to ask the company to get you a vehicle. They can write off every aspect of owning and operating a vehicle, but you can't. Or at least make sure you get getting paid well enough for the wear and tear on your car (and make sure you write off as much as you can come tax time). >>
You arew dumber than a brick if you think that can be written off!...
You could make a good argument either way..........consider this: Police cars hardly ever shut off. Just go to a football game, or state fair....somewhere they are directing traffic. There will be cars sitting there idling all day long, with no problems.
I'd say that it isn't going to hurt the car to idle......but it will use more gas than shutting it off.
<<But keep in mind that a car burns more fuel when it is cold.>>
It isn't going to get cold if you shut if off and go inside somewhere for a few minutes, or even 30 minutes.
There isn't going to be any excess heat from idling, if the car's cooling system is operating properly. Yes, police and taxi cars have extra cooling, but those cars see much more extreme use than than rc5's car is going to.
The only argument that can be made is wear and tear of restarting multiple times. What does it hurt? Well, it does work the starter motor much more than the average daily driver. It does put extra strain on the battery.
Does increased wear to those components offset the extra gas burned by leaving it running? Probably doesn't make much difference either way, so I guess your answer is, do whatever you prefer. If you want to save money right now, shut it off.
If you want to prevent possible parts failure in the future, leave it running.
More importantly, if you want to make your car easy to steal, leave it running.
I'd say that it isn't going to hurt the car to idle......but it will use more gas than shutting it off.
<<But keep in mind that a car burns more fuel when it is cold.>>
It isn't going to get cold if you shut if off and go inside somewhere for a few minutes, or even 30 minutes.
There isn't going to be any excess heat from idling, if the car's cooling system is operating properly. Yes, police and taxi cars have extra cooling, but those cars see much more extreme use than than rc5's car is going to.
The only argument that can be made is wear and tear of restarting multiple times. What does it hurt? Well, it does work the starter motor much more than the average daily driver. It does put extra strain on the battery.
Does increased wear to those components offset the extra gas burned by leaving it running? Probably doesn't make much difference either way, so I guess your answer is, do whatever you prefer. If you want to save money right now, shut it off.
If you want to prevent possible parts failure in the future, leave it running.
More importantly, if you want to make your car easy to steal, leave it running.
<< Police cars hardly ever shut off. Just go to a football game, or state fair....somewhere they are directing traffic. There will be cars sitting there idling all day long, with no problems. >>
They leave it at idle for one reason, the electronics would drain 2 batteries in short order! Also, they are not concerned with fuel usage...that is changeing however. The engine and electronics are designed to idle for long intervals....no car you can buy is.
<< Does increased wear to those components offset the extra gas burned by leaving it running? Probably doesn't make much difference either way, so I guess your answer is, do whatever you prefer. If you want to save money right now, shut it off. >>
That is the question. Save money by not using fuel, that is, shutting it off.
Modern diesel engines are programmed to shut off after 2 minutes at idle.
my friends and I sit in our cars and play music, sometimes running the engine (to keep the AC running) and I haven't noticed a decrease in gas mileage...idling uses very little gas (of course I'm not doing this professionally, so YMMV). If its real hot/real cold outside, you might want to leave it running for your own comfort. I wouldn't worry too much about gas, its real cheap right now, I doubt your going more than 2-3 gallons of gas a day idling for 60 minutes; and the possible parts that could get hurt, check to see if they are under warrantty.
<< ,.. I doubt your going more than 2-3 gallons of gas a day idling for 60 minutes... >>
Any business person that would willingly spend $5 a day does not deserve to be in business.
Tom, agree with most of your points, and he should definitely shut his car off.
However,
<<They leave it at idle for one reason, the electronics would drain 2 batteries in short order! Also, they are not concerned with fuel usage...that is changeing however. The engine and electronics are designed to idle for long intervals....no car you can buy is. >>
I can take any car off our lot and let idle all month.....as long as there's gas in it.....and it won't hurt a thing. Crown Vic police interceptor engines are absolutely no different than standard passenger cars....except for extra cooling and better handling suspensions.
You're right about the drain on the batteries, but any car in proper operating condition can run indefinitely and not hurt anything.
However,
<<They leave it at idle for one reason, the electronics would drain 2 batteries in short order! Also, they are not concerned with fuel usage...that is changeing however. The engine and electronics are designed to idle for long intervals....no car you can buy is. >>
I can take any car off our lot and let idle all month.....as long as there's gas in it.....and it won't hurt a thing. Crown Vic police interceptor engines are absolutely no different than standard passenger cars....except for extra cooling and better handling suspensions.
You're right about the drain on the batteries, but any car in proper operating condition can run indefinitely and not hurt anything.
<<my friends and I sit in our cars and play music, sometimes running the engine (to keep the AC running) and I haven't noticed a decrease in gas mileage...idling uses very little gas (of course I'm not doing this professionally, so YMMV)>>
Depends on the car whether you can tell how much gas you're burning.
Example: I went racing earlier this year, and my generator was inop, so I used a power inverter hooked to my tow car to recharge the batteries in the race truck between rounds. Left the tow truck (Tahoe) running basically all afternoon.
It used nearly 1/4 of a tank that afternoon, just sitting there idling....and that's a 30 gallon tank.
Depends on the car whether you can tell how much gas you're burning.
Example: I went racing earlier this year, and my generator was inop, so I used a power inverter hooked to my tow car to recharge the batteries in the race truck between rounds. Left the tow truck (Tahoe) running basically all afternoon.
It used nearly 1/4 of a tank that afternoon, just sitting there idling....and that's a 30 gallon tank.
Ever sat in traffic and heard the fan pop on? The car wasn't building up heat then.
<<
<< Best bet is to ask the company to get you a vehicle. They can write off every aspect of owning and operating a vehicle, but you can't. Or at least make sure you get getting paid well enough for the wear and tear on your car (and make sure you write off as much as you can come tax time). >>
You arew dumber than a brick if you think that can be written off!... >>
Quicken must be dumb too. And the accountant that prepares my taxes must be dumb. ~25,000 miles were deducted in 98 when I used my car as part of my job.
Get a clue.
<<
<< Best bet is to ask the company to get you a vehicle. They can write off every aspect of owning and operating a vehicle, but you can't. Or at least make sure you get getting paid well enough for the wear and tear on your car (and make sure you write off as much as you can come tax time). >>
You arew dumber than a brick if you think that can be written off!... >>
Quicken must be dumb too. And the accountant that prepares my taxes must be dumb. ~25,000 miles were deducted in 98 when I used my car as part of my job.
Get a clue.
<< You're right about the drain on the batteries, but any car in proper operating condition can run indefinitely and not hurt anything. >>
That is the equivalent of driving down the road at 55mph. No, it doesn't 'hurt a thing.'
<< Crown Vic police interceptor engines are absolutely no different than standard passenger cars....except for extra cooling and better handling suspensions. >>
Bull! Ever price a 100amp alternator? That is just one of the differences...
<< Quicken must be dumb too. And the accountant that prepares my taxes must be dumb. ~25,000 miles were deducted in 98 when I used my car as part of my job. >>
It is based as much on the time of ownership as much as the mileage...complicated and that is why you have an accountant. You CANNOT write off wear and tear! Only mileage and time of ownership and I don't give a damn how good you think your accountant is. Idle is needless and is not deductible!
<< Get a clue. >>
Facts supercede 'clues' every time.
<<Bull! Ever price a 100amp alternator? That is just one of the differences...>>
The alternator is NOT part of the engine, and is not a factor in the current discussion. I say again, Crown Vic police interceptor engines are NO different than standard Crown engines. The accessories are a bit different, but the engines, no.
An alternator makes absolutely no difference in whethere it's ok to let an engine idle for long periods, which was the original topic.
I was responding to your statement <<The engine and electronics are designed to idle for long intervals....no car you can buy is. >>
My point was, ANY car can idle all year long with no problems. There is nothing in the ENGINE or ELECTRONICS of a cop car (which I used in my example) the enable them to idle any better or safer than a standard car of the same type. All the heavy duty components of a cop car are designed to help the engine live in other adverse conditions, such as: extra electronic equipment(higher amp alternator), high-speed driving(better cooling system, oil cooler, trans cooler, HD suspension, tires, etc).
The alternator is NOT part of the engine, and is not a factor in the current discussion. I say again, Crown Vic police interceptor engines are NO different than standard Crown engines. The accessories are a bit different, but the engines, no.
An alternator makes absolutely no difference in whethere it's ok to let an engine idle for long periods, which was the original topic.
I was responding to your statement <<The engine and electronics are designed to idle for long intervals....no car you can buy is. >>
My point was, ANY car can idle all year long with no problems. There is nothing in the ENGINE or ELECTRONICS of a cop car (which I used in my example) the enable them to idle any better or safer than a standard car of the same type. All the heavy duty components of a cop car are designed to help the engine live in other adverse conditions, such as: extra electronic equipment(higher amp alternator), high-speed driving(better cooling system, oil cooler, trans cooler, HD suspension, tires, etc).
<< An alternator makes absolutely no difference in whethere it's ok to let an engine idle for long periods, which was the original topic. >>
More bull! It takes horsepower to turn those accessories. Cop cars have enhanced idle circuits so they can high-idle if sitting for extended periods. They idle for a purpose and they would not idle if the electrical accessories could bu used using battery power only. Battries run down so they idle. Any accessory creates a need for horsepower which in turn accelerates engine wear. I cannot see how you could argue this.
<< My point was, ANY car can idle all year long with no problems. >>
"no problems?" There indeed may not be any readily seen, but you cannot deny that wear takes place and fuel use will increase.
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