How much do you know about keyboards?

[Locut0s]

Bet you don't know this much:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html

Got to save this for a later read some time. Impressive amount of info.

 

[F1N3ST]

A few threads is fine, what is this like #12?

 

[Locut0s]

A few threads is fine, what is this like #12?

Me bored and lonely Trust me I'll slow down once I get a job. Got an 2nd interview tomorrow for a job so that might pan out. It's a but of a crappy job but better than nothing.

 

[0roo0roo]

good stuff.

 

[ecom]

I bought an ABS M1...feels nice but way too loud.

 

[Locut0s]

I bought an ABS M1...feels nice but way too loud.

I've thought of getting a Das Keyboard. Not the blank one, the other one. It's also a mechanical keyboard but I think it's slickly less loud than the old IBM ones. Love that sound. It's pricey though.

 

[pmv]

I want a keyboard that is both blank, like the original Das, but also backlit. Why? Because backlit keyboards look cool, but they look rubbish when the keytops start to smear and rub off, as they invariably do. I don't need to see the letters as I can touch-type, but I like the way backlit keyboards _look_.
Obviously this would have to be the type of backlighting where the whole key is lit, not just the lettering.

Also this way I could annoy non-typists even in the dark.

PS I think I'd already seen the information in the first post on that link, but seems now there's even more! Lord that's a lot of keyboard-related info.

 

[konakona]

I think I saw this earlier, but maybe it was updated since then - more choices seems to be there for cherry browns. By far the most comprehensive one I have seen, though I am not sure if I would entirely agree if blacks are better than browns for gaming. Could be a personal choice. I do notice ABS M1 is a bit too stiff for that role. TBH I haven't really used a black axis keyboard for an extended period, maybe that should go on my list of "keyboards to try next"

 

[nerp]

I'm a Unicomp man for life.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Thanks for sharing the link. I want a backlit mechanical kb and I especially like that Ione Xarmor U9BL but I can't find a vendor with it.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I contacted Ione USA about getting the xarmor and am waiting to hear their reply.

 

[ASTOCADDIDS]

I just bought a new hard drive finally and need to know how to erase my old drive. Any suggestions?

 

[konakona]

So I was there at the local fry's trying out the steelseries 7G...
It's not really just about the tactileness, felt like it actually required more force to hit keys even while bottoming out and all. To me cherry browns are the best so far

 

[nipplefish]

Wow, that's pretty interesting stuff. One thing that caught my eye:

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

and

Note that only PS/2 keyboards can exhibit full n-key rollover. USB spec limits keyboards to 6 regular keys plus 4 modifiers (but remember, it's not guaranteed, it's just a maximum).

I was always under the impression that it was the PS/2 interface holding me back and so I upgraded to a USB keyboard (a G11).

My question would be, what if you use a USB->PS/2 adapter? Would that then allow a USB keyboard to utilize full n-key rollover?

 

[konakona]

yes, that should do it. My filco (apparently advertised as n-key rollover capable and proven in use) comes with a usb connector at the end of the cord + PS/2 to USB dongle.

but be aware that n-key rollover costs money to implement and none of the logitechs I know of have that feature.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Using the usb > ps2 adapter to 'get' nkro is very keyboard dependent.. I.e. taking an old logitech rubber dome usb keyboard using the ps2 adapter won't automatically give you nkro..

It requires diodes on every switch, which is $$..



As far as switches, I've used cherry blacks, browns, blues and fukkas (one of the best alps clones)

Blacks are IMO horrible. I sold my filco w/ blacks..

Blues are great for typing and so-so for gaming. You can't "float" with them (hold the key partially down and push it when you need it, which a lot of FPS rubber dome gamers do). They're also tough to double/triple tap. This was a huge problem for me initially but I eventually 'learned' how to use blues in FPS.

Browns are great for gaming and so-so for typing. They're light, not very tactile, and just plain out feel good when gaming. I don't like them for typing..

Fukkas are good for typing and good for gaming.




My solution? I now have a Filco 104 key w/ blues at work, and tenkeyless with browns and tenkeyless with fukkas at home.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Also to clarify a bit on the blue gaming issues..

With a rubber dome you only have to release it a tiny bit before repressing to register a keystroke

With cherry blues there is a 'hump' on the release, so you have to almost completely remove your finger before repressing to register a keystroke

On my brown board this isn't nearly as noticeable since there isn't so much of a 'hump' on the release, same with the fukkas..

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So I was there at the local fry's trying out the steelseries 7G...
It's not really just about the tactileness, felt like it actually required more force to hit keys even while bottoming out and all. To me cherry browns are the best so far

It seems like I've read of reliability issues with the steelseries boards. Also at $150 you're much better off going with a Filco from elitekeyboards

 

[konakona]

wow, that's some great insight there!

what about cherry browns vs fukkas for gaming, would that be a tie more or less?

did you ever get to try the capacitive switches on Topres?

 

[thescreensavers]

damn, I never had a problem with the plastic dome keyboards. He recommends mechanical keys I did not read it all(skimmed it) but what is the advantage?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

wow, that's some great insight there!

what about cherry browns vs fukkas for gaming, would that be a tie more or less?

did you ever get to try the capacitive switches on Topres?

I prefer the browns for gaming.

The fukkas are a bit 'heavy', requiring ~55g to register a keystroke. However, they feel fairly linear in force, so when you let go they sorta 'push' up. This makes it a lot easier to double/triple tap than blues which don't 'push' up when released, there's sort of a dead zone before it 'pops' up and there's a hump on the release... I like fukkas for typing but not quite as much as the blues - primarily because I prefer a really light switch (all personal preference)

The browns are almost linear and very light 40-45g (I think, don't quote me on that). They have a tiny bump but I've found it's the board that I really don't have to pay attention to what I'm pressing and can just play. I actually have my fukka and brown boards both hooked up and swap them out when I play games.

I haven't tried a topre or hhkb simply because I feel the cost is outrageous for what is basically a really fancy rubber dome. A LOT of people swear by them, and if I was only to keep one keyboard I might try it out - but I really think I'd miss the tactile clicks of the blues and fukkas. I also like the technical aspect of cherry/fukkas having an individual switch underneath every key.



All of that being said, IMO the browns are really boring to type on whereas the blues and fukkas are 'fun' to type on. Also keep in mind there are a lot of people that hate the blues, browns, fukkas, buckling spring, etc... Everyone has a different opinion on it and IMO it's really tough to accurately describe how these switches feel. Geekhack has a poll where blue is the favorite switch, but BS and brown really isn't all that far behind.



FWIW I would probably consider selling my fukka to buy another blue at home (since I don't mind having one keyboard for typing and another for gaming) - but if I had to pick only one board I'd go with the fukka (note that you can't buy them from elitekeyboards, it was a limited edition run).

Also the fukka is a bit quieter than blues, so if you have a picky wife or roommates you might want to go with brown/fukka/topre.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

damn, I never had a problem with the plastic dome keyboards. He recommends mechanical keys I did not read it all(skimmed it) but what is the advantage?

It just feels 100000x better to type on. It makes me want to type out long posts just because it's fun.. I'm sure some people don't "get it" but I hate typing on rubber domes now that I'm used to mechanicals. I'll never go back..

 

[nerp]

Mechanicals are just higher quality. I love writing on my Model M and Unicomp keyboards. It's all about having a high quality tool for the job. I don't skimp on parts and that includes the device I use with my PC more than anything -- the keyboard.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Mechanicals are just higher quality. I love writing on my Model M and Unicomp keyboards. It's all about having a high quality tool for the job. I don't skimp on parts and that includes the device I use with my PC more than anything -- the keyboard.

To me it's very similar to speakers and monitors - they'll last for 10 years+++... You'd have spent $10k on upgrades over that time period but won't spent $130 on a keyboard? Bleh.. (not you nerp, just in general)



I'd used buckling springs in the past, but they're too stiff and loud for regular typing/gaming (imo). I wish I'd known about cherry switches when I was in school and typing 10x more than I do now.

 

[konakona]

damn, I never had a problem with the plastic dome keyboards. He recommends mechanical keys I did not read it all(skimmed it) but what is the advantage?

I think of it more as vintage recievers like Fisher C400s. While electronics certainly has advanced since their heyday, the focus shifted to mass production/consumption; some claim this lead to deterioration in quality in less sought areas - headphone out for instance. Same goes for discmans, some of the audiophiles swear by the earlier, less portable models to have superior sound quality.

The point is, rubber domes usually cater the cheaper segment and all-around quality is generally subpar.

Personally I play an equal share of FPS and 2d fighters. For 2d fighters, the keyboard is the sole means of input, needing complex keystrokes with sometimes unforgiving timing requirements for combos and such. n-key rollover and faster stroke definitely helps here, I find those games quite unplayable on the laptops due to poorer keyboards. For a less keyboard-centric WASD affair I feel the difference is less pronounced.