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How Microsoft could improve Windows by being more like Apple

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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I've learned that Apple (Mac) PCs, can re-install the OS, using just a blank drive and the firmware.

Some time ago, I posited, that if modern UEFI firmware can download an updated BIOS from a "home server" somewhere, and flash it, then they should be able to do a "stream download" and install of the OS as well. What that would look like, I'm not sure. Either a PXE-style boot, off of a (secured) internet / web resource, or just using the UEFI as a download helper tool, essentially Microsoft's Media Creation Tool in firmware, and the user supplies a plugged-in flash drive to stash the install files, and then it reboots off of the USB drive.
Something like that, would help noobs boot-strap a Windows (or Linux!) system, without having to have another PC. (But it sure helps, to have YouTube, etc. avail. to new builders.)

Maybe PC UEFI formware should be like a "smart TV" or an Android phone, imagine a full Android implementation in the UEFI, that could also boot-strap Windows on a real SSD. (Maybe UEFI should have a chunk of eMMC onboard, besides just the BIOS in a flash eeprom.)

Edit: That article says that next year, MS is going to sell a "Microsoft Platform", Android OS product / phone. Interesting. Looks like I'm not far off.
 
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JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
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MacOS Devices have their advantages. However it comes with a "price", the hardware is more expensive, and it is less flexible than Windows.

Windows PCs are in decline sales and use in the last decade and the prediction is that they will end up as small market for professional use (because they are more flexible and less expensive).

If you look at Medical facilities their actual work is done with units that use Windows while the communication is done by iPads.

So.... making Windows more like MacOS will Help for even further decline of Windows.

MS does seems to follow the Apple idea, but it is done with Products like this.


:cool:
 
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MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
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Can we get an article about why MacOS should be more like WIndows 10?

But I do agree its time for MS to change its business model. Everything should be a gateway to Azure and Office365 instead of what we have now, a dying cash cow.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Excuse me but Windows should be more like Linux and everybody can safely ignore Apple. Apple has turned a great UNIX based OS formally known as MacOS X into a damn Walled Garden now known as MacOS and iOS.:rolleyes:
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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I'm wondering if the article's author has used Windows 10 at all. It reads like the last time they used Windows was on Win7, then they read about the rest and thought they knew enough to write an article about it.

I can think of plenty of criticisms of Windows 10, but to be able to strike two of the author's criticisms right off the bat is just really sloppy journalism.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
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Excuse me but Windows should be more like Linux and everybody can safely ignore Apple. Apple has turned a great UNIX based OS formally known as MacOS X into a damn Walled Garden now known as MacOS and iOS.:rolleyes:
No Desktop OS should ever be whatever hot distro that happens to be promoted as "Linux". They are all mines waiting to be triggered with that hardware incompatibility and google fu to fix your problem.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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No Desktop OS should ever be whatever hot distro that happens to be promoted as "Linux". They are all mines waiting to be triggered with that hardware incompatibility and google fu to fix your problem.
Redacted You have never used Linux before have you?

Profanity is not allowed in any of the tech
sub-forums.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
46,610
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Redacted You have never used Linux before have you?
LOLNO. I'm pretty-sure that he has.

I have too. He's pretty-much spot-on.

Linux is great.... if you don't mind waiting 8-12 months, for your new(-ish) hardware to actually be semi-properly-supported.

Bay Trail Atom-based Brix unit: Random freezes, idle, working, you name it, it just stops processing properly. For nearly two years.

Friend buys an AMD Ryzen APU, same sort of stuff, totally different hardware, "updated" kernel/OS versions, etc. Same damn (redacted). Unusable, for someone that actually wants a little bit of uptime, and not just "Gee-Whiz, I can boot this Linux USB pen drive and click on Firefox. Until I get bored 10 minutes later, and shut it down / reboot into Windows."

I bought a laptop a few years back. It SHIPPED WITH LINUX PRE-INSTALLED. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.. Not more than a few Linux version upgrades later, it was UNUSABLE - GRAPHICS CHIPSET NO LONGER SUPPORTED (Ivy Bridge U-series Intel CPU). So much for hardware that was even PREVIOUSLY SUPPORTED.

Finally had to put Windows on that laptop, to keep it running. (Which, of course, it handled easily.)

Edit: BTW, I don't hate Linux, I'm actually a fan. But... I have expectations, coming from Windows. That it will be a reliable, usable, and supported OS. Something that Desktop Linux, well, isn't, quite yet, for all PCs. One of the reasons why it has what, 0.7% of desktop OS market-share? And it's FREE to boot! Funny how people prefer paid software over free software. At least it works.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,413
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LOLNO. I'm pretty-sure that he has.

I have too. He's pretty-much spot-on.

Linux is great.... if you don't mind waiting 8-12 months, for your new(-ish) hardware to actually be semi-properly-supported.

Bay Trail Atom-based Brix unit: Random freezes, idle, working, you name it, it just stops processing properly. For nearly two years.

Friend buys an AMD Ryzen APU, same sort of stuff, totally different hardware, "updated" kernel/OS versions, etc. Same damn shit. Unusable, for someone that actually wants a little bit of uptime, and not just "Gee-Whiz, I can boot this Linux USB pen drive and click on Firefox. Until I get bored 10 minutes later, and shut it down / reboot into Windows."

I bought a laptop a few years back. It SHIPPED WITH LINUX PRE-INSTALLED. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.. Not more than a few Linux version upgrades later, it was UNUSABLE - GRAPHICS CHIPSET NO LONGER SUPPORTED (Ivy Bridge U-series Intel CPU). So much for hardware that was even PREVIOUSLY SUPPORTED.

Finally had to put Windows on that laptop, to keep it running. (Which, of course, it handled easily.)

Edit: BTW, I don't hate Linux, I'm actually a fan. But... I have expectations, coming from Windows. That it will be a reliable, usable, and supported OS. Something that Desktop Linux, well, isn't, quite yet, for all PCs. One of the reasons why it has what, 0.7% of desktop OS market-share? And it's FREE to boot! Funny how people prefer paid software over free software. At least it works.
So you are you judging all Linux Distros by one of them that have been going downhill for some time? What company preinstalled Ubuntu for you?
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
46,610
4,480
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So you are you judging all Linux Distros by one of them that have been going downhill for some time? What company preinstalled Ubuntu for you?
No, actually, I didn't specify which Distro. The problem with the Bay Trail Atom freezing, and the AMD Ryzen APU freezing up, were both Linux Mint. The laptop (years earlier) with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, was pre-installed and sold by Acer. (Not a third-party seller.)

That was probably their beginning and end of selling "Linux on the Desktop" PCs.

Edit: Fun fact - the world needs more than just pure idealism to operate, apparently. Who in the family wants the responsibility to "Clean the soap dish".

Edit: Don't get me wrong, Linux Mint (one of several), is pretty darn usable, if you luck out and your hardware, including your wifi card, is fully-supported.

I have an Acer Cloudbook running Mint. Until I upgraded to 18.3, it froze regularly after a few days of uptime, and got hot. But I also, every time I booted, I had to edit the kernel boot params, and add "NOAPIC" to it, for some reason, it couldn't detect that aspect of the hardware on it's own.

Once I finally upgraded to, I'm not sure at this point, Mint 19.1 I think, that "NOAPIC" issue went away, and now I can boot and restart, without major issues requiring manual intervention.

But this took, like ... more than a year of waiting on that hardware, struggling along, TRYING HARD to "make Linux work with it".

Edit: Now I'm living in fear of upgrading it any further, as, like my Acer 1007U laptop before it, an updated distro or kernel might make it completely unusable, as the kernel authors deprecate hardware support for iGPUs more than 3 or maybe it was 5 years old, when it took maybe 2-3 years before Linux was even usable on that device in the first place!
 
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Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
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Redacted You have never used Linux before have you?
Debian, mint, ANDROID.
AMD graphics no bueno. Nvidia graphics driver is better, but god forbid if you stumble into a purist distro like Debian, in which you have to gnash your teeth to make stuff work.

Now with AMD leaping into the forefront, Linux can't work with the APUs with any consistency...because free in freedom don't mix with proprietary.

Linux is fine for the most basic of tasks or you're an educated nerd who can tweak and mod with ease and get pleasure from it. For those inbetween, Windows is simply better. I have not used 10 in any capacity yet, but WIndows 8.1 is still fine. I have a working power management, the interface has plenty of customization, and even the file properties is superior to Linux. If I have a folder of music, Windows Explorer can be customized to preview the file in the pane without needing to open the media player.

I remember the GNOME 3 fallout. Those who adored Gnome 2, the wannabe XP interface, revolted against GNOME 3 and Cinnamon or whatever it was was born.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
13,108
2,674
136
I bought a laptop a few years back. It SHIPPED WITH LINUX PRE-INSTALLED. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.. Not more than a few Linux version upgrades later, it was UNUSABLE - GRAPHICS CHIPSET NO LONGER SUPPORTED (Ivy Bridge U-series Intel CPU). So much for hardware that was even PREVIOUSLY SUPPORTED.
And you've never seen that before on Windows?

I have. One example off the top of my head is my own laptop: Dell Latitude E4300. It ran Vista originally. When its disk died and its owner didn't want it any more, they gave it to me. Win7 runs fine on it, but on Win8x it suffered graphics corruptions and the Bluetooth didn't work. The graphics chip is a mobile Intel 4 series, which I've seen run in other laptops on newer versions of Windows just fine, but you and I also know that big-name OEMs sometimes use modified versions of such hardware, which is probably what happened to you with this laptop. My current laptop of choice for average users is a Lenovo V130, and the Intel HD Graphics in that won't handle a standard Intel driver, it has to be Lenovo's/Windows's one.

Intel provides little support for their graphics hardware beyond about 3 years as well.

Another customer's computer off the top of my head started with Win8, runs it just fine, the customer took it up to Win10 with the free upgrade offer, then along came (IIRC) Win10 1803 and the OS refused to boot, even with a clean install of Win10 upgraded to 1803 or a clean install of the problematic Windows build.

It happens dude, don't pretend it doesn't.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
13,108
2,674
136
Debian, mint, ANDROID.
AMD graphics no bueno. Nvidia graphics driver is better, but god forbid if you stumble into a purist distro like Debian, in which you have to gnash your teeth to make stuff work.
Huh. I migrated to Lubuntu 18.04 LTS from Win7 in 2018, and didn't have to do a thing to get my R9 380X working with hardware acceleration.
 

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