How many years to graduate med school? Thinking about becoming a doc (maybe)

[aolsuxs]

Just my input, I am a first year undergraduate, and I started internships/volunteering at hospitals when I was in high school and I absolultly love it. I honestly see a career in healthcare is for me. I would reccomend you take a few internships if you haven't already. You might "really want to be a doctor" just based on what the media has shown you however, you might want some real life experience and see if it suits you.


Heart Surgeon,

Phi Betta Kappa and the other one you mention? Is it same as Valevictorian? Any benefits to those?

 

[kami333]

You get a cool key

 

[heartsurgeon]

I'm optimistic and I think we've seen the worst

god bless you...i hope your right, but i really doubt it.

is it common for general surg residency to be 8 years

no, i did three years in a cardiovascular research laboratory (published a bunch of research papers in basically all the top journals i my field).

the best man at my wedding (we trained together in Genral Surgery) just quit practicing medicine (he was a Vascular Surgeon in Pennsylvania (can you say trial lawyers)).
He did his fellowship training at the Cleveland Clinic. His malpractice premiums went up to the point where it didn't make any sense for him to work anymore.

the largest group of general surgeons in my town just got dropped by their medical malpractice carrier..this group has been in practice in this town for over fifty years, and i personally know that these guys are superb surgeons. and i live in a state where there is "no malpractice crisis", whatever that means.

tort reform? heck, (R) Arlen Specter's SON is a famous malpractice attorney in Philadelphia....

this is the last buffalo hunt....

don't go into medicine unless you want to go to school for a long time, want to work for someone else who will use you like an employee (remember - Doctors can't form unions - it illegal), enjoy getting sued, like having someone else decide what your work is worth (the goverment and HMO's), you work WILL always be worth less each year by the way, and if your lucky, you'll maybe make $100,000/year

now from where your sitting, $100,000 may seem like a lot..but after that many years of school, debt, lack of job satisfaction, long work hours...it won't seem worth it at all.

but hey what do i know? you might be right and i might be wrong.

 

[Kenazo]

become a doctor and move to canada. You'll start in the $100k (cdn) range and go up from there. And, I'm pretty sure the doctors here are in a union.

 

[phatj]

Im surprised no one here has had anything quite positive to say about becoming a doctor... perhaps I should look elsewhere (maybe I'll become a lawyer... j/k). Anymore advice/stories/experiences would be great.

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: LOLyourFace

Originally posted by: TommyVercetti
Might I suggest Pharmacy, Dentistry or Optometery?

become a vet. I hear good things about that field. good income, less anal than dealing with people if you make a mistake..

Except for the fact that it is harder to get into vet school than med school because there are so few vet schools to choose from.

 

[phatj]

Would there be a field that I would be better off in (in regards to malpractice insurance, etc etc)...
Im sure each field differs with insurance cost, stress factors, work hours, etc..
Im currently thinking about just going into engineering/business.

 

[phatj]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
become a doctor and move to canada. You'll start in the $100k (cdn) range and go up from there. And, I'm pretty sure the doctors here are in a union.

I wonder how insurance is in Canada.

 

[Shantanu]

My father is a doctor. He started out as a Pediatrician, and later did a 2 year fellowship in Allergy. I grew up living in 2 bedroom apartments. My Dad usuaully worked 7 days a week. I didn't start seeing him at home on the weekends until I was 13. He joined a group practice in 1999 (when he was 43 years old), and nowadays he makes some decent cash.

Of course, my Dad's route was a little longer than most doctor's, because he graduated from medical school in India, worked there for a few years, then worked in England for 7 years, before finally coming here. But it's still a long route.

True, in medicine you don't see the money until you're 35 (at the earliest). But if you know what you're doing (and go into the right branch), it's pretty easy to make a half million a year.

 

[kami333]

Go to Japan, my dad (anestheseologist) pays $500 a year for coverage

 

[heartsurgeon]

it's pretty easy to make a half million a year.

in what currency?

 

[dethman]

just to add my little bit...in med school most of the docs i've met are very happy with their jobs. some are not, but i would say they are definitely in the minority. take into consideration most are academic docs though.

i don't know what specialties have the lowest malpractice premiums, but i can tell you that anesthesiology and ob/gyn have the two highest.

heartsurgeon, what state do you practice in? i hope it's not pennsylvania, but that would explain a lot of the malpractice problems you have. sorry to hear about your bad experiences.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

Originally posted by: phatj
Im surprised no one here has had anything quite positive to say about becoming a doctor... perhaps I should look elsewhere (maybe I'll become a lawyer... j/k). Anymore advice/stories/experiences would be great.

This is mostly attributable to the fact that many people want to become doctors for one reason or another. It's a long and difficult process, and people should be informed of that before they commit to it. Being a doctor is probably very rewarding, and there are many positives. But the trick is that you need to find the positives out for yourself, and only through that investigative process can you understand how much crap you're willing to deal with to get it.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

I think a few ophthalmologists can make 500k/yr. Maybe some neurosurgeons too, but they can't have a life outside of medicine. Surg jobs I would estimate at about 150-300k/yr, general medicine 80-150k. Don't do it for the money.

 

[newt]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i spent 4 years at Johns Hopkins - graduated Phi Beta Kappa
i spent 4 years Univ. of Minnesota Medical School - graduated Alpha Omega Alpha (same as PBK, but in medicine)
i spent 8 years Univ. of Minnesota General Surgery Residency
i spent 3 years Mayo Clinic - thoracic and cardiovascular surgery fellowship

19 years in training after high school - top grades, top programs

i'm extremely good at what i do...i've had a great career, i've made good money, i'm really proud of what i've accomplished..BUT

my current practice sucks.. and i would never do it again..
the joy is out of medicine. it's not about science, its not about the truth, its not about helping people, its not about doing your best,
its not job security anymore.

it's all about money, and it's cutthroat and vicious. doctors hate doctors, nurses hate doctors, doctors hate nurses, doctors hate HMO's, the public at large likes doctors, but hates paying for medical care (it should be free like the internet!)

the blood sucking lawyers have convinced everyone that they can smoke, get fat, get diabetes, not exercise, end up with a hopeless situation,
and if the doctor can't miraculously make them better..it's someone's fault (someone with malpractice insurance..like a doctor..like me).
i pay nearly $50,000 a year for malpractice insurance. i've been sued 4 times in 10 years..not one of these cases has had any merit, and these cases
never went anywhere (dismissed, withdrawn), never even got to court..just an accusation that is withdrawn later...
but my malpractice premiums have doubled..because the insurance company wants to make money.

actually, malpractice is a total joke.
the lawyers make the most money
the insurance companies NEED THE LAWYERS to sue doctors, or they won't have any business,
and the lawyers who defend doctors need other lawyers to file lawsuits against doctors so they will have business.
the medical malpractice "system" is a massive multibillion $ business which benefits insurance companies, and lawyers..
it does nothing to "improve" medical care, and it rarely benefits patients..

75% of malpractice cases in my state get dismissed right off the bat (means a judge has determined that there is NO WAY a jury would find the doctor guilty under ANY circumstances)

of those that go to trial only 1 in 4 goes in favor of the plaintiff...
so a MASSIVE, not small, amount of malpractice cases are completely bogus.

this is crazy! and it's only getting worse (heck lawyers are suing over Oreo cookies, french fries and hot coffee). we are living in an insane asylum courtesy of the trial lawyers of america!

my advice..do something you really like..because there is a price to pay for becoming a doctor, and the money now is crappy and getting worse.
your mentioning money several times i your post, and i can guarantee you that what ever amount of money you may eventually make in medicine..your not going to feel that it was worth it.

and i'm in a relatively GOOD mood right now....

Thanks for your advice, was thinking to get a MD after my PhD in science, just because everyone keep telling me i am wasting my time doing science instead of something practical. I am actually pretty happy about looking for answer and truth; the life is interesting. But I know for the rest of my life i would keep wondering what it's like being a real doctor if i don't do it.

 

[SubZeroX]

oh man, hearing all this from heartsurgeon is really depressing. I'm about to finish my first semester of med school (1 last final left in Biochem). Those that say don't do it for the money are right! The kinda crap you have to go through just in med school is not worth it, not to mention it will get worst. This week I've had like maybe 10 hrs of sleep in my bed total because of finals. And I've gotta to stay up tonigt and tomorrow night for my last final. Ok, enough of my complaining.

Hey heartsurgeon, I kinda wanted to be a surgeon at first, but then I had gross anatomy and I realize I kinda sucks at it. I always get confused as to what the hell is what when i see random nerves and arteries. Is surgery anything like gross? (I hope not!)

 

[draggoon01]

aolsuxs:

What is AOA?

Alpha Omega Alpha, or "AOA," is a national medical honor society that
was founded in 1902 to promote and recognize excellence in the medical
profession. Most, although not all medical schools have a chapter of
AOA. Each school's chapter selects a small group of students to join
the society, generally in their junior or senior years. "Junior AOA
status," or being selected as a junior, is considered superior to
"senior AOA status."

In order to meet the minimum requirements of the national society,
students must be in the top 15% of their class academically, and
possess leadership and community service attributes. Academic
activities such as research, performance in clerkships and electives
and extracurricular program participation are generally included in
the selection criteria.

Individual chapters may also elect to induct outstanding alumni,
faculty and house staff to AOA. Induction ceremonies are generally
held just before graduation and are highly specific to the
individual chapters.

Having AOA on your curriculum vitae is considered an asset when applying
in the very competitive post-graduate programs such as dermatology and
surgical subspecialties.

[Maintainer's note: Stanford, the University of Connecticut, and
Harvard are the schools that do not have AOA. If you are aware of
other schools that do not have a chapter, please let me know.]

heartsurgeon:
have any thoughts on choosing prestige vs money for med school? meaning go to a more expensive prestigous school or local cheaper school? the common impression i get is that the more prestigous school is worth to give you an advantage when going into more competitive residencies. others say cost is not worth it and if you're good you'll be at the top of the less prestigous school, which should make you just as competitive as any other students. your thoughts?

and may i ask what jobs the people who have quit doctoring have gone into?

 

[Shantanu]

have any thoughts on choosing prestige vs money for med school? meaning go to a more expensive prestigous school or local cheaper school? the common impression i get is that the more prestigous school is worth to give you an advantage when going into more competitive residencies. others say cost is not worth it and if you're good you'll be at the top of the less prestigous school, which should make you just as competitive as any other students. your thoughts?

My Dad says that in 20+ years of working as a doctor, no patient has ever asked him where he went to medical school at.

If you want to get into a good residency program, make sure your class rank is high (top 1/3 to be safe). If you go to Harvard med school and have a low class rank, you're not going to get neurosurgery. Better to go to a state school and save some cash.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

If you want to do academic medicine, it's usually best to go to the most prestigious school.